[Archived] The General Election 2015

[adopted scouser]

Time will tell my friend, time will tell. I'll let you get back to polishing your Diana and Queen Mum memorabilia.

Wow you must be incisive in a debate

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Regarding the anthem, personally I'd have "I Vow to Thee my Country", bit militaristic in parts but sounds good and gets the point across. But seeing as in this thread alone there's multiple preferences, I wouldn't mind if they just kept the current one.

On Corbyn's appearance, totally agree with Paul. Who cares what he looks/dresses like? That criticism is shallow in the extreme. I actually like that he's apparently unconcerned with people's perception of him and isn't the standard career politician. Breath of fresh air in that regard. Doubt I'll agree with that many of his policies though.

[joey_big_nose]

Wow you must be incisive in a debate

You didn't make a point to debate? I thought we were doing the standing by throwing empty insults thing?

[adopted scouser]

You didn't make a point to debate? I thought we were doing the standing by throwing empty insults thing?

Diana and Queen memorabilia ?

[joey_big_nose]

Regarding the anthem, personally I'd have "I Vow to Thee my Country", bit militaristic in parts but sounds good and gets the point across. But seeing as in this thread alone there's multiple preferences, I wouldn't mind if they just kept the current one.

On Corbyn's appearance, totally agree with Paul. Who cares what he looks/dresses like? That criticism is shallow in the extreme. I actually like that he's apparently unconcerned with people's perception of him and isn't the standard career politician. Breath of fresh air in that regard. Doubt I'll agree with that many of his policies though.

Interesting how people differ. I really don't like the national anthem but I do think leaders of whatever persuasion should dress professionally. Sure, Blair's suits made him look a bit too much like he worked for KPMG or Coutts. That slick is a bit too far. However a decent suit and tie is sensible and keeps people focussed on what your saying. Not what your wearing. It's also a courtesy - if you are asking to represent people then you should look the part. Otherwise you are subliminally saying "I don't care if I look good for you" which is not a good message.

I do agree however these image concerns are much less important issuse than policy. But they are still issues and Corbyn should take them seriously.

[T J Hooker]

Id like either the birdie song or spice girls viva forever! As our new national anthem.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Interesting how people differ. I really don't like the national anthem but I do think leaders of whatever persuasion should dress professionally. Sure, Blair's suits made him look a bit too much like he worked for KPMG or Coutts. That slick is a bit too far. However a decent suit and tie is sensible and keeps people focussed on what your saying. Not what your wearing. It's also a courtesy - if you are asking to represent people then you should look the part. Otherwise you are subliminally saying "I don't care if I look good for you" which is not a good message.

I do agree however these image concerns are much less important issuse than policy. But they are still issues and Corbyn should take them seriously.

Corbyn generally wears a suit and tie doesn't he? They're not exactly Armani but like I said I personally like that about him (probably reflective of my own lack of concern with fashion!). If you're there to represent people then surely it's about the policies you make, if he spends less time on his appearance he can spend more time on his work.

But then I'd agree with you if he turned up in a tracksuit so suppose it's just a matter of levels.

[Gav]

Regarding Corbyn, he rarely wears a tie, is a republican and refuses to wear a poppy - Can you be the Prime Minister without these 3 issues being resolved?

Forget his policies, these 3 issues alone will turn people against him and they're easily solved, just play the game Jeremy.

As a voter I can accept his links with those murdering swines IRA and Hezbollah, can't believe I'm saying that but we all need to move on, but he needs to give something back to me as a voter also, if he refuses to wear a poppy I'm going to struggle to support him, simple as that.

[broadsword]

Whether it's right or wrong, people judge on appearances and if you don't make an effort, you're a fool because as sure as eggs is eggs, it's a vote loser.

How much attention to detail and diligence will he show in affairs of state if he dresses like he resents it? It looks like he's not prepared to show any compromise on his principles. Would you trust a man with something important if you he looked like a bag of poo tied up in the middle?

He's come straight from the backbenches and it shows. If he makes it through to 2020, by which time he'll be 70, so he'd serve as PM until he was 75, he's going to take a rogering in the polls.

Principles are all well and good, and you must start from principles otherwise you end up like Tony Blair. However, if you're not prepared to compromise, then be prepared to stay out of power.

[RibbleValleyRover]

What did people think of his performance at PMQ's? Interesting format with asking questions that people had sent in, though it played into Cameron's hands as well. Corbyn didn't question his answers and the format, well Cameron has been doing that style of format for a decade with his 'Cameron Direct' events, so he has become rather good at them.

Not sure the format is going to work longer term.

[Gav]

What did people think of his performance at PMQ's? Interesting format with asking questions that people had sent in, though it played into Cameron's hands as well. Corbyn didn't question his answers and the format, well Cameron has been doing that style of format for a decade with his 'Cameron Direct' events, so he has become rather good at them.

Not sure the format is going to work longer term.

GAV how can you move on from some of his stances on the IRA, Hezbollah and Hamas? I guess one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Me? They are terrorist scum and I find it totally distasteful that he and especially McDonnell have had sympathetic stances towards them in the past.

Not seen PMQ's yet, will watch it later.

As for his stance on IRA, if Prince Charles can shake hands with Adams and Mcguinness, I can reluctantly move on also. I spent far to many years hating everything about those two and what they stood for and with good reason, but you have to move on, and I DON'T see them as freedom fighters just to be clear

[RibbleValleyRover]

Not seen PMQ's yet, will watch it later.

As for his stance on IRA, if Prince Charles can shake hands with Adams and Mcguinness, I can reluctantly move on also. I spent far to many years hating everything about those two and what they stood for and with good reason, but you have to move on, and I DON'T see them as freedom fighters just to be clear

Fair enough. Not sure Hezbollah and Hamas are at that point yet where I think it could be wise to move on and let bygones be bygones for the greater good but that's my personal view.

Actually think on reflection Corbyn also played that PMQ's well, if he had attacked Cameron at his first PMQ's he was bound to bring up the whole national anthem or somt of the other problems he has had so far early in his position.

[joey_big_nose]

Corbyn generally wears a suit and tie doesn't he? They're not exactly Armani but like I said I personally like that about him (probably reflective of my own lack of concern with fashion!). If you're there to represent people then surely it's about the policies you make, if he spends less time on his appearance he can spend more time on his work.

But then I'd agree with you if he turned up in a tracksuit so suppose it's just a matter of levels.

Corby wore a suit at PMQs today which was hilariously about 4 sizes too big for him. However he performed pretty well I thought. Good questions, good composed approach.

Cameron was assured and came across well also but I think in the long run he will just not look as authentic as Corbyn. Too scrubbed and Oxbridge.

However being good at PMQs has never really won anyone many votes. Not enough people watch or care about them.

[joey_big_nose]

Not seen PMQ's yet, will watch it later.

As for his stance on IRA, if Prince Charles can shake hands with Adams and Mcguinness, I can reluctantly move on also. I spent far to many years hating everything about those two and what they stood for and with good reason, but you have to move on, and I DON'T see them as freedom fighters just to be clear

The positions McDowell and Corbyn have taken on the IRA, Hamas, NATO etc are just so far away from the political mainstream.

If Corbyn ever makes it to fighting an election - and I would be amazed if he did - the daily mail, the express etc would have an absolute field day. They could run a new story every day for a month on some ridiculous thing Corbyn or McDowell have said in their long controversial political careers.

The fringe will have their time in the sun then they'll let a more mainstream leader emerge in around 2017/2018. Corbyn himself knows he can't win an election. He'll try and move the agenda a bit to the left, particularly on the anti austerity tilt (which is very sound economically), and the party will hunt around for a unifying candidate to produce in 2018 to give them a two year run at the polls.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Just watched a bit of PMQs and actually really admired Corbyn's behaviour in it. He's right, PMQs as it was was a load of clever, well-paid people behaving as a mixture of sneering bullies, drunken louts and silly children.

Takes bottle to stand there in the midst of hundreds of people who regularly indulge in that idiotic behaviour and tell them you know what, most people think you're idiots.

So still don't agree with him much but gotta admit I'm warming to him as a politician.

[Guest]

We complain that politicians take too much of taxpayers money, and then we complain that they haven't gone for an expensive groom and a suit to our liking. That's the public for you.

Personally I don't give monkey's about our national anthem. The Queen does some good for the public, but so does everyone else. I'm extremely proud to be British, but the Queen has virtually nothing to do with that pride. "He's a Republican - run for your lives!!!". What nonsense and scaremongering. If he stands up and sets out how he wants to tackle issues that really matter to working people, unlike most politicians these days, then I'm all for it. What he looks like or what colour suit he wears matters not a jot. Let's see what happens over the next five years. The Tories who spent their £3 and are laughing now, may not be doing so when the election comes and people are fed up of the incumbents. 5 years is a longggggg time.

[yoda]

Yes 5 years is a long time, Corbyn won't be the Labour leader that long.

If you are in the public eye then appearances are important, walk the walk, talk the talk

[T J Hooker]

I just dont think he really gives a @#/? about all that superficial crap, its what we've been wanting, a politician that isnt driven by his own ego with one eye always on increaseing his personal profile for when they leave politics. I think corbyns fully aware that labours chances of winning the next election are still slim and his chances of still being leader in 5years are even slimmer so he's just kind of gone '@#/?it ill just be myself and stick to what i believe'. Which is great for politics and exactly the kind of shake up our stagnated parliament needs.

Kind of reminds me of the way Obama is acting now that he knows he's in his final run as President, he's nothing to loose now so he's just being more honest and doing things that he wants to do without compromising his beliefs.

[joey_big_nose]

I just dont think he really gives a @#/? about all that superficial crap, its what we've been wanting, a politician that isnt driven by his own ego with one eye always on increaseing his personal profile for when they leave politics. I think corbyns fully aware that labours chances of winning the next election are still slim and his chances of still being leader in 5years are even slimmer so he's just kind of gone '@#/?it ill just be myself and stick to what i believe'. Which is great for politics and exactly the kind of shake up our stagnated parliament needs.

Yes, loads of people will love that he doesn t give care about the "superficial crap". However loads of others will hate it. The issue with fringe politics is that for every one person who is turned on by the radicLness of it, there are two who are turned off by it.

A big problem for the Corbmiester is that they are counting on loads of people who did not vote before voting for him and these people giving him a big boost. However they just aren't out there. For example Obama in his outstanding campaign of 2008 only actually managed to get an extra 2% of the electorate out. Cobyn is not going to magic up thousands of voters in seats lost to the Tories. And all the time while playing to the mystical non voter, and a few who went to UKIP or the Greens, he will be bleeding people from the centre to the Lib Dems and even the Tories, unless he plays a blinder.

And playing a blinder means kicking all of his radical supporters in the balls, turning round after winning the Labour Leadership and being a moderate. Dropping nearly all the fringy stuff.

He already seems to be doing it. Dropped his position on the EU and NATO for example.

[Gav]

Strong rumours that a few new labour supporters are looking to defect to the Tories. Positions being worked on by all accounts.

Should be an interesting month or so, although I can't see any labour big hitters defecting, but I wouldn't trust Tristran Hunt as far as I could throw him and Umunna is on record as disliking the poor!

[Mike E]

So...Cameron put his bits in a pig carcass.

But Corbyn didn't sing a song and doesn't wear ties, so they're about even...

[K-Hod]

Black Mirror.....

[yoda]

So...Cameron put his bits in a pig carcass.

But Corbyn didn't sing a song and doesn't wear ties, so they're about even...

Except that Cameron was a student and is now the boss, Corbyn probably, is still a student

[T J Hooker]

Corbny looks very professorial to me, if it was down to pure intellect im sure he'd have Cameron for breakfast(insert bacon joke)

[yoda]

Corbny looks very professorial to me, if it wad down to pure intellect im sure hed have Cameron for breakfast(insert bacon joke)

That looks a bit Russian to me, Freudian slip maybe?

Any way looking professional must have a different meaning in your circles TJ,

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=images+for+david+cameron+and+jeremy+corbyn&biw=1396&bih=952&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB8QsARqFQoTCMnvlNmxiMgCFfQ72wodk5MG7A

If you look the part then people might take you seriously