[Archived] The General Election 2015

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

So, Boris Johnson. Assaulter of Germans and children. A hero of legendary status or a carefully concealed nutter? You've got to question why any parents allow their children to be involved in a publicity stunt with him

[K-Hod]

I just don't think he gives a feck does he?

[den]

You're like thousands of other that have fallen for the Tory master plan that pitches working class against working class. Everyone talks about these big families taking all the benefit money, but very few people have ever met any of them. Yes they do exist, no doubt about that, but its pennies in the grand scheme of things in terms welfare costs, but people are daft enough to swallow it up.

Osborne announced the creation of a "national living wage", to be introduced at the same time as the cuts - of £7.20 an hour, up 50p from the current minimum wage. In doing so, he effectively disbanded the Low Pay Commission - the independent body that has been responsible for setting the national minimum wage since it was introduced by Tony Blair's government in 1998. The LPC's board is made up of academics, trade unionists and employers - and their remit is to set a minimum wage that provides both a reasonable floor for workers without costing too many jobs. Osborne's "living wage" fails at both counts. It is some way short of a genuine living wage - it is 70p short of where the living wage is today, and will likely be further off the pace by April 2016

The Tories are plunging families into poverty and more scandalous than that child poverty has massively increased under these idiots. Then we have bedroom tax and the forced sale of social housing, so basically if they sell all the social housing where will the poorest in society live? in the poorhouse?

But the country voted them in, or at least some did, you should all hang your heads in shame if you did.

One for you Gav.

http://youtu.be/cwfoP0DshgQ

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

You're like thousands of other that have fallen for the Tory master plan that pitches working class against working class. Everyone talks about these big families taking all the benefit money, but very few people have ever met any of them. Yes they do exist, no doubt about that, but its pennies in the grand scheme of things in terms welfare costs, but people are daft enough to swallow it up.

Osborne announced the creation of a "national living wage", to be introduced at the same time as the cuts - of £7.20 an hour, up 50p from the current minimum wage. In doing so, he effectively disbanded the Low Pay Commission - the independent body that has been responsible for setting the national minimum wage since it was introduced by Tony Blair's government in 1998. The LPC's board is made up of academics, trade unionists and employers - and their remit is to set a minimum wage that provides both a reasonable floor for workers without costing too many jobs. Osborne's "living wage" fails at both counts. It is some way short of a genuine living wage - it is 70p short of where the living wage is today, and will likely be further off the pace by April 2016

The Tories are plunging families into poverty and more scandalous than that child poverty has massively increased under these idiots. Then we have bedroom tax and the forced sale of social housing, so basically if they sell all the social housing where will the poorest in society live? in the poorhouse?

But the country voted them in, or at least some did, you should all hang your heads in shame if you did.

Don't know about hanging heads in shame, but its about time the left of the political spectrum analysed their behavior since the election. Becaue when you consider the numerous (occasionally violent) protests, and the extent of the Tory election win, it has been pathetic at best and dictatorially aggressive at worst. Do you believe in democracy Gav? Do your fellow Labour supporters? Because their behaviour of late has implied anything but. Frankly it's Facist and dangerous. About time the Corbyn brigade developed perspective and accepted their view, however vociferously voiced, is not the majority one.

[K-Hod]

I'd say it's simply about right and wrong SKH.

It's not right to ignore non-doms and the super rich not paying the requisite tax,while punishing some of the most vulnerable in society instead, who can't stand up for themselves.

Meanwhile, every other week there's a programme on about benefits and it shows people seemingly sponging and taking the proverbial, all the while never really showing much balance. (Vs. 1 panorama programme about tax evasion)

It's hardly a fair fight and it makes me angry. Yes, there are people on benefits that take the proverbial, and they make me angry too. But ultimately, as Gav said, people have fallen for the narrative about people on benefits being the problem, when tax evasion costs the country more than benefit fraud, I fail to see how this is possible.

People on low incomes rely on working tax credits etc, all this will lead to is more poverty.

But, as long as they're all right Jack eh?

[JBiz]

When 90% of all wealth is divided between 1% of a country it's difficult to see how punishing those who require some sort of benefit as a long term fix.

If we need money to improve services and quality of life in this country, shouldn't we be prioritising that those 1% are fairly taxed?

The Facebook post on here was something that I'd not seen before, when you look at that combined with a dozen other ways in which companies make billions in this country yet pay less tax than me?

The system has been backwards for years- even blaming labour for a "deficit" is just buying into political rhetoric that's designed to make you vote.

There is still far to much of a divide, and it won't change whilst people close their eyes and ears to reality yet buy into what ever story their favourite red top or chip paper is passing on.

[Gav]

One for you Gav.

Yes I watched it den, that lady is typical of thousands of working families who are going to punished for actually going out to work rather than sitting at home claiming welfare.

The Tories probably realise its an own goal, but Osborne can't do a u-turn now because it'll hurt his ambitions to be prime minister, so b0llox to the poorest families that are going to suffer, George has bigger fish to fry

[Mike E]

What annoyed me about that episode of QT is that this poor lady's point was completely ignored. After she spoke they just carried on talking about (if memory serves) grammar schools.

[Gav]

What annoyed me about that episode of QT is that this poor lady's point was completely ignored. After she spoke they just carried on talking about (if memory serves) grammar schools.

Yes i know what you mean, its a difficult balance, do they probe for more and have her crying her eyes out or leave the point alone, it was a powerful piece of TV, very heart felt.

Everyone thinks that the cuts to welfare only impact on the workshy, when in fact they're hammering working families the most. The Tory machine has played a blinder, pulled the wool over thousands of peoples eyes and continues to do so.

The social housing stock sell off, lack of new builds to cover any potential sell off, and a disastrous compulsory 1% reduction in social housing rents which is already resulting in social landlords being unable to now fund further building, is another blatant attack on the poorest in society. Yes a 1% reduction in rent seems great to the people that have housing, but as mortgages becomes less and less affordable year upon year where are the new social houses coming from when the Tories are trying to sell them off???? No government has built masses of houses for decades and the reduction in rental income means no social landlord can plug the gap either.

But people are just blind to whats going on, I'm not making this stuff up, its as black and white as that, wrapped up in Tory PR that they're the party to get the workshy off the settee, absolute nonsense, they're the party for the rich, sod the poor, leave them and their kids to rot.

Disgusting.

[yoda]

Yes i know what you mean, its a difficult balance, do they probe for more and have her crying her eyes out or leave the point alone, it was a powerful piece of TV, very heart felt.

Everyone thinks that the cuts to welfare only impact on the workshy, when in fact they're hammering working families the most. The Tory machine has played a blinder, pulled the wool over thousands of peoples eyes and continues to do so.

The social housing stock sell off, lack of new builds to cover any potential sell off, and a disastrous compulsory 1% reduction in social housing rents which is already resulting in social landlords being unable to now fund further building, is another blatant attack on the poorest in society. Yes a 1% reduction in rent seems great to the people that have housing, but as mortgages becomes less and less affordable year upon year where are the new social houses coming from when the Tories are trying to sell them off???? No government has built masses of houses for decades and the reduction in rental income means no social landlord can plug the gap either.

But people are just blind to whats going on, I'm not making this stuff up, its as black and white as that, wrapped up in Tory PR that they're the party to get the workshy off the settee, absolute nonsense, they're the party for the rich, sod the poor, leave them and their kids to rot.

Disgusting.

What are you going to do about it ?

[Gav]

What are you going to do about it ?

Well I'll never vote Tory, and keep educating people on whats going on.

You won't find me spitting at Tory delegates attending the party conference, they're just scumbags, probably worse than the Tories themselves.

How about you? what would you do?

[yoda]

Well I'll never vote Tory, and keep educating people on whats going on.

You won't find me spitting at Tory delegates attending the party conference, they're just scumbags, probably worse than the Tories themselves.

How about you? what would you do?

I would renew the right to buy but also give councils the right to build again using the proceeds.

Return Gas, Electricity and Water to public ownership but in PLC status.

Keep a nuclear deterrent.

Rewrite the Barnet formula to stop the Scots sponging off the rest of the UK.

Keep the working tax credit.

Anyone claiming benefits who is deemed fit for work to carry out work in the community while looking for work.

Set a maximum household for benefit claim amounts.

Make it compulsory for landlords to keep rented properties in an acceptable minimum condition (including local authorities)

Limit City bonuses and completely separate retail banking from merchant banking.

Reclaim our legal system and borders.

That should do for the 1st week

[Gav]

I would renew the right to buy but also give councils the right to build again using the proceeds.

Return Gas, Electricity and Water to public ownership but in PLC status.

Keep a nuclear deterrent.

Rewrite the Barnet formula to stop the Scots sponging off the rest of the UK.

Keep the working tax credit.

Anyone claiming benefits who is deemed fit for work to carry out work in the community while looking for work.

Set a maximum household for benefit claim amounts.

Make it compulsory for landlords to keep rented properties in an acceptable minimum condition (including local authorities)

Limit City bonuses and completely separate retail banking from merchant banking.

Reclaim our legal system and borders.

That should do for the 1st week

I missed the point didn't I

I'll have a think and get back to you

[yoda]

I missed the point didn't I

I'll have a think and get back to you

Go at your own speed GAV, don't try to hard to keep up

[Lancs Rover]

I would renew the right to buy but also give councils the right to build again using the proceeds.

Return Gas, Electricity and Water to public ownership but in PLC status.

Keep a nuclear deterrent.

Rewrite the Barnet formula to stop the Scots sponging off the rest of the UK.

Keep the working tax credit.

Anyone claiming benefits who is deemed fit for work to carry out work in the community while looking for work.

Set a maximum household for benefit claim amounts.

Make it compulsory for landlords to keep rented properties in an acceptable minimum condition (including local authorities)

Limit City bonuses and completely separate retail banking from merchant banking.

Reclaim our legal system and borders.

That should do for the 1st week

Not sure I would agree with most of this Yoda but I would add dismantle our education system so that kids are not spoon-fed a diet of facts that passes as education.

I agree with most above. We don't have a meritocracy in the UK. Just a political system that tries to make it look like we do. And gives us all someone else to look down on as underachievers.

If we had an education system that encouraged young people to value thinking about the world critically we might get somewhere. (Schools won't do it because they are penalised in the exam/Ofsted system for taking risks and innovating.) Otherwise, we will end up where we pretty much are: unreflective, media-induced soaking up of politcal lies by a populace with few higher values than 'what can I spend my money on'.

[yoda]

Not sure I would agree with most of this Yoda but I would add dismantle our education system so that kids are not spoon-fed a diet of facts that passes as education.

I agree with most above. We don't have a meritocracy in the UK. Just a political system that tries to make it look like we do. And gives us all someone else to look down on as underachievers.

If we had an education system that encouraged young people to value thinking about the world critically we might get somewhere. (Schools won't do it because they are penalised in the exam/Ofsted system for taking risks and innovating.) Otherwise, we will end up where we pretty much are: unreflective, media-induced soaking up of politcal lies by a populace with few higher values than 'what can I spend my money on'.

The bold bits, is there an error ?

I would agree one size does not fit all when it comes to educating children, is the elephant in the room that no one knows how to evaluate properly individual education needs.

I also don't think that the better "educated" you are means you will spend any wiser

[K-Hod]

Good posts there Yoda!

[Mike E]

As someone training while there's upheaval in education, there is a shift in how kids are taught. Much of what we try to teach kids begins from what they want to know, supplementing that with the curriculum and (in the age of the internet) giving out links for them to research the areas about to be taught.

There's a definite movement from teaching 'just facts' to teaching kids to take risks, to think for themselves, and to question and criticise. Even at Primary age.

[Baz]

As someone training while there's upheaval in education, there is a shift in how kids are taught. Much of what we try to teach kids begins from what they want to know, supplementing that with the curriculum and (in the age of the internet) giving out links for them to research the areas about to be taught.

There's a definite movement from teaching 'just facts' to teaching kids to take risks, to think for themselves, and to question and criticise. Even at Primary age.

Have to say critical thinking is something that's been missing for a long time.

One of our greatest abilities as a nation is science, so it's good to hear our education system is moving back toward this.

[Mike E]

Have to say critical thinking is something that's been missing for a long time.

One of our greatest abilities as a nation is science, so it's good to hear our education system is moving back toward this.

It will only work as well as the children's own ability to think abstractly, which is usually developed around 12-14 years old.

However, if it gets younger children at least trying, it'll be worth it even something as simple as understanding when information contradicts itself can be a fair leap for a 9 or 10 year old.

[Gav]

Just on tax credits and those lying swines in government, this is the sort of people we have running the country:

David Cameron's government is slashing tax credits for working people - breaking a promise he made to the British people just days before the general election.

He made the pledge not once, but twice.

Working tax credits top up the salaries of Britain's most poorly paid people, and child tax credits help low income families make ends meet.

Millions of working families claim BOTH benefits - and they can be worth thousands of pounds a year.

Mr Cameron promised not to cut tax credits. Three months later the cuts were in George Osborne's budget

Mr Cameron made his promise in the BBC Question Time election special on April 30.

The exchange came when an audience member asked Mr Cameron to 'put to bed' rumours he'd cut child tax credit, or restrict child benefit to two children.

The idea was put forward in a report by the respected Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank.

He replied: "Thank you Jenny for that question.

"No, I don't want to do that. This report that's out today is something I rejected at the time as Prime Minister and I reject it again today."

Host David Dimbleby then pushed him on the detail, saying some people were clearly worried.

The PM replied: "Child tax credit we increased by £450."

"And it's not going to fall?" asked the presenter.

The PM confirmed: "It's not going to fall."

[yoda]

Are child tax credits different to working tax credits ?

[K-Hod]

Are child tax credits different to working tax credits ?

https://www.gov.uk/child-tax-credit

https://www.gov.uk/working-tax-credit

[yoda]

https://www.gov.uk/child-tax-credit

https://www.gov.uk/working-tax-credit

So Cameron may well not be telling lies as per GAV's post above

[Baz]

Semantics at best, Im guessing that the majority of people wouldn't recognise the difference in child tax credits and working tax credits.

However, if you watch the video Dimbleby said people rely on child credit and working credits to which Cameron said its not going to fall.

Either way Cameron has gone back on his words.

Personally I think the overall idea is good, in that tax credits have allowed businesses to pay lower wages, and the gap needs to be met by business. However there is a clear lack of understanding by the government of the budgets of many people if they think they can take it away, and replace it with minimum wage increases over 5 years.

Id be amazed if the Tories don't adjust this, if they don't it could be this generations Poll tax.