[Archived] championship 14/15

[Damien]

We only dropped into a relegation spot once in that season, during GB's second spell as caretaker (last 9 games) It could be argued (through gritted teeth) that our early season form saved us from relegation, so should we be praising Kean as well as Bowyer for his first caretaker spell?

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2012-2013

Interesting stats there and more importantly it's strange how memory can skew ones perception.

I hadn't realised how much I had changed the events of that season in my own mind!

[Stuart]

We only dropped into a relegation spot once in that season, during GB's second spell as caretaker (last 9 games) It could be argued (through gritted teeth) that our early season form saved us from relegation, so should we be praising Kean as well as Bowyer for his first caretaker spell?

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/2012-2013

Just think if we had had a decent manager with the squad at the start of that season. We'd have done a Newcastle or Norwich for sure.

[joey_big_nose]

If I was Bowyer or his agent and any half decent club came a' courting I'd be outta here asap. Our job requirement is now not for a football manager but for a suicide jockey.

When he does go and we see the options to replace him come forward there will be many posters whose position on here will suddenly become untenable (rem the Keanteen groupie Braddock / Braddup? Sunk without trace.). Some people simply cannot see the wood for the trees. Until the embargo is lifted we are goosed, even then we are still carrying a massive and unworkeable debt. In effect to the rest of football we are a leper club, a basket case.

Agreed. I would say there is more chance of Bowyer jumping ship than him getting sacked. Someone will make him a decent offer at some point and that club will not have ffp to contend with.

Considering how terrible the situation is we are quite lucky to have him. A established manager would have got out earlier. Why soldier on with a club with one hand tied behind its back by ffp, a totally incompetent board and terible absentee owners?

A lot of people are kidding themselves with who we can attract.

[Stuart]

If I was Bowyer or his agent and any half decent club came a' courting I'd be outta here asap. Our job requirement is now not for a football manager but for a suicide jockey.

When he does go and we see the options to replace him come forward there will be many posters whose position on here will suddenly become untenable (rem the Keanteen groupie Braddock / Braddup? Sunk without trace.). Some people simply cannot see the wood for the trees. Until the embargo is lifted we are goosed, even then we are still carrying a massive and unworkeable debt. In effect to the rest of football we are a leper club, a basket case.

Another strawman argument. No clubs are coming in for him, let alone a half decent one. His next job will be - at best - League One and - most likely - back as a coach somewhere. Still he's better than Kean. He had to go to a footballing backwater!

[West Yorks Rover]

When GB took over = near championship relegation.

Now = just short of playoffs.

That's some progression, not what people might demand but it's certainly not regression.

All at the some time as huge wages being spent on players not fit for purpose. Many argue last season was our best chance, well in other ways surely the more Robinsons, Orrs and Bests we get off the wage bill, the better.

This "look what a proper manager has achieved" is only applicable if you take what actually happened to us from the equation. MM didn't have a penny to rub together but did he inherit a squad choc full of big earners who offered nothing?

FFP keeps being branded as a "convenient excuse"... If that's the case, is the debt worth ignoring?

Surely when that much money is owed, you don't need an excuse for not spending cash. Which basically completely changes this instant progression expectation many seem to expect.

Just short of play-offs ?

I wouldn't call 11 points and only breaking into the top 6 for a few hours just short.

Besides we're now going backwards, only 2 points off last season.

[thenodrog]

Another strawman argument. No clubs are coming in for him, let alone a half decent one. His next job will be - at best - League One and - most likely - back as a coach somewhere. Still he's better than Kean. He had to go to a footballing backwater!

That 'argument' is simply my opinion based on logic and what I believe to be the reality of the situation.

Just short of play-offs ?

I wouldn't call 11 points and only breaking into the top 6 for a few hours just short.

Besides we're now going backwards, only 2 points off last season.

I'm tempted to say wait till you see how we fare next season.

[DE.]

Indeed. This season is likely to look incredible in comparison.

[Stuart]

Would avoiding relegation next season be viewed as further regression or success due to the embargo?

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Would avoiding relegation next season be viewed as further regression or success due to the embargo?

Can't wait to give it a reet good go, without Rudy, but I'll be there! If Gazza stays, it's Groundhog Day?

[DE.]

Watford set to sack their manager again... they don't mess around, do they?

[LewisF]

It's like us in 12/13. To a lesser extent.

[Damien]

If Watford are sacking their manager then how is Watford closing in on a deal to secure Gestede's services???

Tabloid trash!

Wouldn't even wipe my arse with it!

[chaddyrovers]

If Watford are sacking their manager then how is Watford closing in on a deal to secure Gestede's services???

Tabloid trash!

Wouldn't even wipe my arse with it!

Watford current head coach contract run out this summer.

Watford have a director of football/head coach structure so it doesn't matter who the head coach is.

[Stuart]

Watford have a director of football/head coach structure so it doesn't matter who the head coach is.

Is that your opinion or what you think Watford think?

[chaddyrovers]

Is that your opinion or what you think Watford think?

Luke Dowling is Sporting Director there. He was at Blackburn Rovers under Appleton as Chief Scout.

Watford believe in that kind of structure. Been in place since the Pozzo's family bought the club.

[RevidgeBlue]

Watford current head coach contract run out this summer.

Watford have a director of football/head coach structure so it doesn't matter who the head coach is.

They've just mentioned this on Talk Sport. The problem appears to be that the manager asked for a 250% pay rise but the commentators were saying he was on a ridiculously low deal to start with so going from say 100k p.a. to 350 k is really by no means unreasonable.

It's obviously a ludicrous comment to say it doesn't matter who the manager/head coach is. Whether Watford as a Club think that I've no idea but if they do, more fool them.

[DE.]

Surely if Watford appoint Flores he'll be asking for a hell of a lot more than Jokanovic was?

[Athlete]

Watford current head coach contract run out this summer.

Watford have a director of football/head coach structure so it doesn't matter who the head coach is.

That structure doesn't work in the UK it's doomed to fail.. Can see Watford coming straight back down IMO

Watford though had the nucleus of a very good side and ticked no matter who was in charge but next season is a whole new ball game where they'll find life a lot more difficult

Think you'll find it does matter even on the continent where that's the case the head coach has to be more than that

The manager should manage not be a coach.. Oh hang on

[chaddyrovers]

Southampton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke, WBA,and Watford who have director of football and manager/head coach who are in the PL.

Championship teams who have that structure are:-

Derby, Brentford, Leeds, Huddersfield, QPR and Fulham.

[tomphil]

Directors of football have been around for a while in England and it doesn't always mean they work the same way as say Watford do. The British version of that structure has in the past been quite different to the foreign style in most cases. Definitely seems to be more of a move to a continental approach becoming more common. Not sure on it myself as I reckon it just plays even more into agents hands. Chairmen, DOF and anyone and everyone moving players in and out of clubs often to benefit themselves % wise whilst the head coach hardly has a say who he actually wants for his team.

[Athlete]

Southampton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke, WBA,and Watford who have director of football and manager/head coach who are in the PL.

Championship teams who have that structure are:-

Derby, Brentford, Leeds, Huddersfield, QPR and Fulham.

A manager at a club with a director of football or sporting director is a different concept chaddy.. Remember when king Kenny had that sporting role..

Mark Hughes for one certainly doesn't work under the Watford or continental style

Out of all those clubs you've googled apart from Watford

Brentford are along the continental lines and god knows about Leeds there under the mad Italian so anything goes on at that basket case club

[joey_big_nose]

Would avoiding relegation next season be viewed as further regression or success due to the embargo?

Good question.

For the owners anything less than playoffs is total and utter abject failure - they put us in this terrible financial and league position through incompetance. To be honest if they could be sacked they would have been sacked 3 years ago.. They are the root of the problem, not Bowyer.

For Bowyer - near relgation unacceptable. Even if we lose Gestede, King and Rhodes we have good enough resources to come lower mid table. If we lost those three and cannot replace due to ffp then coming around twelth looks a realistic target. If we can keep them or replace with equivalent then playoffs is what we need.

The world we are in...

If we have someone decent lined up than I'm all for a giving that a shot but

1) I don't think anyone decent will want the gig under ffp

2) I don't think Venkys have the wherewithal to line anyone up

3) Even if they have I consider their judgement so bad it will be someone terrible

I know it all sounds very defeatist but what else can I think with the evidence we have seen from our owners?

It would be madness for me to protest for Bowyer to go when I think it will put the club in a worse position.

[patrickvalery]

edit

[thenodrog]

Mark Hughes for one certainly doesn't work under the Watford or continental style

b

That would be the most insane move anybody could make.

[thenodrog]

Would avoiding relegation next season be viewed as further regression or success due to the embargo?

Definitely a success! Starting a season under an embargo that will see the best players leaving and being replaced by poorer ones is like being a boxer with one hand tied behind ones back. In football terms its probably worse than beginning a season with a 10 point deduction.