[Archived] championship 14/15

[JBiz]

Progression needs to be judged year on year. So next season will be judged in relation to this season, this season in relation to 2 seasons ago. It's how we go forward. If we always take the low point then use that as the benchmark to judge everything else forevermore we will "progress" unless we go down.

Since bowyer took over there has been an overall progression 100% but last season we went backwards. So my concern is at what point do we draw a line under small backwards steps.

If we go backwards again, lower midtable- that's setting a downward trend, and I'd expect (at a normal club) that would be the time he'd go,

If we ignore debt, possibility of losing best players, costs still above earnings, inferior club management structure- I'd say GB needs playoffs next season as a minimum - another just outside would earn him another stay of execution for me if you count the other factors.

[Stuart]

2. Get your head into a world where Hanley and Lowe are not just around to annoy you. They are players worthy of the cause, you might have opinions on them but I've heard many false opinions down the years- so have you. To think of them as simply played on a friends "whimsy" is fairly pathetic.

3. You have no idea how GB speaks to the squad in training, how he fights his battles, how he motivates, develops etc. It's just a personality thing you assume from interviews.

2. These are the two most (glaringly) obvious examples. Bowyer gets credit for learning but then he demonstrates that he isn't and he's just had his hand forced through injury. Even Lowe's biggest fans think he's a squad player, not a starter. I always watch the Lowe and Hanley situation with interest. Not through hatred but as a barometer. So far Bowyer has proved he is not learning on this one.

3. You think he saves these matey names for when he's talking to the media? Really? You can take a coach out of the reserves but you can't...

We are seeing what would have happened to Sunderland if Sbragia had stayed.

[DE.]

Foresight is required to be successful in any form of business. Waiting until we're battling for our lives is a huge risk and leaves a new manager with a much harder task.

Bowyer has been unable to get anywhere with a decent squad that he has been allowed to spend a fair chunk of money on in terms of both wages and transfer fees. We've regressed this season and will regress again next season. The manager's limits have already been established and haven't changed since the day he's arrived. He's had a 20+ goals a season a striker since day one and a 40+ goal strikeforce at his disposal last season. We've never looked capable of getting close to the top 6 despite that. He's a good scout, or has good scouts available to him, but we don't need a scout as manager.

I can't accept "we are where we are" when the likes of Burnley can get promoted and Ipswich and Brentford can get into the playoffs. The failure here is undeniable and will continue to be so until we have somebody in charge who can get the best out of our team. GB has never been that man and will not be next season either.

[matt83]

If we go backwards again, lower midtable- that's setting a downward trend, and I'd expect (at a normal club) that would be the time he'd go,

If we ignore debt, possibility of losing best players, costs still above earnings, inferior club management structure- I'd say GB needs playoffs next season as a minimum - another just outside would earn him another stay of execution for me if you count the other factors.

This is our problem not being a normal club it all goes back to our regal owners. If we lost Gestede and Rhodes I would not expect playoffs next season and would judge relative success accordingly. And should we lose them both through no fault of bowyer ironically I would say lower that where we finished is realistic.

However, as far as season just gone goes any team with 40 goals in their front 2 should be challenging for automatic promotion. Really should be in the play offs but as a very very minimum at least challenging for the playoffs. For other than a fortnight we never even challenged so for me last season in that respect was a disaster. And as a result bowyer is lucky to be in a job.

[JBiz]

2. These are the two most (glaringly) obvious examples. Bowyer gets credit for learning but then he demonstrates that he isn't and he's just had his hand forced through injury. Even Lowe's biggest fans think he's a squad player, not a starter. I always watch the Lowe and Hanley situation with interest. Not through hatred but as a barometer. So far Bowyer has proved he is not learning on this one.

3. You think he saves these matey names for when he's talking to the media? Really? You can take a coach out of the reserves but you can't...

We are seeing what would have happened to Sunderland if Sbragia had stayed.

Bowyer gets credit for learning.... I'm sure he's made up. I just can't fathom how you seem to think that your opinion on footy and scouting ability is that of the next Jimmy Grimble

A team is a squad. 2 players fighting for every position is the way forward for winning stuff these days, evidenced by 4 teams exclusively winning titles for 20 years.

I'm sure you know that there is a lot more broken at Ewood, but yet you'd ignore that to spend an evening cursing a players inclusion in the team.

We are seeing what happens when you let agents suck the life out of the club and leave a management void. Chaos.

But do carry on, I'm sure people are enjoying the home grown player scapegoating. (Cuts to 2016, that Darragh is a right keanhouse)

[ABBEY]

When GB took over = near championship relegation....WHEN VENKYS TOOK OVER -8TH IN PREM

Now = just short of playoffs....A LONG WAY OFF PLAY OFFS

That's some progression, not what people might demand but it's certainly not regression... PROGRESSION = 6/7TH IN PREM

All at the some time as huge wages being spent on players not fit for purpose. Many argue last season was our best chance, well in other ways surely the more Robinsons, Orrs and Bests we get off the wage bill, the better... PAYING PEANUTS GET MONKEYS

This "look what a proper manager has achieved" is only applicable if you take what actually happened to us from the equation. MM didn't have a penny to rub together but did he inherit a squad choc full of big earners who offered nothing?...IF BOREYA HAD BALLS IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IMO

FFP keeps being branded as a "convenient excuse"... If that's the case, is the debt worth ignoring?...WHERE DID FFP STEM FROM? GB HAD TIME BEFORE FFP

Surely when that much money is owed, you don't need an excuse for not spending cash. Which basically completely changes this instant progression expectation many seem to expect...SEE ABOVE

#VENKYSOUT

[Mercer]

When you have inertia and lack of enthusiasm at management level (not just GB) you'll have inertia and lack of entusiasm at the coal face.

Happens in all kinds of business.

IMV, add to that incompetence and a dumbing down of key staff within the football structure and you have a recipe for disaster.

I think Rovers playing at Pleasington in 10 years time with Parsonblue, Chaddy and a handful of other supporters on the touchline touchline is not too implausible - 'Gaz', made for life, could be soaking up the rays in a sumptuous villa somewhere without a care in the world.

[JBiz]

In reply to Abbey;

place both years off playoffs.

You'd rather pay best 35k a week to sit on bench?

How do you finish 7th in prem if you start the season in champ?

Boreya(oh look you did a funny) had balls? How do you know? Are the rumours true?

Yea we had time before FFP but what about this debt we "have our head in sand" about?

You can't have it both ways- you where convinced we where going in admin, and now FFP is a convenient excuse for not spending millions?

Jeez.

[Stuart]

Bowyer gets credit for learning.... I'm sure he's made up. I just can't fathom how you seem to think that your opinion on footy and scouting ability is that of the next Jimmy Grimble

A team is a squad. 2 players fighting for every position is the way forward for winning stuff these days, evidenced by 4 teams exclusively winning titles for 20 years.

I'm sure you know that there is a lot more broken at Ewood, but yet you'd ignore that to spend an evening cursing a players inclusion in the team.

We are seeing what happens when you let agents suck the life out of the club and leave a management void. Chaos.

But do carry on, I'm sure people are enjoying the home grown player scapegoating. (Cuts to 2016, that Darragh is a right keanhouse)

You've completely ignored the point I was making. Did you even read the post before clicking reply?

Just imagine Rovers with upgrades on Bowey, Lowey and Hanley. Could it be magic?

[Damien]

I think it's a tough one to call with bowyer.

Taking over a club that had been through what rovers have is a difficult job for the most experienced manager... He kept us up and pushed on for a season... And for that I am grateful. This year has appeared a little less impressive and it has frustrated all rovers fans.

To judge him is not fair... This has been a weird season overall but the teams that deserved to go up, did!

As far as him learning... It's hit and miss, one game he looks to have learnt something and plays the right team and formation... Then the next game it's clueless rovers!

What doesn't help any manager is the number of injuries we have all the time... That really needs addressing. To have any sort of form or cohesion you need to have an established starting 11!

I know the embargo is a real problem now but has bowyer said months ago, rovers have been operating as though they're in an embargo for ages in order to comply with FFP!

Do I want us to have an experienced manager that'll get us promoted? Of course!

Do I want to risk effing up any chances of promotion by rolling the dice and taking a chance? Not really!

At least not yet.

If someone like Big Sam wanted the job then maybe we should go for it...

But let's wait and see.

[Stuart]

I think it's a tough one to call with bowyer.

Taking over a club that had been through what rovers have is a difficult job for the most experienced manager... He kept us up and pushed on for a season... And for that I am grateful. This year has appeared a little less impressive and it has frustrated all rovers fans.

To judge him is not fair... This has been a weird season overall but the teams that deserved to go up, did!

As far as him learning... It's hit and miss, one game he looks to have learnt something and plays the right team and formation... Then the next game it's clueless rovers!

What doesn't help any manager is the number of injuries we have all the time... That really needs addressing. To have any sort of form or cohesion you need to have an established starting 11!

I know the embargo is a real problem now but has bowyer said months ago, rovers have been operating as though they're in an embargo for ages in order to comply with FFP!

Do I want us to have an experienced manager that'll get us promoted? Of course!

Do I want to risk effing up any chances of promotion by rolling the dice and taking a chance? Not really!

At least not yet.

If someone like Big Sam wanted the job then maybe we should go for it...

But let's wait and see.

A strong defence for status quo but not a single line that mentions any of Bowyer's merits.

To sum up:

"Bowyer is not Kean."

"It could be worse."

In fact, I think I've just summed up every defence of him ever made on this messageboard!

[Athlete]

I think it's a tough one to call with bowyer.

Taking over a club that had been through what rovers have is a difficult job for the most experienced manager... He kept us up and pushed on for a season... And for that I am grateful. This year has appeared a little less impressive and it has frustrated all rovers fans.

To judge him is not fair... This has been a weird season overall but the teams that deserved to go up, did!

As far as him learning... It's hit and miss, one game he looks to have learnt something and plays the right team and formation... Then the next game it's clueless rovers!

What doesn't help any manager is the number of injuries we have all the time... That really needs addressing. To have any sort of form or cohesion you need to have an established starting 11!

I know the embargo is a real problem now but has bowyer said months ago, rovers have been operating as though they're in an embargo for ages in order to comply with FFP!

Do I want us to have an experienced manager that'll get us promoted? Of course!

Do I want to risk effing up any chances of promotion by rolling the dice and taking a chance? Not really!

At least not yet.

If someone like Big Sam wanted the job then maybe we should go for it...

But let's wait and see.

We've had this wait and see before give it till Xmas etc.. If a move is going to be made do it now and give a new guy with his own backroom team a full preseason where all the squad starts with a clean slate

[K-Hod]

Fortune favours the brave, we rarely go for the jugular in games, and when we do, we look a threat!! How strange...

Joe- you know as well as I do that I've got a long memory, but as another poster said: progress is measure season by season. We've not progressed from the season before.

[Damien]

A strong defence for status quo but not a single line that mentions any of Bowyer's merits.

To sum up:

"Bowyer is not Kean."

"It could be worse."

In fact, I think I've just summed up every defence of him ever made on this messageboard!

His merits are:

Firstly he kept us up! (Plus)

Second season challenge for playoffs (Plus)

Brought in some good players like Gestede (Plus)

Created a sense of calmness in the squad and in stands (Plus)

All these are huge and he deserves credit.

I cannot deny that at all, nor can anyone else!

[JBiz]

If you scorn any positive your bound to see it that way. Since GB took over Appleton, I've seen an improvement in playing staff, tactics, attitude, transfer policy, club PR, academy results but mainly - results and league position.

He took over when the club was heading downwards and since then we've improvement to mid-table.

That's yesterday Stuart, I'll give you two chances to ignore it.

Fortune favours the brave, we rarely go for the jugular in games, and when we do, we look a threat!! How strange...

Joe- you know as well as I do that I've got a long memory, but as another poster said: progress is measure season by season. We've not progressed from the season before.

I'm not talking about his tactics Kenny, end of the day that's a different discussion.

We may not have progressed last season but to say he keeps his job despite results is suggesting that results where poor, which is only half true as we where inconsistent.

Aka- short memory. We've hardly gone massively backwards in a season... There was on manager we had who did that and kept his job..

[Damien]

Bowyer hasn't messed up... Yet and to sack him now may send out a wrong signal.

If by October rovers are struggling it would be fair to look for a replacement. But whoever comes in has no money and nothing significant they can do to the team.

To replace staff it'll cost money... Money we need to save to stand a chance of complying with FFP!

After the embargo is lifted we should bring in a new manager if that is want the owners want and then go for it!

For now I'll be down at ewood cheering on whoever pulls on the blue and white jersey!

[ABBEY]

In reply to Abbey;

place both years off playoffs.

You'd rather pay best 35k a week to sit on bench?

How do you finish 7th in prem if you start the season in champ?

Boreya(oh look you did a funny) had balls? How do you know? Are the rumours true?

Yea we had time before FFP but what about this debt we "have our head in sand" about?

You can't have it both ways- you where convinced we where going in admin, and now FFP is a convenient excuse for not spending millions?

Jeez.

JEEZ ..HEAD IN SAND .

[thenodrog]

The problem, like last season, is bowyer has neither performed well enough to get full support of fans not bad enough for the majority of fans to say he has to go. That's the reality of the situation.

People just arent going to come out in numbers to ask for him to go because while there is a general feeling we have under performed it is not considered a crisis.

It will take three or four losses in quick succession then the knives come out. It always does.

A sacking in our situation will come from the board being pro active. Sadly ours aren't.

If I was Bowyer or his agent and any half decent club came a' courting I'd be outta here asap. Our job requirement is now not for a football manager but for a suicide jockey.

When he does go and we see the options to replace him come forward there will be many posters whose position on here will suddenly become untenable (rem the Keanteen groupie Braddock / Braddup? Sunk without trace.). Some people simply cannot see the wood for the trees. Until the embargo is lifted we are goosed, even then we are still carrying a massive and unworkeable debt. In effect to the rest of football we are a leper club, a basket case.

[thenodrog]

JEEZ ..HEAD IN SAND .

Abbey (patient sigh) Many might direct exactly the same comment toward you regarding your continued calls for 'venkys out' .

Q. Just suppose that one day soon the venkys do up sticks and walk away and leave you in charge ...... what then?

[ABBEY]

What if they leave and nothing is salvageable ? What would you do?

[47er]

I think it's a tough one to call with bowyer.

Taking over a club that had been through what rovers have is a difficult job for the most experienced manager... He kept us up and pushed on for a season... And for that I am grateful. This year has appeared a little less impressive and it has frustrated all rovers fans.

To judge him is not fair... This has been a weird season overall but the teams that deserved to go up, did!

As far as him learning... It's hit and miss, one game he looks to have learnt something and plays the right team and formation... Then the next game it's clueless rovers!

What doesn't help any manager is the number of injuries we have all the time... That really needs addressing. To have any sort of form or cohesion you need to have an established starting 11!

I know the embargo is a real problem now but has bowyer said months ago, rovers have been operating as though they're in an embargo for ages in order to comply with FFP!

Do I want us to have an experienced manager that'll get us promoted? Of course!

Do I want to risk effing up any chances of promotion by rolling the dice and taking a chance? Not really!

At least not yet.

If someone like Big Sam wanted the job then maybe we should go for it...

But let's wait and see.

Wait and see is what we do alright.

[thenodrog]

C'mon abbey. Evasive tactic to ask a question rather than answer a question. You've banged on about VENKYS OUT for ages. You must have thought 'what then'? You simply must have a game plan.

tbh You're question to me imo is very close to the one I asked you. If the debt is on the club then there is nothing salvageable which can repay that amount of money. So where would YOU go from there?

[Stuart]

His merits are:

Firstly he kept us up! (Plus)

Second season challenge for playoffs (Plus)

Brought in some good players like Gestede (Plus)

Created a sense of calmness in the squad and in stands (Plus)

All these are huge and he deserves credit.

I cannot deny that at all, nor can anyone else!

Good attempt, and I don't disagree. Though the first two are in the past, and show that he certainly turned a corner for us. Although nearly making the play-offs isn't 'huge'. He is a safe pair of hands and, like Tony Parkes, could have made himself a very welcome caretaker.

His record on bringing in players is very mixed although he has spent quite well. His free transfers though are, by and large, very poor. He cannot develop a flair/exciting player and Judge, Rochina and now King are gone or going. Even Dunn appears to have been out of favour. One suspects that is due to the tendency to take the game to the opposition rather than cherishing the 0-0. He is definitely not a man who can operate under FFP. His loans are very mixed, he doesn't appear to have the contacts necessary to bring in the kinds of players who can improve our team, and aside from the lad from West Ham (who lasted less than a couple of games under Rovers' training/fitness/pitch regime) have not been of great quality.

Your last point is interesting. The sense of calmness. There is more of a sense of calm around the place, I grant you, but I believe this is more to do with the owners being silent, and the Singh-Shaw sideshow ending, with Agnew also no longer part of the board set up. Although Kean and Co caused our problems, much of the mess was down to off-the-field antics. Bowyer is a very calm, measured guy - most of the time - but he has benefited from the situation more than created it. The chaos before his tenure is also his crutch and it's the first line of defence that his supporters use.

I have to laugh though at the contradiction from some on here though (not you) that we should all be grateful that Bowyer has brought us stability and made us more normal. But with that normalcy comes the same pressure as normal clubs. But as soon as they criticise about normal stuff like results and performances, we are back to "have you forgotten Kean??". I wonder just how long that will continue to be allowed to excuse mediocrity?

[perthblue02]

His merits are:

Firstly he kept us up! (Plus)

Second season challenge for playoffs (Plus)

Brought in some good players like Gestede (Plus)

Created a sense of calmness in the squad and in stands (Plus)

All these are huge and he deserves credit.

I cannot deny that at all, nor can anyone else!

We only dropped into a relegation spot once in that season, during GB's second spell as caretaker (last 9 games) It could be argued (through gritted teeth) that our early season form saved us from relegation, so should we be praising Kean as well as Bowyer for his first caretaker spell?

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2012-2013

[ABBEY]

C'mon abbey. Evasive tactic to ask a question rather than answer a question. You've banged on about VENKYS OUT for ages. You must have thought 'what then'? You simply must have a game plan.

tbh You're question to me imo is very close to the one I asked you. If the debt is on the club then there is nothing salvageable which can repay that amount of money. So where would YOU go from there?

it would not fall to me ..better qualified people than me would sort out the admin. If you could see my account its run worse than venkys.

Admin would be possible ,how many teams have come through admin. But if you have your u turn love in with the " slumdogs"( you gave em that name ) then how much debt will they rack up before liquidation happens . Said til im blue in the face ,id rather start agin now with whatever than in two/three years with nothing but liquidation.