[Archived] championship 14/15

[patrickvalery]

This was the season, realistically, we needed to make a managerial change. Next season is likely to be dire regardless of who is in charge. The remit will be keeping us in the division, rather than getting us into the playoffs... the question at this point should be whether Bowyer can do that with Gestede, Rhodes and King all likely out the door and replaced with players the calibre of Chris Brown.

The time for a decent pedegree manager was after Kean. That boat has sailed.

Well in fact the time for a decent pedegree manager was after Sam. But that's another story.

[Stuart]

It's all irrelevant. The club has got its hands tied. Appoint another manager of any pedegree and he'll want to build his own team. Not possible right now. So appoint someone who's happy to work with what we've got and he'll be labelled a yes man. Appoint a rookie and take the risk. What's the point when we've got a rookie who's done a decent job.

I've said it before, the big task for the club is now the long term target. Build a club with an ethos on finding, developing and blooding young talent in a system which allows them to thrive. All the while maintain a competitive first team capable of competing for promotion. For me, an ex youth team coach like Bowyer is possibly the best bet for the role. Especially considering he's done a decent job thus far with the first team.

People forget, it's hard to even do another Southampton or Swansea because the clubs coming down are richer and the clubs with aspirations of promotion weren't restricted by ffp. Like it or lump it, all things considered, our targets now are longer term.

The worry for me is who at the club is determining whether we are on the right track in that regard. Call me negativ, but im not convinced Derek Shaw is qualified to judge this.

I'm not sure I agree with that. How much gas McCarthy spent rebuilding Ipswich? And with, in my opinion, an inferior squad finished comfortably ahead of Bowyer in the playoffs.

Warburton, Karanka, and Neil all see as wild cards only credible in hindsight. Meanwhile they'd rather stick with a manager who has proven to be not good enough. McCarthy has contacts throughout the PL and has brought in some decent loans. Bowyer's contacts are at youth and reserve level. It's not rocket science to guess why we are struggling.

If Venkys won't employ better then fine but, in that case, no-one should pretend that they have the best interests of the club at heart.

[47er]

He left in the first week of September den, hardly certain relegation candidates.

We were certain relegation candidates with Souness and that squad. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

[patrickvalery]

Won't argue with that Stuart. Bowyer doesn't have the knack of building a first team like mm. But equally I'm not sure mm has the impending doom of ffp to contend with. I realise they have done it on a shoe string but Bowyer has had to actively cut budgets whilst building a side and a happier club. Our situation I imagine is much like Ipswich five years ago. Minus transfer embargoes.

Please don't think I'm saying all is rosy in the garden. But I think gb is doing OK. And I bet if anyone was in the position to ask the like of nick mccarthy what he thought about our managerial situation (off the record) I'd wager he'd say Bowyer deserves a go at it.

Edit. That's mick not nick. This predictive text is killing me.

[47er]

Don't be silly jbizzle, the folk on here know far more than someone like Souness, even if many don't even bother actually going to games

So basically you interpret Souness to be saying that it is better to stick with a failing manager than to sack him?

I can't help thinking you would be happy to stay in the Championship forever, but you do not feel the same about League 1 from reading your posts.

Is this the new stability?

[den]

We were certain relegation candidates with Souness and that squad. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

Absolutely 47er.

[roverandout]

Personally, I though Souness spoke a lot of sense yesterday when describing what's wrong with Newcastle and Sunderland, namely constantly changing managers because of crowd pressure. I must admit that I totally agree with Souness when he said the owner should appoint a manager and give him five years in the job, no matter what the fans think, in order to give him time to rebuild a club without the constant threat to his job. Bowyer has had two full seasons and maintained a decent position within the Championship when we could so easily have gone the way of Wigan and Blackpool.

Yes parson, he said give a 'manager' five years in the job, someone who probably has a track record to back that up, bowyer is not and never will be a manager, just an imposter sitting in a manager's chair, he's had more than 2 years, nearly half the five years, any progression? i think not

[Parsonblue]

Yes parson, he said give a 'manager' five years in the job, someone who probably has a track record to back that up, bowyer is not and never will be a manager, just an imposter sitting in a manager's chair, he's had more than 2 years, nearly half the five years, any progression? i think not

Matter of opinion. I believe there has been progression in terms of the development of the club on the field at all levels.

[thenodrog]

He left in the first week of September den, hardly certain relegation candidates.

They definitely had that look about em to me.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Depressing flashback of the day:

At the end of Nov with 19 games played in Champ (40% of season)-

Rovers were 6th in the league and unbeaten in 6 games.

Watford were 2 pts behind us having lost 4 on the bounce and only won 1 in 6.

Norwich were 4 pts behind having lost 3 of last 4 games and only won 1 in 6.

Both of them will be in Prem next season and we will likely all begin the season worrying about relegation to league 1.

I know they say you should never look back in life only forward, but i can't help myself. It's so frustrating. 40% of season gone and we were sat in prime position. And then it all went to crap!!

Gutted.

I imagine fans of the four clubs ahead of us then who didn't go up either are even more gutted.

[joey_big_nose]

The problem, like last season, is bowyer has neither performed well enough to get full support of fans not bad enough for the majority of fans to say he has to go. That's the reality of the situation.

People just arent going to come out in numbers to ask for him to go because while there is a general feeling we have under performed it is not considered a crisis.

It will take three or four losses in quick succession then the knives come out. It always does.

A sacking in our situation will come from the board being pro active. Sadly ours aren't.

[K-Hod]

Using FFP as an excuse when there's been 18 months of being able to wheel and deal freely.....

We haven't strengthened in the positions we needed it most, and when we have I. E. Centre mid, we've bought the same type of one paced not defensive defensive midfielders....

[matt83]

Matter of opinion. I believe there has been progression in terms of the development of the club on the field at all levels.

Progression? All levels? Finished lower down the table, fewer points, even further in debt, not allowed to strengthen squad, still don't have a board room fit for purpose. All rumours are could be without our 40 goal duo.

Just because we really want there to be progression you can't just make wild claims like that without trying to back up exactly how there's been any measurable progression

[Stuart]

Using FFP as an excuse when there's been 18 months of being able to wheel and deal freely.....

We haven't strengthened in the positions we needed it most, and when we have I. E. Centre mid, we've bought the same type of one paced not defensive defensive midfielders....

Spot on. In some ways FFP is a saving grace. I imagine it's being used a lot in India. Plus many of the excuses that we read on here. Verbatim.

[ABBEY]

progression ..2 lowest position in donkey years is not progression

[Parsonblue]

Progression? All levels? Finished lower down the table, fewer points, even further in debt, not allowed to strengthen squad, still don't have a board room fit for purpose. All rumours are could be without our 40 goal duo.

Just because we really want there to be progression you can't just make wild claims like that without trying to back up exactly how there's been any measurable progression

I see progression on the playing side at all levels and that's enough for me. Season ticket renewed and if key players leave and with the impact of the embargo I'll be more than happy with a mid-table position. We are where we are and moaning about it isn't going to change things no matter who the manager is. The Rovers are behind the eight ball and have an uphill battle on their hands in the next few years and that's the reality of the situation. It's not what anybody wants but it is what it is. Ironically, forty years or so ago, when we were fighting relegation from Division Three, we could only dream about being mid-table in the second tier of English football - but that's football, it ebbs and flows, there are good times and bad and each should be taken in its stride.

[Athlete]

Personally, I though Souness spoke a lot of sense yesterday when describing what's wrong with Newcastle and Sunderland, namely constantly changing managers because of crowd pressure. I must admit that I totally agree with Souness when he said the owner should appoint a manager and give him five years in the job, no matter what the fans think, in order to give him time to rebuild a club without the constant threat to his job. Bowyer has had two full seasons and maintained a decent position within the Championship when we could so easily have gone the way of Wigan and Blackpool.

Stop comparing us to wigan and Blackpool they're different cases Wigan are heading back where they came from without a ground they even own their dream has finished

Oyston famously has said he's not bothered if Blackpool go to the conference.

[matt83]

I see progression on the playing side at all levels and that's enough for me. Season ticket renewed and if key players leave and with the impact of the embargo I'll be more than happy with a mid-table position. We are where we are and moaning about it isn't going to change things no matter who the manager is. The Rovers are behind the eight ball and have an uphill battle on their hands in the next few years and that's the reality of the situation. It's not what anybody wants but it is what it is. Ironically, forty years or so ago, when we were fighting relegation from Division Three, we could only dream about being mid-table in the second tier of English football - but that's football, it ebbs and flows, there are good times and bad and each should be taken in its stride.

Yeah it is what it is etc and we play the cards we're dealt. But you still haven't said where any of the progression is? If you're happy fine but you cannot justify those feeling for us progressing.

I would also refute claims we've improved on the pitch (points talley/position would say we haven't). But let's gloss over that cairney and Evans have gone backwards. Hanley gone backwards. Perhaps Henley and Olsson improved but most of the rest plateaued. So progression for rovers is now defined as 2 individual players improving when everything else is falling to pieces. It's like your house burning down but celebrating saving a photo album.

Please help me understand what progression have you seen? We will all continue to go whether it's crap or otherwise but progression no way.

[dave birch]

When you have inertia and lack of enthusiasm at management level (not just GB) you'll have inertia and lack of entusiasm at the coal face.

Happens in all kinds of business.

[ABBEY]

progression = 6th in prem. Nothing less is progression.

[Stuart]

I see progression on the playing side at all levels and that's enough for me. Season ticket renewed and if key players leave and with the impact of the embargo I'll be more than happy with a mid-table position. We are where we are and moaning about it isn't going to change things no matter who the manager is. The Rovers are behind the eight ball and have an uphill battle on their hands in the next few years and that's the reality of the situation. It's not what anybody wants but it is what it is. Ironically, forty years or so ago, when we were fighting relegation from Division Three, we could only dream about being mid-table in the second tier of English football - but that's football, it ebbs and flows, there are good times and bad and each should be taken in its stride.

In football, managers live and die by results, then performances, not their relationship with stay-away owners or being a nice guy.

Results and particularly performances have been poor. The same mistakes keep being made - Lowe will be a regular starter again soon enough, possibly Hanley despite the evidence that we are better without both - and there are new excuses for failure as time passes.

The next excuse will be that we have lost our best players. You can see it coming. The problem is that much like FFP this can be mitigated against. Bring in a respected manager who will motivate and manage the players. All this Lowey and Killa and Kingy is coach-speak and isn't healthy. But nothing will change and the excuses will follow. And much like goldfish, people will buy it.

We Are Where We Are

[JBiz]

progression = 6th in prem. Nothing less is progression.

When GB took over = near championship relegation.

Now = just short of playoffs.

That's some progression, not what people might demand but it's certainly not regression.

All at the some time as huge wages being spent on players not fit for purpose. Many argue last season was our best chance, well in other ways surely the more Robinsons, Orrs and Bests we get off the wage bill, the better.

This "look what a proper manager has achieved" is only applicable if you take what actually happened to us from the equation. MM didn't have a penny to rub together but did he inherit a squad choc full of big earners who offered nothing?

FFP keeps being branded as a "convenient excuse"... If that's the case, is the debt worth ignoring?

Surely when that much money is owed, you don't need an excuse for not spending cash. Which basically completely changes this instant progression expectation many seem to expect.

[K-Hod]

Managers live and die by their results...(apart from at BRFC)

[JBiz]

Results and particularly performances have been poor. The same mistakes keep being made - Lowe will be a regular starter again soon enough, possibly Hanley despite the evidence that we are better without both - and there are new excuses for failure as time passes.

The next excuse will be that we have lost our best players. You can see it coming. The problem is that much like FFP this can be mitigated against. Bring in a respected manager who will motivate and manage the players. All this Lowey and Killa and Kingy is coach-speak and isn't healthy. But nothing will change and the excuses will follow. And much like goldfish, people will buy it.

We Are Where We Are

1. The results and performances have been inconsistent, not poor. We've played poorly as equally as we've played well hence not reaching our goals but also not ever threatened.

2. Get your head into a world where Hanley and Lowe are not just around to annoy you. They are players worthy of the cause, you might have opinions on them but I've heard many false opinions down the years- so have you. To think of them as simply played on a friends "whimsy" is fairly pathetic.

3. You have no idea how GB speaks to the squad in training, how he fights his battles, how he motivates, develops etc. It's just a personality thing you assume from interviews.

Managers live and die by their results...(apart from at BRFC)

Another with a goldfish memory

Again. Since GB took over, we are in a better position. How is that even questionable?

[matt83]

When GB took over = near championship relegation.

Now = just short of playoffs.

That's some progression, not what people might demand but it's certainly not regression.

All at the some time as huge wages being spent on players not fit for purpose. Many argue last season was our best chance, well in other ways surely the more Robinsons, Orrs and Bests we get off the wage bill, the better.

This "look what a proper manager has achieved" is only applicable if you take what actually happened to us from the equation. MM didn't have a penny to rub together but did he inherit a squad choc full of big earners who offered nothing?

FFP keeps being branded as a "convenient excuse"... If that's the case, is the debt worth ignoring?

Surely when that much money is owed, you don't need an excuse for not spending cash. Which basically completely changes this instant progression expectation many seem to expect.

Progression needs to be judged year on year. So next season will be judged in relation to this season, this season in relation to 2 seasons ago. It's how we go forward. If we always take the low point then use that as the benchmark to judge everything else forevermore we will "progress" unless we go down.

Since bowyer took over there has been an overall progression 100% but last season we went backwards. So my concern is at what point do we draw a line under small backwards steps.