[Archived] Season tickets again!

[Al]

I think you really do just like arguing for the sake of it. :-). Can we leave it there or it'll get into another of those tedious things that clog up the message board nowadays

Sure. I never meant to upset anyone in the first place. Certainly not you Gumboots. I have a lot of respect for you and didn't feel like it was arguing to me.

[gumboots]

No perhaps it wasnt but it could get that way. I assure you that if I don't renew it's not about prem or non prem, it's about retirement and travel and visiting kids and so on. I'll still be there and if a season ticket works out better economically I'll get one of those. But I'm not rushing. I need to see what's what first

[thenodrog]

Dunno how serious some are about quitting but to put it lightly afterv reading this I can't see numbers increasing thats for sure!

On the plus side we have approx 10,000 unpaid salesmen of one degree or another, so it's high time we utilised them!

[mhead]

Its Ok Gordon these are not the 'core' support on here - a lot prefer sitting on their bum tapping away on't internet.

[Rover_Shaun]

Are you condescending?

Do you have an over inflated opinion of your own self worth?

Then......

[K-Hod]

Or we could all sit in a darkened room and listen to 'Heaven knows I'm miserable now' on a loop.

Pretty pathetic that people are being criticised for going to watch the team everyone says they support on here.....

[Rover_Shaun]

Nobodies criticising people for going K-Hod. How can you be so wildly off the point??

It's the tone aimed at the fans who are in a quandary. So some fans have had enough for now. I'm sure they have wrestled with the decision for a while. It's not a willy waving competition (as you said on another topic) to see who's got the biggest resistance to seeing their club unnecessarily dragged further and further down for no reason. If people have had enough then that's their prerogative but it's sure as bloody hell a far far bigger issue than merely losing Premier league status.

[K-Hod]

Nobodies criticising people for going K-Hod. How can you be so wildly off the point??

It's the tone aimed at the fans who are in a quandary. So some fans have had enough for now. I'm sure they have wrestled with the decision for a while. It's not a willy waving competition (as you said on another topic) to see who's got the biggest resistance to seeing their club unnecessarily dragged further and further down for no reason. If people have had enough then that's their prerogative but it's sure as bloody hell a far far bigger issue than merely losing Premier league status.

I'm just getting hacked off with this gaff, it was probably apparent!! I get very irritated when people say it's simply a matter of relegation and people not wanting to watch PL football- wrong. It's far too simplistic to compare it to any other era in the club's history imo.

It's the club being run by shysters, being in millions of debt, the regular losses, the downgrading of the playing squad, the owners, the lies, the lack of communication with the fans, the poor organisation from top to bottom, a PNE incumbent being the chairman, I could go on. The ownership and governance of the club is at an all time low, and I completely understand why anyone wouldn't want to go, the football has been very dull and unimaginative for a while, and the atmosphere non-existent as well. When money is tight for a lot of people, despite tickets being very cheap, so is the product.

[Waggy76]

I'm just getting hacked off with this gaff, it was probably apparent!! I get very irritated when people say it's simply a matter of relegation and people not wanting to watch PL football- wrong. It's far too simplistic to compare it to any other era in the club's history imo.

It's the club being run by shysters, being in millions of debt, the regular losses, the downgrading of the playing squad, the owners, the lies, the lack of communication with the fans, the poor organisation from top to bottom, a PNE incumbent being the chairman, I could go on. The ownership and governance of the club is at an all time low, and I completely undersatand why anyone wouldn't want to go, the football has been very dull and unimaginative for a while, and the atmosphere non-existent as well. When money is tight for a lot of people, despite tickets being very cheap, so is the product.

I 100% agree.....

[Parsonblue]

Nobodies criticising people for going K-Hod. How can you be so wildly off the point??

It's the tone aimed at the fans who are in a quandary. So some fans have had enough for now. I'm sure they have wrestled with the decision for a while. It's not a willy waving competition (as you said on another topic) to see who's got the biggest resistance to seeing their club unnecessarily dragged further and further down for no reason. If people have had enough then that's their prerogative but it's sure as bloody hell a far far bigger issue than merely losing Premier league status.

What I really don't understand Shaun, and it's a serious question not in anyway an attempt at knocking you or anyone who isn't going, is how people expect the club to move forward if they boycott it. It's not a new thing, the same thing happened in the late sixties and into the early seventies - with local ownership not Venkys. As the club's fortunes fell on the pitch so did the attendances. Indeed, in comparison with those days the present attendances are holding up exceptionally well.

However, surely the time a club needs it's supporters is when times are tough not when there are queues all around the block to get in. FFP, whether we like it or not, means clubs have to become self sufficient which, in the case of the Rovers, is always going to put them at a disadvantage with the bigger clubs in this division who can get large attendances paying higher ticket prices. Whilst I appreciate that some can never accept a club under Venky ownership, although I believe they are all that is keeping the club from total collapse, at the end of the day the owners, manager, players, administrators etc are irrelevant to a certain extent as long as the club survives. Everyone else, even supporters are ultimately temporary, but the club has endured since 1875 and will hopefully continue to do so for another hundred years. However, if it's supporters opt to walk away then surely that future is put in doubt is it not?

[ABBEY]

How many millions in debt and transfer embargoes will it take for you to think total collapse ?

[onlyonejackwalker]

Dunno how serious some are about quitting but to put it lightly afterv reading this I can't see numbers increasing thats for sure!

On the plus side we have approx 10,000 unpaid salesmen of one degree or another, so it's high time we utilised them!

Have made this point many times and have employed the strategy to good effect within another club. The most powerful promotional tool available is word of mouth and personal recommendation. We have an army of fans that if educated, engaged, involved and respected would happily wax lyrical about the the club without prompting to all and sundry. Marketing data roughly suggests that if you have a positive experience with a company or organisation you may tell 6 or 7 people but if you have a negative experience you may report this to up to 30 people. Its fair to say that many have been speaking negatively about the Rovers this last few years and the challenge for our current marketing departmnent is to not only reverse that trend but start generating some positive promotion. Season ticket holders would be my starting point in that event.

I'm just getting hacked off with this gaff, it was probably apparent!! I get very irritated when people say it's simply a matter of relegation and people not wanting to watch PL football- wrong. It's far too simplistic to compare it to any other era in the club's history imo.

It's the club being run by shysters, being in millions of debt, the regular losses, the downgrading of the playing squad, the owners, the lies, the lack of communication with the fans, the poor organisation from top to bottom, a PNE incumbent being the chairman, I could go on. The ownership and governance of the club is at an all time low, and I completely undersatand why anyone wouldn't want to go, the football has been very dull and unimaginative for a while, and the atmosphere non-existent as well. When money is tight for a lot of people, despite tickets being very cheap, so is the product.

Well said. When relegated under Uncle Jack, there was a feeling of lasting sadness for our benefactor (who can forget him crying on the big screen), personal sadness as a fan (gutted) and annoyance and frustration at the under-performing players (many donkeys bought for massive money)....but the over-riding feeling was that we would fight back, that everything would be done to get us back up, that we remained a close knit team and club and although suffering that we retained our pride, strength, dignity and standing.

Compare that to the knowledge this time round that total systers were in charge and that we may never go back up and may be marooned at this level or lower for years.

Losing our fan base has little to do with PL glory and has much more to do with common sense, honesty and decency. The Rovers have always had their share of idiots following the club, but the vast majority, often silent, are decent folk who feel very badly mistreated by the club this last 3 or 4 years or so.

[onlyonejackwalker]

What I really don't understand Shaun, and it's a serious question not in anyway an attempt at knocking you or anyone who isn't going, is how people expect the club to move forward if they boycott it. It's not a new thing, the same thing happened in the late sixties and into the early seventies - with local ownership not Venkys. As the club's fortunes fell on the pitch so did the attendances. Indeed, in comparison with those days the present attendances are holding up exceptionally well.

However, surely the time a club needs it's supporters is when times are tough not when there are queues all around the block to get in. FFP, whether we like it or not, means clubs have to become self sufficient which, in the case of the Rovers, is always going to put them at a disadvantage with the bigger clubs in this division who can get large attendances paying higher ticket prices. Whilst I appreciate that some can never accept a club under Venky ownership, although I believe they are all that is keeping the club from total collapse, at the end of the day the owners, manager, players, administrators etc are irrelevant to a certain extent as long as the club survives. Everyone else, even supporters are ultimately temporary, but the club has endured since 1875 and will hopefully continue to do so for another hundred years. However, if it's supporters opt to walk away then surely that future is put in doubt is it not?

The current owners have put the clubs future in doubt, not the fans, aided and abetted by the total ninkampoops complaining from the stands that made it far too easy for them to get rid of Allardyce.

However I do take your point. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, should all and sundry withdraw their support then the club will inevitably die. I wonder at your hope of truly being self-sufficient as the maths simply do not add up, but maybe someone somewhere has a cunning plan and all will be fine in the end.

[Rover_Shaun]

It's a hard one Parson and I think time will be the clubs friend in terms of natural fan turnover. The longer the time the less relevant the owners will become. Just like the issues in the 60s became irrelevant as fans died off and new one’s were born. Circa 13K will be our attendances from now on.

However will the club have time? Venkys are the elephant in the room that cannot be ignored. Just because they (or should I say the bank) are paying the bills let’s not kid ourselves about who put us in this position. It is a situation entirely of their own making and as they held the fans in total contempt it’s hardly surprising that the fans (sorry, customers) have voted with their feet.

Being a Premier league club for all those years didn’t help either. Football bleats on about being a business and not a sport so it should not surprise if the customers are not prepared to pay if the product is crap. The fans were an irrelevance as far as income was concerned so they can not be blamed in any way for what happens to the club from now on.

What Venkys have done is far far more abhorrent than some small cup final ticket issue

The trust has gone and I cannot see a solution that includes them

[Parsonblue]

How many millions in debt and transfer embargoes will it take for you to think total collapse ?

If they walk away tomorrow the club closes unless you have a solution Abbey - preferably one that doesn't involve playing on Pleasington

[thenodrog]

Nobodies criticising people for going K-Hod. How can you be so wildly off the point??

It's the tone aimed at the fans who are in a quandary. So some fans have had enough for now. I'm sure they have wrestled with the decision for a while. It's not a willy waving competition (as you said on another topic) to see who's got the biggest resistance to seeing their club unnecessarily dragged further and further down for no reason. If people have had enough then that's their prerogative but it's sure as bloody hell a far far bigger issue excuse than merely losing Premier league status.

more accurate imo.

This is what affects many these days... http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/blame-culture

[Parsonblue]

The current owners have put the clubs future in doubt, not the fans, aided and abetted by the total ninkampoops complaining from the stands that made it far too easy for them to get rid of Allardyce.

However I do take your point. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, should all and sundry withdraw their support then the club will inevitably die. I wonder at your hope of truly being self-sufficient as the maths simply do not add up, but maybe someone somewhere has a cunning plan and all will be fine in the end.

To be honest I don't think there is any chance of the club being self sufficient and therein is the main problem with Financial Fair Play in that it simply isn't Fair on any level.

It's a hard one Parson and I think time will be the clubs friend in terms of natural fan turnover. The longer the time the less relevant the owners will become. Just like the issues in the 60s became irrelevant as fans died off and new one’s were born. Circa 13K will be our attendances from now on.

However will the club have time? Venkys are the elephant in the room that cannot be ignored. Just because they (or should I say the bank) are paying the bills let’s not kid ourselves about who put us in this position. It is a situation entirely of their own making and as they held the fans in total contempt it’s hardly surprising that the fans (sorry, customers) have voted with their feet.

Being a Premier league club for all those years didn’t help either. Football bleats on about being a business and not a sport so it should not surprise if the customers are not prepared to pay if the product is crap. The fans were an irrelevance as far as income was concerned so they can not be blamed in any way for what happens to the club from now on.

What Venkys have done is far far more abhorrent than some small cup final ticket issue

The trust has gone and I cannot see a solution that includes them

All very fair points Shaun and I don't think anyone disputes who put us in this position. Unfortunately, as Ian Battersby said on radio the other week the club is now unsaleable so in the short term, at least, we need the present owners simply to keep it going.

[ABBEY]

If they walk away tomorrow the club closes unless you have a solution Abbey - preferably one that doesn't involve playing on Pleasington

and if they stay we will get the same result. But hey ho.

Rather they go now and salvage what we can rather than in 2 years when there's no salvageable outcome.

more accurate imo.

This is what affects many these days... http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/blame-culture

the venkyscum ARE TO BLAME tho.

To be honest I don't think there is any chance of the club being self sufficient and therein is the main problem with Financial Fair Play in that it simply isn't Fair on any level.

All very fair points Shaun and I don't think anyone disputes who put us in this position. Unfortunately, as Ian Battersby said on radio the other week the club is now unsaleable so in the short term, at least, we need the present owners simply to keep it going.

how long and how much debt are you happy for rovers to take on board before it can go on no longer? 200, 300, 50000 million?

[gumboots]

The problem is that unless someone comes up with sensible and doable plans for the club going forward the crash will almost certainly happen as venkys will in all likelihood walk away sooner rather than later. We may be reliant on them at the moment but they're probably not in it for the long haul. If they are they need to communicate that to fans and show how they are going to cut costs and keep the club going. I sat through a meeting last week about redundancies and job cuts. It wasn't an easy feeling but at least you then had time to go away and think what was best for you to do. That's treating people fairly and properly. Tell it like it is and give them chance to make choices. There is no structure in place to allow that to happen at rovers. I'm not suggesting they tell us about job cuts but that someone somewhere needs to have a plan and communicate the bits we need to know. I don't need the business ins and outs. I need to know what they plan to do to stop money draining out of the club. I need to know what they are going to do about management. I need to know how they plan to get us out of ffp. I need to know about ticketing next year. Will there be stand closures? If so where? All of these have an impact on the way I feel about renewing my ticket. It's all stuff that should be out there for debate. Will it happen?Will it heck!

[ABBEY]

The problem is that unless someone comes up with sensible and doable plans for the club going forward the crash will almost certainly happen as venkys will in all likelihood walk away sooner rather than later. We may be reliant on them at the moment but they're probably not in it for the long haul.

General post here not aimed at you ..

Thing is they walk away and the worst happens all the Rovers Fans will say see told you what would happen but the thing is we predicted this from V DAY 1.

IN VENKYS WE TRUST

IN VENKYS WE GO BUST.

[thenodrog]

How many millions in debt and transfer embargoes will it take for you to think total collapse ?

Abbey I'm getting the feeling that you are eagerly awaiting the axe to fall on brfc and then you can say 'I told you so'. It's a bit like the gravestone epitaph 'You lot wouldn't believe me when I told you I was ill'.

We all know that the club is teetering in the brink of a precipice. If it goes over there is no way back (Going to Burnley/PNE might be the only options open to you soon). I can't see a logical way forward such is the level of debt but if the club ever needed support it's now and in the forseeable future. All this talking the club down and negativity can only adversely affect the support base and effectively hasten the day when Blackburn does not have a club.

I've banged on about NW United for long enough to widespread ridicule but I think a few might soon be regretting that it did not happen a few years back when we were strong and could have been the dominant driving force in forming a club to serve the whole area that is both financially viable and self sustainable. Who knows if Jack had used his irresistable wealth and influence back then and driven Lancashire football in that direction we may never have heard of Madame, Balaji et al.

[Rover_Shaun]

If they want to take the first step then they should wipe the debt.

[thenodrog]

the venkyscum ARE TO BLAME tho.

I've come to the conclusion that if it was not them it would have been someone else. Look at the flakes that we avoided for Pete's sake!!! I've no doubt that Shah or Williams or that other dodgepot with the greasy hair and fake emerald ring would have long since sold up and cleared off. BRFC as it stands is unworkable as a professional club in the top division without some idiot with a death wish chucking gazillions at it. A tiny support base coupled with the cheapest ST's in the land and yet people still think it's too much and expect Prem football to be spoon fed to them. Small town. small town mentality will not sustain a successful team.

Question for you Abbey.....

If on the off chance that the venkys wrote off the debt and cleared off back to India to lick their wounds without selling the club but leaving the club to the supporters /FF / Trust or whoever just how long do you think it would

a. continue in the top two Divisions?

and

b. continue full stop?

[Proudtobeblue&white]

If they want to take the first step then they should wipe the debt.

I hear of other clubs suggesting this - indeed if they are so incredibly wealthy, why is it that they don't just do it?

They could start again, following the apology, announce ST prices, ask politely for those that have given them up to come back, as they are going to be nice to us going forward!

Oh, and give Shelfie the sat nav co-ordinates back to the nobbers ground.....

[thenodrog]

If they want to take the first step then they should wipe the debt.

And then what?

But to do that would surely involve selling every player that they can, plus Brockhall and plus Ewood before wiping the rest. Tell you what, you have a go at answering the question that I've just put to abbey above.