Academy & U21s

[Mike E]

Do we think Nuttall may ever be suited to making the jump into the first team, even after the experiment failed last year?

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Cross and tap-in, 1-0

They don't count.

[Stuart]

Finished Joe Nuttall 4-0 Doncaster Rovers

Second half was a bit subdued. The rain didn’t help as the ball didn’t bounce properly so it looked a bit like a game of futsal. Donny player sent off about 5 minutes or so from the end. Didn’t change much.

Decent run out. Always nice to watch a Rovers side win. Very one sided contest though in truth.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Stuart

[Stuart]

20 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Do we think Nuttall may ever be suited to making the jump into the first team, even after the experiment failed last year?

I still blame Mowbray in part for that. Dropping him for Samuel first time out did him no favours. Then Samuel getting injured did nobody any favours.

Trouble is that the same is likely to happen again only now with Brereton blocking his path. If Nuttall isn’t in Rovers plans then surely he has to go on loan? I really want Nuttall to be a success at Rovers but I just don’t think he will be under Mowbray.

To be fair tough he is still only 21. Will everyone have the necessary patience?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I still blame Mowbray in part for that. Dropping him for Samuel first time out did him no favours. Then Samuel getting injured did nobody any favours.

Trouble is that the same is likely to happen again only now with Brereton blocking his path. If Nuttall isn’t in Rovers plans then surely he has to go on loan? I really want Nuttall to be a success at Rovers but I just don’t think he will be under Mowbray.

To be fair tough he is still only 21. Will everyone have the necessary patience?

I think if Samuel hadn't have got injured he would have gone out on loan. I reckon Doncaster would be first in the queue after tonight !

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I still blame Mowbray in part for that. Dropping him for Samuel first time out did him no favours. Then Samuel getting injured did nobody any favours.

Trouble is that the same is likely to happen again only now with Brereton blocking his path. If Nuttall isn’t in Rovers plans then surely he has to go on loan? I really want Nuttall to be a success at Rovers but I just don’t think he will be under Mowbray.

To be fair tough he is still only 21. Will everyone have the necessary patience?

The view within the club, as far as I can tell, is that he needs to go out on loan to toughen him up and have a run of games against more experienced defenders than is found in Under-23 football.  The injury to Samuel cost him a move in August but I believe they hope to loan him out in January.  On tonight's showing - which apart from the goals was his best display since last season - he should have no problem in finding a club.  The problem then is getting the game time he needs which is something the likes of Wharton, Platt and Hardcastle haven't managed since going out on loan.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

Do we think Nuttall may ever be suited to making the jump into the first team, even after the experiment failed last year?

I don't feel it was a completely failed experiment. At first, it went great. Didn't he score in every kind of 'debut' he had? EFL Trophy as a sub, scored. League as a sub, scored. FA Cup as a sub, scored.

I agree with Stuart, from what I recall he just got dropped prematurely when he was on fire (his all-round game wasn't quite up to scratch but he was a kid getting used to it, and still notching). He then got used sparingly and lost his momentum. I do think one of Tony's flaws is not playing in-form players at times. For me, when someone is playing hot, you've got to put them in and let the shirt be theirs to lose to someone playing hotter. And I don't care how they look in training or (to an extent) what the opposition lineup is.

I think he also stopped being in the U-23 teams didn't he? Which would only have helped him lose his form and match sharpness.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

The view within the club, as far as I can tell, is that he needs to go out on loan to toughen him up and have a run of games against more experienced defenders than is found in Under-23 football.  The injury to Samuel cost him a move in August but I believe they hope to loan him out in January.  On tonight's showing - which apart from the goals was his best display since last season - he should have no problem in finding a club.  The problem then is getting the game time he needs which is something the likes of Wharton, Platt and Hardcastle haven't managed since going out on loan.

This is exactly my worry. At least he will be getting tested in Div 1 of the reserves. Wharton will almost certainly have gone backwards in terms of his game development this season.

[Mattyblue]

Picking up on Bluebruce’s point, since getting rid of reserve teams, how many matches do non Academy fringe players play? As they usually don’t play in the under 23s.

I.e Downing, Leutweiler, even Brereton and Rothwell who only seem to get 15 minutes every (sometimes every other) week, is that optimum for keeping players sharp?

Edited December 4, 2018 by Mattyblue

[benhben]

Anyone heard how Connor Mahoney has got on since forcing a move from us last year? Not heard anything about him other than he went on loan somewhere. 

[blueboy3333]

28 minutes ago, benhben said:

Anyone heard how Connor Mahoney has got on since forcing a move from us last year? Not heard anything about him other than he went on loan somewhere. 

Not sure how often he plays but we'll see him in a couple of weeks when Brum come to town. I think he's scored at least one goal for them in the league. 

[roversoutsider]

14 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Not sure how often he plays but we'll see him in a couple of weeks when Brum come to town. I think he's scored at least one goal for them in the league. 

Anyone know how much we got for him? Or is it still at Tribunal?

Edited December 4, 2018 by roversoutsider

[benhben]

28 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Not sure how often he plays but we'll see him in a couple of weeks when Brum come to town. I think he's scored at least one goal for them in the league. 

Just had a quick look, seems he starts regularly on the left. Made 14 appearances and started the last game. Still feel a bit surprised a blackburn fan born in blackburn jumped ship at the first opportunity. He only had about 10 games under his belt with us. 

[RoverCanada]

Out of curiosity (note: I haven't checked about any possible injuries to the below):

- Scott Wharton's made 5 league starts (seems to make the bench otherwise), with 1 goal, plus 3 starts and a sub appearance in cup competition for Lincoln City so far. That's out of 19 league games and 4 cup games. Been on the bench for the last 4 league games, but has started in their FA Cup games in that time.

- Matt Platt hasn't made any league appearances for Accrington and only occasionally makes the bench. He's started in all four of their EFL Trophy and EFL Cup games, but he's been stuck on the bench for their two FA Cup games.

- Sam Hart's started 11 out of 15 league games since his arrival at Rochdale, plus starting in both their FA Cup games. Generally seems to be a regular there.

- Lewis Hardcastle has 2 starts and 4 sub appearances for Port Vale out of the 15 league games since his arrival, plus 3 EFL Trophy starts (Was on the bench for their lone FA Cup game). Seems to mostly make the bench in league play.

- Jack Doyle made 7 league starts and 2 cup appearances with Maidstone in the National League before his loan was cut short by an ankle injury.

Wharton's scant appearances is the one surprise after he seemingly was a fan favourite at Lincoln last year and set for League 1. Shame Platt doesn't appear to be getting much of a sniff at Accrington.

Forgive me for not looking into Mansell, Thompson, Byrne, or Albinson's loans. Reporting on Doyle's loan was already a stretch!

2 hours ago, roversoutsider said:

Anyone know how much we got for him? Or is it still at Tribunal?

https://www.afcb.co.uk/news/club-news/mahoney-compensation-package-finalised

£425,000 initial fee, £100,000 for hitting each of 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50 1st-team appearances (I'd guess that's league appearances only. He's only made two League Cup appearances for Bournemouth so far), £250,000 if he every makes an England appearance, and 20% of any profit on future sales.

52 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

I'm sure someone came on here claiming to be Mahoney's dad, and he got utterly defensive with any criticisim of Connor. Was he also his agent? I might be wrong, just trying to recall from a vague memory.

I recall that. So bizarre.

Edited December 4, 2018 by RoverCanada

[Stuart]

Forced a move? Laughable.

That kid loved Rovers. After being encouraged by Lambert, he was then frozen out under Coyle and by the time Mowbray got here he had already seen the writing on the wall and had a move lined up.

How well are any of the youngsters - even from Mahoney’s group - faring under Mowbray? His track record so far of developing youngsters from our own stable isn’t great.

Here are some 2018/19 senior team appearance stats (taken from transfermarkt.com):

Mahoney Age 21

15 games

14 Championship (642 mins)

1 EFL Cup (66)

(708)

Nuttall Age 21

6 games

4 Championship (117)

2 EFL (118)

(235)

Tomlinson Age 20

1 game

1 EFL Cup (9)

(9)

Travis Age 21

8 games

5 Championship (80)

3 EFL (270)

(350)

Hardcastle Age 20

Loan: Port Vale

9 games

6 L2 (197)

3 EFL trophy (244)

(441)

 

Platt Age 21

Loan: Stanley

4 EFL trophy (254)

1 EFL (90)

 

“Mercenary” Mahoney has played more first team minutes than the rest of our U23s youngsters put together. The only one who gets close is a Lewis Hardcastle playing in League 2. Connor also featured in 8 Championship games (334) last season for Barnsley while Joe managed 13 games (425) in League One.

Did he make the right move it the wrong one? It didn’t work out at Bournemouth for whatever reason but I bet he got a fantastic education working in Eddie Howe’s fold. Mowbray doesn’t even play with wingers if he can help it!

It seems that you have to leave (even on loan) to get senior game time under Mowbray. At the end of the day, that’s Tony’s prerogative - to get results for the first team. But I wouldn’t blame any youngster for putting their career and ambition first while he overlooks players - even to the point of promoting them only to demote them again as soon as others are fit. At the same time he goes out shopping for youth to go into the first team squad, Brereton, Palmer and Davenport for example.

Patience is a virtue not in great supply in football. Those knocking Mahoney need to have a re-think.

[bluebruce]

Mahoney did force a move. He was offered a contract, he refused it. We didn't want him to go, and he did.

[old darwen blue]

I bet he’s glad he followed dads advice now, not!

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Mahoney did force a move. He was offered a contract, he refused it. We didn't want him to go, and he did.

So new contracts are compulsory then? Did Shearer force a move? Hoilett? Probably hundreds of others.

Why does Mahoney get singled out for the mercenary treatment? Probably because of morons and social media.

He did absolutely the right thing in my book. Bet Nuttall wishes he hadn’t been tricked into signing a new deal.

[Mattyblue]

He’ll be on a nice PL wage whilst playing regularly in the Championship, I doubt he regrets anything...

[bluebruce]

16 hours ago, Stuart said:

So new contracts are compulsory then? Did Shearer force a move? Hoilett? Probably hundreds of others.

Why does Mahoney get singled out for the mercenary treatment? Probably because of morons and social media.

He did absolutely the right thing in my book. Bet Nuttall wishes he hadn’t been tricked into signing a new deal.

No of course they're not. Not what I said either. Yes both of those forced a move. Especially Shearer, we were desperate to keep him.

Not calling him a mercenary. But he forced a move, and probably the wrong one. I also don't consider him a proper Rovers fan to do so. But he's a professional footballer and can do what he likes, as they all do.

Give over, Nuttall's career was completely in the shitter when we got him.

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, bluebruce said:

No of course they're not. Not what I said either. Yes both of those forced a move. Especially Shearer, we were desperate to keep him.

Not calling him a mercenary. But he forced a move, and probably the wrong one. I also don't consider him a proper Rovers fan to do so. But he's a professional footballer and can do what he likes, as they all do.

Give over, Nuttall's career was completely in the shitter when we got him.

I’ve given you some researched detail which shows it wasn’t the wrong move. He is a more established Championship player than anyone Mowbray has taken a look at.

[Parsonblue]

Hugely disappointing performance in the Youth Cup last night.  Too many players were well below their best and didn't get into the game until well into the second half.  Gillingham the better team in the first half - although the penalty was a poor decision by the officials with the foul, if it was a foul, being committed just outside the area - and deserved their lead.  Second goal was poor goalkeeping and defending but after that Gillingham tired and we had enough chances to have won the game. 

No surprise it was such a low attendance on a shocking night weather wise.

[Vinjay]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Hugely disappointing performance in the Youth Cup last night.  Too many players were well below their best and didn't get into the game until well into the second half.  Gillingham the better team in the first half - although the penalty was a poor decision by the officials with the foul, if it was a foul, being committed just outside the area - and deserved their lead.  Second goal was poor goalkeeping and defending but after that Gillingham tired and we had enough chances to have won the game. 

No surprise it was such a low attendance on a shocking night weather wise.

Should have postponed at the last minute. ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Hugely disappointing performance in the Youth Cup last night.  Too many players were well below their best and didn't get into the game until well into the second half.  Gillingham the better team in the first half - although the penalty was a poor decision by the officials with the foul, if it was a foul, being committed just outside the area - and deserved their lead.  Second goal was poor goalkeeping and defending but after that Gillingham tired and we had enough chances to have won the game. 

No surprise it was such a low attendance on a shocking night weather wise.

How did the young Lithuanian that many are raving about get on? 

[Parsonblue]

26 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

How did the young Lithuanian that many are raving about get on? 

He was totally anonymous last night.  Seen him a few times when he has looked good but last night nobody played up to their normal form.