[Archived] FFP. When does the transfer embargo end?

[Stuart]

I know it's been a while just had a lot on with Brdsc & other things alcd is right it does stink. I have always maintained FFP is good in theory in life an individual can't spend more than they earn but the problem is the Football League are ignoramuses who have no idea on how to implement it effectively. I sent an email to the football league which Kamy has seen I was asking why Bolton were in 160.1 million of debt and there reply was less than satisfactory replying with something that came out of the rulebooks & hiding behind the rules they said that they were not looking at historical debt they were looking at accounts from last season so they say they want to avoid clubs going to the wall ala pompey style but surely the debt they have built up in the past affects a club in the future so in many ways the rules are very contradictory. There is also another point that occured to me listening to Shearer last night on radio Lancs @ the 20 year celebration he said success for Blackburn now would be getting back to the EPL sustaining our status & getting our embargo lifted & meeting FFP regulations because what Jack did 20 years ago can't be done now as FFP would prevent this and he said it only benefits the top clubs & small clubs can't compete. However the FL say FFP is designed to avoid a pompey style collapse but if you look at it you have 2 types of buyout a Man Utd style leveraged buyout by putting most debt on the club like Pompey when the owners don't put their own cash in & put the club at risk which the FL wants to avoid then you have owners like Soton who use their own money to buy a club invest in the infrastructure, academy, stadium who use their own money & who are responsible now I have no reason to doubt Nick Harris as he seems very thorough in his investigations with what their estimated wealth is they should be allowed to pay off the debt & get the embargo lifted as the clubs that should be targeted are those putting debt on the club not owners investing their own wealth in their club & one point that needs highlighting all the debt they have built up is secured against their OWN assets & their OWN land & not on BRFC. If anyone wants to see the email I got from the FL on FFP just ask.

FFP would also prevent a Southampton style deal.

Here's a conundrum. Venkys cannot put in money to cover our operating losses and comply with FFP. How does a new owner pay off any debts and any future debts? It seems as though FFP is designed to make clubs go to the wall or to never have to pay a fee for a player ever again. Hell, maybe every club should just arrange to go under an embargo and stuff the whole system!

[Brfcrule1]

You mention they should be allowed to pay the debt off but half of it is on their books anyway and the other half they've allowed it to run up instead of paying it as they go along out of their own pockets. FFP goes on turnover and losses not debt but deep down there must be a good reason those applying it have applied it to Rovers. Maybe their ability to cover that debt and those losses isn't all that it seems ?

Tomphil the problem they are worth over the 3bn so they could easily cover it the problem is the FL have no idea how to implement those rules as they have the money they should be allowed to use it to clear the debt on rovers books & stuart has it right if a new owner can't come in clear all the debt & invest the whole system comes crashing downand the fact the Trotters who have 172.1m of external debt and still not be under an embargo suggests the authorities are incompetent on how to enfore the rules.

[tomphil]

Tomphil the problem they are worth over the 3bn so they could easily cover it the problem is the FL have no idea how to implement those rules as they have the money they should be allowed to use it to clear the debt on rovers books & stuart has it right if a new owner can't come in clear all the debt & invest the whole system comes crashing downand the fact the Trotters who have 172.1m of external debt and still not be under an embargo suggests the authorities are incompetent on how to enfore the rules.

Sorry I don't agree on their worth at all but that's another debate. The FFP is indeed an absolute farce, if they don't want clubs in debt then why can't they let owners clear debt or put money in to keep their clubs out of debt. It's bonkers and will surely fall to bits soon. Trotters debt isn't very external by the way, nearly all of it is owed to Davies and it's presumable he uses his own cash to fund it. Just how do Venky's actually fund us and why are the authorities seemingly concerned by this ? That's the issue.

[Athlete]

So you are saying that Venkys aren't worth upwards of £2b?

Whatever they are worth they've not spent anything on BRFC they've spent Barclays and BOI cash though but don't forget there are external creditors as well

[Al]

I'll not hold my breath on anyone at the club doing anything clever......

There's nothing clever about reserving for future known losses. It's standard accountancy practice and should have been done.

[Athlete]

There's nothing clever about reserving for future known losses. It's standard accountancy practice and should have been done.

But it wasn't.. Why? Incompetence or on orders from above

[chris_h]

But it wasn't.. Why? Incompetence or on orders from above

Why would there be orders 'from above' to incur loses?

[USABlue]

How have they announced a loss of more than £8million (£9.1m) and not been put under an emabrgo?

They are not Blackburn Rovers.

[Al]

But it wasn't.. Why? Incompetence or on orders from above

Their auditors should have insisted on it or qualified the accounts.

[Athlete]

Why would there be orders 'from above' to incur loses?

Again please read the post again it's not incur loses

I'll leave that to the imagination why the accounts weren't as Al said

[chris_h]

Again please read the post again it's not incur loses

I'll leave that to the imagination why the accounts weren't as Al said

I've had as much of a read back as time will allow. For me the crux of it appears to be your reluctance to accept the recent figures re Venky's wealth along with some insinuations that somebody at the club is doing something unethical again.

[den]

What's it matter what their wealth is?

As far as I can see, they've not put much of their own money in, - unless we're saying that the club would have lost far more over the last 5 years than it has. I find that hard to believe.

[chris_h]

What's it matter what their wealth is?

As far as I can see, they've not put much of their own money in, - unless we're saying that the club would have lost far more over the last 5 years than it has. I find that hard to believe.

It matters because some people have suggested or hinted at the Bank of India calling the debt in. Estimates of Venky's wealth may suggest that this scenario appears unlikely.

[Athlete]

It matters because some people have suggested or hinted at the Bank of India calling the debt in. Estimates of Venky's wealth may suggest that this scenario appears unlikely.

No one is suggesting or insuating wether that will happen.. But even a child can understand that it won't carry on forever..

But forget BOI or Venky's what about the other external debt ?

[chris_h]

No one is suggesting or insuating wether that will happen.. But even a child can understand that it won't carry on forever..

But forget BOI or Venky's what about the other external debt ?

You've brought external debt up a couple of times or more and, to be honest I'm not too sure what you mean. What is this external debt? How much is it and to whom is it owed? Why would Venky's not cover it if it emperiled the club?

Didn't Exiled in Toronto address this 'external debt'? I admit that I am a financial illiterate and I can't remember exactly what he said or what the ramifications of what he said was but he appears to be a person who knows what he's talking about.

[Athlete]

You've brought external debt up a couple of times or more and, to be honest I'm not too sure what you mean. What is this external debt? How much is it and to whom is it owed? Why would Venky's not cover it if it emperiled the club?

Didn't Exiled in Toronto address this 'external debt'? I admit that I am a financial illiterate and I can't remember exactly what he said or what the ramifications of what he said was but he appears to be a person who knows what he's talking about.

No Exiled didn't he mentioned overdraft facilities with rich people

External debts are debts too other bodies not BOI or Venky's

Go back and read the accounts thread

think back to your school days pretend the millions are apples you should get there in the end

A qualified accountant puts it in reality on the accounts thread

[chris_h]

No Exiled didn't he mentioned overdraft facilities with rich people

External debts are debts too other bodies not BOI or Venky's

Go back and read the accounts thread

think back to your school days pretend the millions are apples you should get there in the end

A qualified accountant puts it in reality on the accounts thread

Not a lot of detail there to be honest, certainly not enough to hang your hat on. If you aren't in a position to elaborate yourself I might trawl through the thread for the qualified accountant* at the weekend when I have a spare hour or two.

*its not Mercerman is it?

[Athlete]

Not a lot of detail there to be honest, certainly not enough to hang your hat on. If you aren't in a position to elaborate yourself I might trawl through the thread for the qualified accountant* at the weekend when I have a spare hour or two.

*its not Mercerman is it?

There's enough detail to know that the situation isn't rosy

BTW when you get a chance take a look at other clubs message boards on a search before the s hit the fan.. You'll see some parallels with this board

[Silas]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2015/05/18/11859552/platini-uefa-could-relax-ffp-laws

News coming out that FFP could be getting scaled down next month.

Heard somewhere that 12 law suits were outstanding challenging it from around Europe.

Looks like, as many expected, they simply couldn't make it stick legally.

Will be interesting to see how this effects us.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-18/uefa-ffp-rules-set-to-be-relaxed-next-month/

ITV write up.

"....the current system means those who have more will always have more, and those who have less will always have less."

At last some sense getting talked. Hope this work out well for Rovers.

[Kamy100]

While that is the Champions League FFP and it doesn't directly affect us but it does show that UEFA even with their billions are so worried about legal action that they decided to change the rules. The Football League are also the same so the QPR case is the one to watch, if their judicial review is successful it will almost certainly bring the football league FFP down in it's current format.

[Silas]

Oh, right, cheers Kamy.

What a downer, was getting all excited there as thought it all worked under one umbrella.

Oh well, hopefully it will trickle down to our level like you say, and sooner rather than later.

We desperately need the wiggle room to manoeuvre otherwise I fear we are screwed.

[Athlete]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32784375

Platini has to back track and quick Dupont is on the case

also the Monaco owner is also ready for a court battle over FFP he once famously said about a civil case they wont win he's got more money than them........( for those who don't understand he has ready cash he's cash rich as well asset rich )ound Europe

just been on SSN around 10 clubs are looking at the legallity of FFP around Europe

comon sense tells you it has to be against EU rules on free markets

[den]

Oh great, so we might be able to lose even more money then?

[ABBEY]

keep up den me owd mucker...were minted ,owe nowt and venkys are richer than the ruskie dude dahn at t'bridge

[K-Hod]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/barcelona-sign-spanish-starlet-rafa-5721430 Fair play? Joke.