Academy & U21s

[blueboy3333]

Just now, RV Blue said:

He definitely is a no. 10, can play on the wing as well, but not sure where the Travis comparison has come from.

Me neither. I've never once read Butterworth is a CM. 

[Neal]

21 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Ajax’s CL quarter final match winner and club captain De Ligt is 19 years old, so are Buckley, Butterworth, Rankin Costello and Carter. They’re old enough Tony, show some balls and get them in the side for the run in.

People are only just hearing about him now because of how well they're doing in the CL, I've followed him since he made his debut when he was something ridiculous like 15/16 years old, he made his debut for the national team at 17 years old, starting at centre half,he had an absolute nightmare but it was valuable development experience. The earlier you blood them the earlier they will be ready for first team football and understand the demands of true competitive football. In comparison to German football and Dutch football, 21 years old isn't really that young, obviously these players at this age aren't the finished article but show a high level of maturity. 

 

The issue in English football is the money, the pressures to stay in leagues, achieve playoff or European places mean that managers don't want to take risks. Ajax being in the league they're in with only PSV to challenge them, they can afford to take risks. 

 

Rovers are in a tricky position, well the manager is anyway. The financial situation is dire, there is no point investing lots of money into the academy if we're not going to give the youth prospects game time to attach some valuations to their names. For me, the playing the youngsters is a model I can really support the manager on, throwing money at players isn't. Recruitment is important of course but in the Championship spending big is dangerous, look at Derby... 8 mill on Waghorn, 11 on Lawrence, are they really any better than Rothwell who cost a few 100k? Not for me. Same goes for Brereton. 

 

Being mathematicaly safe, I'd like to see the manager be bold and make one of the youngsters like Buckley or Butterworth captain and give them some real experience. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Neal

[Mattyblue]

QPR and Bolton are ideal games to blood a couple, both dead rubbers (I imagine Bolton will be relegated on Friday - if they can get the game on!).

Plus Chapman has surely had his in-season pre-season by now and must be on the bench at least - if not there must be something in this contract rumour.

[JacknOry]

Club captain at 19-years old...bloody hell.

[Stuart]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

I always thought Butterworth was a striker?

I meant the next Travis in terms of being young and hungry. Not position.

Let’s not forget though, Travis wasn’t a central midfielder either...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Club captain at 19-years old...bloody hell.

Wasn't Ray Wilkins captaining Chelsea at a similar age ?

[Giant]

22 hours ago, deryck guyler's spoon said:

Is Buckley ready for some more first team action do you reckon?

Definitely, looks more like a footballer than most of the other members of the team. If Mowbray is looking for players who can keep possession, then he’s the best placed young player we have......in my view anyway.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Just now, Giant said:

Definitely, looks more like a footballer than most of the other members of the team. If Mowbray is looking for players who can keep possession, then he’s the best placed young player we have......in my view anyway.

That's sort of encouraging. I remember the Academy being criticised a few years back for producing athletes instead of footballers. Is that the case with this current crop?

[oldjamfan1]

37 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Wasn't Ray Wilkins captaining Chelsea at a similar age ?

Yes he was. 

[SBlue]

3 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Club captain at 19-years old...bloody hell.

I know!

Between him and Mbappe why can't our lads play in the first team at 19!?

Nothing to do with them being two of the best players in the world...

The likes of De Ligt are certainly the exception and not the rule.

 

I thought Buckley only looked a slip of a lad at Hillsborough, Butterworth looks tiny too - think they've got enough about them physically yet for the Championship @Stuart?

[Stuart]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

I thought Buckley only looked a slip of a lad at Hillsborough, Butterworth looks tiny too - think they've got enough about them physically yet for the Championship @Stuart?

Depends where you play them. If Chapman is physically strong enough, and Conor Mahoney was then Butterworth is.

Only one way to find out.

[Neal]

3 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Club captain at 19-years old...bloody hell.

 

Niklas Sule was captain at Hoffenheim at 18 and I can think of a few other German players who were captain of their own clubs at similar ages in recent times too. 

[Oldgregg86]

Buckley for me, is technically ready for first team football and can read a game far better than Evans and Smallwood can

[RoversClitheroe]

35 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

I know!

Between him and Mbappe why can't our lads play in the first team at 19!?

Nothing to do with them being two of the best players in the world...

The likes of De Ligt are certainly the exception and not the rule.

 

I thought Buckley only looked a slip of a lad at Hillsborough, Butterworth looks tiny too - think they've got enough about them physically yet for the Championship @Stuart?

Basically sound like an old school football scout "too small etc" physicality hardly matters anymore.

[SBlue]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Basically sound like an old school football scout "too small etc" physicality hardly matters anymore.

Ha ok.

Could get a lot of money selling the gym equipment at Brockhall - good thinking.

[Neal]

1 hour ago, S8 & Blue said:

I know!

Between him and Mbappe why can't our lads play in the first team at 19!?

Nothing to do with them being two of the best players in the world...

The likes of De Ligt are certainly the exception and not the rule.

 

I thought Buckley only looked a slip of a lad at Hillsborough, Butterworth looks tiny too - think they've got enough about them physically yet for the Championship @Stuart?

Perhaps Mason Mount isn't good enough then? Perhaps Alli shouldn't have been playing for MK Dons at 16 then? Perhaps we shouldn't have taken a chance on Phil Jones? Or Derby shouldn't have given a debut to Will Hughes at 16 years old? 

 

I mean Iniesta and Xavi were tiny, perhaps they shouldn't have been given a chance? 

 

Or... 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Neal said:

Perhaps Mason Mount isn't good enough then? Perhaps Alli shouldn't have been playing for MK Dons at 16 then? Perhaps we shouldn't have taken a chance on Phil Jones? Or Derby shouldn't have given a debut to Will Hughes at 16 years old? 

 

I mean Iniesta and Xavi were tiny, perhaps they shouldn't have been given a chance? 

 

Or... 

a lot of united fans wish we didn't  

[arbitro]

Just now, Neal said:

Perhaps Mason Mount isn't good enough then? Perhaps Alli shouldn't have been playing for MK Dons at 16 then? Perhaps we shouldn't have taken a chance on Phil Jones? Or Derby shouldn't have given a debut to Will Hughes at 16 years old? 

 

I mean Iniesta and Xavi were tiny, perhaps they shouldn't have been given a chance? 

 

Or... 

And the lumbering giant Scholes? Or Sterling?

Size, like age doesn't matter.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

If you are good enough, size doesn't matter, but you have to be very good. 

I mean we can all name prodigies who started when they were 16,17 and 18, but the reality is they are in the minority. 

Buckley sounds a real prospect to be fair 

[Neal]

Just now, arbitro said:

And the lumbering giant Scholes? Or Sterling?

Size, like age doesn't matter.

 

Have you said that before? 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Neal

[arbitro]

Just now, Neal said:

Have you said that before? 

About age not size ?

[SBlue]

24 minutes ago, Neal said:

Perhaps Mason Mount isn't good enough then? Perhaps Alli shouldn't have been playing for MK Dons at 16 then? Perhaps we shouldn't have taken a chance on Phil Jones? Or Derby shouldn't have given a debut to Will Hughes at 16 years old? 

 

I mean Iniesta and Xavi were tiny, perhaps they shouldn't have been given a chance? 

 

Or... 

Mason Mount looks like Lou Ferrigno next to Buckley.

Astounding that people can name some of the best players in the country/world as an argument against questioning whether a novice, wiry lad can hold his own physically in the Championship yet or if this is an area they would like to see him improve.

Conditioning and strength is probably more important than ever in the modern game, it's quite the opposite of a Mike Bassett argument - every decent player in league football is a highly impressive athlete that would knock most of us flying. You can't just outrun, out tire or run rings round them. A central midfielder has to earn the right to play in this league and be able to hold their own on the ball in any.

Scholes was a little brick wall, Sterling one of the best athletes in world football right now. How much of a player would Dack or Graham be without their strength? Travis even is proper solid and can plow right through anyone - there is a massive difference in men's football to U23s.

"If your good enough your old enough" is a nice 70s Cloughism but you can't tell me he doesn't look a little lightweight.

I thought it was a fair question anyway...

But after that cameo at Hillsborough it seems some of you think we've got the next Messi (one of the most deceptively strong players of all time btw) and that he's the finished article of the Mbappe standard.

That's the same game where six-foot odd unit Magloire was shoulder barged about 20 feet by the Wednesday forward leading to a goal btw.

 

At least I got an answer to the question anyway! Sounds as though he's up to it.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[bluebruce]

6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Plus Chapman has surely had his in-season pre-season by now and must be on the bench at least - if not there must be something in this contract rumour.

What contract rumour is that?

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

What contract rumour is that?

The one where it costs us money if he plays this season. Read it on here somewhere?

[Neal]

4 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Mason Mount looks like Lou Ferrigno next to Buckley.

Astounding that people can name some of the best players in the country/world as an argument against questioning whether a novice, wiry lad can hold his own physically in the Championship yet or if this is an area they would like to see him improve.

Conditioning and strength is probably more important than ever in the modern game, it's quite the opposite of a Mike Bassett argument - every decent player in league football is a highly impressive athlete that would knock most of us flying. You can't just outrun, out tire or run rings round them. A central midfielder has to earn the right to play in this league and be able to hold their own on the ball in any.

Scholes was a little brick wall, Sterling one of the best athletes in world football right now. How much of a player would Dack or Graham be without their strength? Travis even is proper solid and can plow right through anyone - there is a massive difference in men's football to U23s.

"If your good enough your old enough" is a nice 70s Cloughism but you can't tell me he doesn't look a little lightweight.

I thought it was a fair question anyway...

But after that cameo at Hillsborough it seems some of you think we've got the next Messi (one of the most deceptively strong players of all time btw) and that he's the finished article of the Mbappe standard.

That's the same game where six-foot odd unit Magloire was shoulder barged about 20 feet by the Wednesday forward leading to a goal btw.

 

At least I got an answer to the question anyway! Sounds as though he's up to it.

 

 

Then what were Alli and Hughes like when making their debuts at 16? They sure weren't built like sh*t houses. We have a grade 1 academy along side some of the biggest clubs in the world, bringing through talent that's more than competing with their academies. You have to simply give these boys a chance. They won't be physically developed until they're in their 20's but physicality in modern football isn't everything, in fact it's a dying art. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Neal