[Archived] Til Debt Do Us Part - A Marriage of Inconvenience

[Paul]

Great post by gumboots. I agree 100% except that while I don't have to go and watch it I will.

Why? Not sure really there are lots of reasons.

Stuart kindly commented about how happy I looked at Anfield. After Stoke another message board member spotted me outside the ground and hugged me. I only know these people because of Rovers.

It's those matches, those moments. No one can take those away. There just aren't so many these days. Hoping for another on April 8th.

[Athlete]

The support is dwindling drastically to the traditional areas of support within the town Ewood Mill Hill Cherry Tree Darwen etc most travelling from outer town or other town boroughs were public transport is required are just picking there games.. Many of our group even though ST holders whom live in areas where they no longer can walk to the ground and lot of matches they haven't even bothered making the effort and quite a few have said there no longer going to purchase STs with the rubbish on offer also a couple of mates struggling cash wise have also now said they have more important things to spend their money on than giving it to the current Ewood regime

IMO it's sad but that's where we are at losing fans left right and centre

[AllRoverAsia]

I have never before felt so low about Rovers.

The Owners have done that and are solely responsible for all our ills. Everyone and everthing else that's bad about Rovers is because of them - and that goes all the way through the Club from the Owners down the spiral.

Given this view that I sincerely hold I find it increasingly difficult to understand how anyone can have any lingering faith in the Owners that they will get anything right.

Kamy has said on a thread that the Owners could approach John Williams etc and that they would be open to discussion to return to the Board - if only that would happen I would immediately feel happier and much more positive for the future.

I have lived around the Asian region including India for over 25 years and understand (a little bit admittedly) the Indian mentality. My gut tells me that the Owners will not change and be seen to backdown or lose their 'face' - fecking crap.

I have followed Rovers since I was a young kid sewing my own Rovers shirt out of blue and white cloth my Dad got for me. I'm now in my 60s and know that the chance of Rovers becoming a properly run family Club like it used to be diminishes with every day that passes. I do not expect to see it happen in my remaining time and that is sad. The Owners are killing their 'Baby' and appear to enjoy making it a slow and painful death. I can NEVER forgive them for what they have done and continue to do. They have killed ''enjoyment''.

I am not even that bothered about not being in the PL (APART from the money and being on TV!) - more than that I want the Club back to being a happier place even if results were sometimes not good like in the late 60s and 70s......

I have no ready made solution as we are owned by idiots who do not care and never will.

I am not even enthused by the prospect of the FA Cup replay v Liverpool. I will stay up late to watch it on TV (Bkk time) but more out of habit than expectation.

A pointless rant I know - I also think this thread heading should start with ''Till'' but who f'ing cares, I know I don't really.

[ABBEY]

At the end of the day they don't give a @#/? about the club ,the fans or the town . There must be something else going on because nothing bothers them .

The sooner these toe rags leave us the better . A lot are saying we need them but the crowds are dwindling , the debts keep rising and the standard on football is worse than s Sunday pub team that's been in suttys all night .

These narcissistic toe rags will be all over Wembley if we get there just like they used The Queen for publicity and advertising Team Venky!

Saving face ? They have lost face over the football world . Arrogant pompeuos low life wierdos!!!

[mhead]

Siege Mentality.

Fans not united.

Numbers drifting away - groups of fans ebbing away.

Not as many locals who can walk to ground.

Ageing fan base who are becoming more resigned.

My quick summary.

But this has to end soon and probably will get worse short-term.

But in 3 weeks we may be taking 30,000 to Wembley.

The fans are there(the money is not) IF we can mobilise post-Venkys.

My summary. ALL is not lost YET.

[Athlete]

At the end of the day they don't give a @#/? about the club ,the fans or the town . There must be something else going on because nothing bothers them .

The sooner these toe rags leave us the better . A lot are saying we need them but the crowds are dwindling , the debts keep rising and the standard on football is worse than s Sunday pub team that's been in suttys all night .

These narcissistic toe rags will be all over Wembley if we get there just like they used The Queen for publicity and advertising Team Venky!

Saving face ? They have lost face over the football world . Arrogant pompeuos low life wierdos!!!

Abbey top post.. A lot of poster's can't seem to grasp that something has to be a miss.. we've had a gone rouge director -whose still in situ.. That's a fact without any speculation

Promotion doesn't seem to be on the agenda well with the debts BRFC have promotion is the only answer.. If they're not intent on going all out for promotion what's the gain their will be an explanation somewhere.. We've even had a few dubious transfers during there more recent tenure.. Like Varney

Siege Mentality.

Fans not united.

Numbers drifting away - groups of fans ebbing away.

Not as many locals who can walk to ground.

Ageing fan base who are becoming more resigned.

My quick summary.

But this has to end soon and probably will get worse short-term.

But in 3 weeks we may be taking 30,000 to Wembley.

The fans are there(the money is not) IF we can mobilise post-Venkys.

My summary. ALL is not lost YET.

Be great to have Venky's out banners at Wembley

[K-Hod]

Some excellent posts in this thread, showing there is plenty of passion and desire amongst the fanbase, all is not lost, YET.

[ABBEY]

It will be though K if nothing changes ALL WILL be lost ..Stabilty .. My arse

[onlyonejackwalker]

Good thread Stuart. I may be wrong, but think this thread has originated from the interesting debate you and Parson have been involved in..

Sad post ARA....^^^. I also have never felt so low about all things connected to the club. Not sure where to start as it has all been said many times before. Amazing support from people like you and USA Blue dotted world-wide.

My mum passed away last year and my lad doesn't want to go next year. Cannot blame him really as he gets a bit older and has other options. Having gone to the Rovers for years with both of them, now considering going alone to the ground would take me back to age 14 / 15 catching the train at Bamber Bridge and getting off amongst all the away fans at Mill Hill. I had my scarf pinched three times and was stopped getting on the train one game by City fans. I guess I was lucky not to get my head caved in those days.

I was a supporter way before that however and used to go with my Nan and Uncle sat in the old wooden Riverside with my rattle. Happy times for me back then as they loved the Rovers since the early 40's and 50's and my entire family went to Wembley for the Whelan final. Both stopped going, when Wolves fans charged the Rovers at the Blackburn End down Bolton Road. We managed to get to the car in time, but the back doors were booted in and from that day on they both never went near Ewood again. My Uncle said he couldn't protect his Mum, (my Nan), or me aged 7 / 8 and had been very scared that day. As a junior it felt more like an adventure and it is only now I fully understand how frightening that must have been for them both.

I am a Rovers fan aged 47 who lives and comes from Preston. I've supported since I was old enough to understand. Many I know however from these parts have packed up going, or are planning to. Safe to say we are losing supporters by the droves and many may never return.

It doesnt matter now, but I was one of those urging caution when the Venky's rolled into town, ridiculed their CL aspirations, nearly fell off my chair when Allardyce was potted and was mortified as all our big names were removed and the classlesss moron was placed in pole poistion. Like it or not it all stems from there hence so many being accused of living in the past. Like a bad dream this last four years or so.

And there is the rub. All our happiest moments have been from the past. I've been watching since the Don Martin, Bobby Svarc days under Gordon Lee. Didn't miss a home game for years and have had a season ticket for 27 of the last 40 years supporting. Saturday cricket stopped me having a season ticket the missing years.

I was there when when promoted from Division Three, when Garner broke his record, at Wembley with 12,000 Charlton fans, at Crystal Palace with Courtney, at Derby with Hendry heading them off the line, at Plymouth under Daglish, Speedie at Wembley, Shearer at Palace on debut, Old Trafford when Sherwood 'scored', Anfield, Cardiff and all the rest, including losing 5-2 at Oldham on plastic, being ridiculed for getting wet at Plymouth, with about 150 others for night games in Newcastle, Yorkshire and London, 4,000 crowds for the full members cup, 5,000 crowds in the league, singing home in a taxi to Swindon and getting in a fight at Bolton. Plus all the games in between.

Since the Venky's arrived I have been called a racist (for comments against them and Kean), fair weather fan if I mention missing games, living in the past, and righteously told that the club would be better off without fans like me by people who have never heard of Stuart Metcalf or Kevin Hird.. Tensions have run high of course, but I am happy with my lasting support over the years for this club. I've earnt my place in the history of this club, even though no-ones knows of me.

I don't experience any happy moments with the Rovers nowadays as I don't believe anymore, struggle to respect and am way too old to be taken as a fool. So really what is the point? I think I've just answered my own question.

It is hard to liken the Rovers to a normal business, but people don't buy from businesses, they buy from people first and foremost, preferably people they know and beyond that preferably people they know and like. Well I don't like the people at Rovers and am disgusted with them all.

I'll always love my club but i am not in love with it anymore. I don't like so much of wehat I see now. I know its part of me, so I struggle to let go. I don't enjoy it anymore but I still can't put it down. As soon as I wake up I look on here for news. I drive my partner mad at night searching for m updates on here and other places. Love and hate are very closely aligned. But boredom and apathy are genuiine killers.

I'll leave you with the words from Gumboots. Like it says its not being rubbish that hurts. I was there when we were rubbish years ago. I still stood there singing 'by far the greatest team' every week....' and I genuinely meant it along with all the rest of us.

"It's not the being rubbish that hurts. It's the fact that nobody seems to be trying to stop our being rubbish or make us even marginally less rubbish. Rubbish teams across the country people sing that they are the greatest team when they know they are nothing like it. However, they feel part of the set up, valued and feel like it matters to somebody that their team, even though it comes up short every time, plays as well as it can for them. It's the detached feeling that means that people are leaving.

[K-Hod]

It will be though K if nothing changes ALL WILL be lost ..Stabilty .. My arse

We're a million miles away from stability Abbey, one look at the club's accounts will tell you that. Stable compared to not changing managers every 5 minutes, but that's it.

In spite of all that has happened, I love the football club, but despise everyone running it for what they have done and they will never and should never be forgiven.

I'm a fair bit younger than OOJW, and didn't see many of the things he mentioned, but I've had some cracking memories watching Rovers, and they'll never be forgotten.

Like he says about driving his wife mad with checking for updates, I'm exactly the same with my girlfriend, it's an obsession for me, not just this place, but checking for news in general. It's a massive part of what I do, my identity, and I'm still (just about) proud to be a Rover.

[Rover_Shaun]

I got the train from Brig to Mill Hill for 3 seasons O1JW, this was after driving 45 miles each way from Didsbury for a decade. Had a few hairy do's on the train, especially on the way back.

Had an ST since I was 18 and under Kean It got to the point where I felt like I'd wasted my time and I should have stayed in the Navigation......the bloody Navvy of all places. It's a dosshole and I'd have rather spent another 90 minutes drinking in there. That told me it was time to have an hiatus until the club was cleansed and became BRFC again rather than Venky Circus Rovers.

There are plenty like me waiting in the wings, whilst I'm not over confident of taking anywhere near 30k to wembley (due to it being an expensive day out if you've fallen out with the club, and much more faff than going to Ewood) the Liverpool game sales show that the feeling is still there but the club needs to be quick to re-sow the seeds as the longer they leave it the harder it will be. The longer the malaise and sickness goes on the more the intentions of returning will evaporate for many.

To answer some of your post Stuart I think frustration is the most common emotion that has/will result from the situation. We have already tried getting behind the players and look what use that did us......we got relegated after some shockingly bad displays. I am sure those hardy souls who have attended games during the last two years have also supported the players, and look how they have been rewarded? It's entirely natural for someone to be worn down by it and think "What's the point? The don't deserve it anymore"

To me it's no longer a chicken, egg question. The fans have done their part and it's now entirely in the clubs hands to change the situation.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I got the train from Brig to Mill Hill for 3 seasons O1JW, this was after driving 45 miles each way from Didsbury for a decade. Had a few hairy do's on the train, especially on the way back.

Had an ST since I was 18 and under Kean It got to the point where I felt like I'd wasted my time and I should have stayed in the Navigation......the bloody Navvy of all places. It's a dosshole and I'd have rather spent another 90 minutes drinking in there. That told me it was time to have an hiatus until the club was cleansed and became BRFC again rather than Venky Circus Rovers.

There are plenty like me waiting in the wings, whilst I'm not over confident of taking anywhere near 30k to wembley (due to it being an expensive day out if you've fallen out with the club, and much more faff than going to Ewood) the Liverpool game sales show that the feeling is still there but the club needs to be quick to re-sow the seeds as the longer they leave it the harder it will be. The longer the malaise and sickness goes on the more the intentions of returning will evaporate for many.

To answer some of your post Stuart I think frustration is the most common emotion that has/will result from the situation. We have already tried getting behind the players and look what use that did us......we got relegated after some shockingly bad displays. I am sure those hardy souls who have attended games during the last two years have also supported the players, and look how they have been rewarded? It's entirely natural for someone to be worn down by it and think "What's the point? The don't deserve it anymore"

To me it's no longer a chicken, egg question. The fans have done their part and it's now entirely in the clubs hands to change the situation.

Not suprised by that. Coming back was always lively especially against City or the bigger Yorkshire clubs. Many a time I saw fans tearing up and down Livesey Branch Road heading to or from Mill Hill. I don't miss the hooligan days, but you certainly knew you had been to a game back then!

Didsbury is a fair old drive as well. Had my disagreements with you previously and I think it is fair to say you were slow to catch on re the Venky's, but its always been clear to me you love the club and some of the abuse directed your way for being honest about attending has been churlish in the extreme. Maybe some will give it a rest now, knowing you have been attending for years whatever the inconvenience and understanding that lasting support is not governed by collecting ticket stubs.

[Rover_Shaun]

Didsbury was in my lone attending days too before the out-law started to attend. In fact I went from 1994 to 2009 on my own as none of my mates ever got ST's

To my eternal discredit I was slow to catch on. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, as many did. Until I went to a very wet Wigan away (3-4), which was fairly early still in the Venky reign, and realised we were totally screwed.

I don't blame anyone for throwing the non-attending fact at me as it's an easy retort born of frustration (with the situation and me )

[onlyonejackwalker]

Didsbury was in my lone attending days too before the out-law started to attend. In fact I went from 1994 to 2009 on my own as none of my mates ever got ST's

To my eternal discredit I was slow to catch on. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, as many did. Until I went to a very wet Wigan away (3-4), which was fairly early still in the Venky reign, and realised we were totally screwed.

I don't blame anyone for throwing the non-attending fact at me as it's an easy retort born of frustration (with the situation and me )

Ha ha. Yes you can be frustrating. You peed me off moaning about pre-season under Sam. :0 In fact everythinhg about him wound you up.

Wigan away. Ryan Nelson storming down the left wing after 2 minutes winning a throw in. The left wing! Too right we were screwed.

[Rover_Shaun]

"Sorry for the lack of quotes as Works PC blocks quoting sometimes"

The more galling thing about that day was that we were in the lead once and I missed the bloody goal because I was having a wizz

I remember Wigan being able to drive an arctic down our right wing because Martin Olsson went shopping.

It's a different world now. I recall me and my Grandad went all the way to Swindon, for King Kenny's first game) on the coach with nothing but an assurance from Alan Irvine that there would be a ticket for us at the County Ground when we got there (my Grandad tapped him up on Pleasy). We got it given to us at the players entrance off John Howarth with a "Hello" from Jack himself. Alan had no tickets left so sorted one out through Lee Richardson's allocation. Even to this day Alan Irvine says "Hello Jack" whenever he see's my Grandad (who's been a Steward since 1989 and still one now at 85!!). He's a gent is Alan. He even once came up to me in Toys R Us in Preston when he was their manager. He was buying a football would you believe LOL! and said "Your Jacks Grandson aren't you? "How is Jack".

Could you imaging taking a players word these days?

[gumboots]

Great post by gumboots. I agree 100% except that while I don't have to go and watch it I will.

Why? Not sure really there are lots of reasons.

Stuart kindly commented about how happy I looked at Anfield. After Stoke another message board member spotted me outside the ground and hugged me. I only know these people because of Rovers.

It's those matches, those moments. No one can take those away. There just aren't so many these days. Hoping for another on April 8th.

Hence Paul why I will probably still attend but not necessarily buy a season ticket. I still get a buzz when we win; I still sit on the edge of my seat with butterflies in my stomach most matches. I felt great coming out of Anfield. I was buzzing when Rhodes scored the late goal the other week. I just can't bring myself to cough up the money upfront this year unless something changes

[Mike Graham]

Good thread Stuart. I may be wrong, but think this thread has originated from the interesting debate you and Parson have been involved in..

Sad post ARA....^^^. I also have never felt so low about all things connected to the club. Not sure where to start as it has all been said many times before. Amazing support from people like you and USA Blue dotted world-wide.

My mum passed away last year and my lad doesn't want to go next year. Cannot blame him really as he gets a bit older and has other options. Having gone to the Rovers for years with both of them, now considering going alone to the ground would take me back to age 14 / 15 catching the train at Bamber Bridge and getting off amongst all the away fans at Mill Hill. I had my scarf pinched three times and was stopped getting on the train one game by City fans. I guess I was lucky not to get my head caved in those days.

I was a supporter way before that however and used to go with my Nan and Uncle sat in the old wooden Riverside with my rattle. Happy times for me back then as they loved the Rovers since the early 40's and 50's and my entire family went to Wembley for the Whelan final. Both stopped going, when Wolves fans charged the Rovers at the Blackburn End down Bolton Road. We managed to get to the car in time, but the back doors were booted in and from that day on they both never went near Ewood again. My Uncle said he couldn't protect his Mum, (my Nan), or me aged 7 / 8 and had been very scared that day. As a junior it felt more like an adventure and it is only now I fully understand how frightening that must have been for them both.

I am a Rovers fan aged 47 who lives and comes from Preston. I've supported since I was old enough to understand. Many I know however from these parts have packed up going, or are planning to. Safe to say we are losing supporters by the droves and many may never return.

It doesnt matter now, but I was one of those urging caution when the Venky's rolled into town, ridiculed their CL aspirations, nearly fell off my chair when Allardyce was potted and was mortified as all our big names were removed and the classlesss moron was placed in pole poistion. Like it or not it all stems from there hence so many being accused of living in the past. Like a bad dream this last four years or so.

And there is the rub. All our happiest moments have been from the past. I've been watching since the Don Martin, Bobby Svarc days under Gordon Lee. Didn't miss a home game for years and have had a season ticket for 27 of the last 40 years supporting. Saturday cricket stopped me having a season ticket the missing years.

I was there when when promoted from Division Three, when Garner broke his record, at Wembley with 12,000 Charlton fans, at Crystal Palace with Courtney, at Derby with Hendry heading them off the line, at Plymouth under Daglish, Speedie at Wembley, Shearer at Palace on debut, Old Trafford when Sherwood 'scored', Anfield, Cardiff and all the rest, including losing 5-2 at Oldham on plastic, being ridiculed for getting wet at Plymouth, with about 150 others for night games in Newcastle, Yorkshire and London, 4,000 crowds for the full members cup, 5,000 crowds in the league, singing home in a taxi to Swindon and getting in a fight at Bolton. Plus all the games in between.

Since the Venky's arrived I have been called a racist (for comments against them and Kean), fair weather fan if I mention missing games, living in the past, and righteously told that the club would be better off without fans like me by people who have never heard of Stuart Metcalf or Kevin Hird.. Tensions have run high of course, but I am happy with my lasting support over the years for this club. I've earnt my place in the history of this club, even though no-ones knows of me.

I don't experience any happy moments with the Rovers nowadays as I don't believe anymore, struggle to respect and am way too old to be taken as a fool. So really what is the point? I think I've just answered my own question.

It is hard to liken the Rovers to a normal business, but people don't buy from businesses, they buy from people first and foremost, preferably people they know and beyond that preferably people they know and like. Well I don't like the people at Rovers and am disgusted with them all.

I'll always love my club but i am not in love with it anymore. I don't like so much of wehat I see now. I know its part of me, so I struggle to let go. I don't enjoy it anymore but I still can't put it down. As soon as I wake up I look on here for news. I drive my partner mad at night searching for m updates on here and other places. Love and hate are very closely aligned. But boredom and apathy are genuiine killers.

I'll leave you with the words from Gumboots. Like it says its not being rubbish that hurts. I was there when we were rubbish years ago. I still stood there singing 'by far the greatest team' every week....' and I genuinely meant it along with all the rest of us.

"It's not the being rubbish that hurts. It's the fact that nobody seems to be trying to stop our being rubbish or make us even marginally less rubbish. Rubbish teams across the country people sing that they are the greatest team when they know they are nothing like it. However, they feel part of the set up, valued and feel like it matters to somebody that their team, even though it comes up short every time, plays as well as it can for them. It's the detached feeling that means that people are leaving.

Your support for Rovers and experiences over the years seem to mirror mine (except I would add 10 years on in my case). You are no fair weather fan, you are "a Rover".

[JBiz]

Must admit - this thread is the nearest this website has come to unifying the fans in thought.

We have opinions on what might be the best solution but we all feel the same about the damage done.

[ABBEY]

Change the word ALL to MOST

[Mike Graham]

Must admit - this thread is the nearest this website has come to unifying the fans in thought.

We have opinions on what might be the best solution but we all feel the same about the damage done.

I agree with that. "Hear hear" ( btw on the last day of Prime Ministers Question Time prior to the election).

[Stuart]

A pointless rant I know - I also think this thread heading should start with ''Till'' but who f'ing cares, I know I don't really.

Actually, if we were being pedantic, it should start with an apostrophe and a lower case 't' denoting the loss of 'un' from 'until'.

Regarding the rest of your post, you're not wrong - there is no wrong opinion or feeling. But we are each in control of how we react to it. The choice is there to be miserable or to try something else - either by leaving or staying but something else all the same.

[OJRovers]

Some great posts on this thread.

Sadly, I can't see where it's going to end. The owners won't ever change their ways of running the club with no proper Directors and no proper manager.

I genuinely believe that administration and starting fresh has to be more enjoyable than how things are at the moment. It has been torturous being a Rovers fan since Venkys arrived.

[AllRoverAsia]

Actually, if we were being pedantic, it should start with an apostrophe and a lower case 't' denoting the loss of 'un' from 'until'.

Regarding the rest of your post, you're not wrong - there is no wrong opinion or feeling. But we are each in control of how we react to it. The choice is there to be miserable or to try something else - either by leaving or staying but something else all the same.

Thanks for the Grammar lesson but Alf G. wouldn't have been quite the same in '' 'til Death Us Do Part '' Actually I've just realised that sometimes I put the ' in the wrong place must be an age thing (would'nt instead of wouldn't was my first type)

I know I can't give up on Rovers, if I was in the UK I would still hope to get to as many matches as possible money permitting, so all I can do is pray things get better for Rovers somehow. I always track Rovers news but just find it harder and harder to rationalise why the Owners have done what they have and show little if any sign of learning.

PS - I thought the post by onlyonejackwalker was a great one.

[Stuart]

Good thread Stuart. I may be wrong, but think this thread has originated from the interesting debate you and Parson have been involved in..

Possibly by osmosis but it's not so much Parson winning me over: we are still miles apart on Bowyer. Inspiration was from gumboots and Tom who have really lost heart but also a particularly damning post from Kamy.

Great post by the way.

[Doaksie]

Good thread Stuart. I may be wrong, but think this thread has originated from the interesting debate you and Parson have been involved in....

....It's the detached feeling that means that people are leaving.

Quite likely one of the best posts I have read in my years of perusing this message board. I can almost feel the hope, desire, hurt and sense of belonging to Rover's proud history permeating through the emotive words. Set that on 'Madame's' desk and show her just a little of what so many people are currently experiencing at their hands....