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[Archived] The General Election 2015


General Election  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. How will you vote on May 7th?

    • Labour
      15
    • Conservative
      14
    • Liberal Democrats
      4
    • UK Independence Party
      11
    • Scottish National Party
      1
    • Green
      0
    • Respect
      1
    • Democratic Unionist Party
      0
    • Plaid Cymru
      1
    • SDLP
      0
    • Alliance Party
      0
    • No one - They are all a shower of s#@t
      10


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There is a new topic on household waste permits which is very interesting. I don't want to divert it so I'll comment here. In summary beyond a small limit householders will now have to pay to dispose of many things we have previously taken to the tip for free.

Is this fair? Overall yes I think it is as the polluter should pay and when anyone of us throws out a fridge or bath we become a polluter. Currently if a householder employs a builder to fit a new bathroom the builder will charge for waste disposal. If it's a DIY project the DIYer can currently dump the old bath for free. So this move by LCC is entirely fair.

Al asks if it makes financial sense? That's questionable as an increase in fly tipping may well result. Hopefully responsible hardworking households will use the tip and pay accordingly. Look at who is paying.

Now here is the point. The Conservatives have promised no major tax increases, by law, for five years. What business promises no price increase to customers in five years? Cameron believes honest hard working people should have the choice as to how to spend their money. What can we spend it on? Services which to date our local taxes have paid for. Make absolutely no mistake returning a Conservative government tomorrow will lead to more and more charges of this type paid for by honest hardworking families.

Is this financially fair? No. The cost of disposing of a bath is small but the cost is the same to the man earning £10k as to the man earning £100k. It may seem contradictory to say this. It's fair the polluter should pay and we should all contribute equally to society. What is not fair, and the Conservatives claim this is not their policy, is to continually hit the less well off while allowing the wealthy to pay proportionately less. This new permit is a clear example of how Tory tax cuts and austerity impact directly on the very people whose interest they claim to have at heart.

Can we really believe Cameron?

This is where five years of austerity have taken us. LCC have cut far more than any of us notice in our daily lives before such charges were considered.

We enjoy and expect high standards in this country. Standards which have to be paid for. What we need is political parties strong and brave enough to recognise this. We cannot carry on trying to fund the state on the cheap. Taxes need to rise. Yes we need efficiency but it should be blindingly obvious to all if we want to enjoy a service one way or another it has to be funded. Cut, cut, cut does not work.

I'm not sure if Labour can tackle the problems. One thing is certain though another five years of Conservative lead austerity will see honest hardworking families paying their taxes in a whole range of new ways - all of which Conservative government will deny are tax increases.

The idea of freezing major taxes for five years is a con. Before voting tomorrow consider what else the Conservafives will allow you to chose to pay for from your hard earned, low taxed income.

It might just be a waste permit but it's a strong indicator of what is around the corner.

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If you go on a work-related course you shouldn't have to pay, public or private. And why should you - you were on a training course to make you a better worker.

But you still don't get it. State spending is not spending for spending's sake, but investment to make the country and workers more productive.

It is easy to understand. Investment in healthcare increases economic productivity by keeping workers healthy and alive for longer, investment in education is economically beneficial because educated workers are productive workers, investment in policing is economically beneficial because crime is one of the most economically harmful activities.

Investment in welfare payments to the extremely poor are beneficial, since poor people tend to spend their money in the local economy and the relatively low cost of welfare is much smaller than economic damage if desperate people start turning to criminal activities in order to meet their basic needs.

Pennies compared to the billions squirrelled away by the super rich.

Totally agree with your points here Jim. The NHS has widely been rated as the best or one of the best value for money health systems in the world. It is not perfect but really strong comparatively. Absolutely wipes the floor with what is available in the US and most of Europe for the same cost to consumer and state. We need to keep up the good work and invest in it. Luckily it has a strong cross constituency who are supporting it which is great.

Education is more problematic. Again we have a strong state system competitive with major developed nations across the world. Again wipes the floor with the US. We are very good at producing creative graduates particularly and dominating financial services. We do have weaknesses in science, engineering and maths. However the lack of investment is worrying. We only devote 12% of the budget to education which is bizarre when you consider of all expenditure it is the one (alongside health) you can make back on through higher productivity. Also the way teachers are treated by sections of the press, political establishment, and public is aggressive and nonconstructive. Quality education - alongside strong political, judicial and economic institutions - is one of the key reasons we are a wealthy country. If we wish to become wealthier still further investment in education is required. I am worried we will be left behind.

Also schools are the largest "contact" public service which the vast majoritybof British citizens gets to know intimately. Schools are (or should be) the centre of communities for parents and children. I feel we could do more with them.

Compared to education and health we spend a disproportionate amount on benefits and pensions. Its ethical and important, but ultimately sunk money. We need to try and invest more and sink less to grow the economy faster. I would like to see some quality work by the political parties to come up with ideas to redress this imbalance.

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http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-england-32595003

Like it or not, UKIP seems to attract the xenophobes and bigots to join its ranks. This bloke was selected to be one of their candidates for goodness sake!

They are simply not ready to be a mainstream party. Not until they put their own house in order and get rid of members like this clown.

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Jim.... It's a balancing act. An accounting principle. We are not under a Labour govt run by Brown and Balls, we can't spend more than we bring in, and we can't spend proportionately more of welfare than on any other vital service. As our population increases for whatever reasons whether immigration, migration, birth rate then so does the welfare bill. If we don't cut our coat according to our cloth then sooner or later the elastic will snap.

The last govt did a marvellous job of re-vitalising the lame duck economy which they inherited in 2010 to the extent that we have created conditions to provide countless thousands of jobs and are leading the way in economic growth across the Eu. Thats what pays the bills. It's not the govt that creates wealth, that is done by business and the economy in general, all the govt does is gain revenue by taxation and then distribute it. If the people of this nation want more money spending on health and welfare then it's pretty clear that it has to be earned first. Only when that is sorted can we then decide where it's to be spent.

Just an observation based on observations over my lifetime but the more secure and 'comfortable' the nation is both economically and socially the more likely it is to elect a Labour govt. The more threatened and insecure the nation feels and they return to electing the Conservative leadership that they trust. It's become a self fulfilling prophecy.

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As you well know, im talking about the likes of multinationals choosing where to pay their taxes, ftse 100 ceo's who are being paid overseas etc not ISAs. Osborne obviously thought there is an issue or he wouldn't have announced he was going to legislate.

Anybody who pays tax they can legitimately avoid is stupid and a company who does it fails it's shareholders. We all pay enough tax without volunteering to pay what can be avoided.

Defending a losing argument there Im afraid.

Can I opt out of paying income tax, so i can spend the money on a bentley, to keep the bentley staff employed?

Bet you would if you could so don't knock the ones who can.

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There is a new topic on household waste permits which is very interesting. I don't want to divert it so I'll comment here. In summary beyond a small limit householders will now have to pay to dispose of many things we have previously taken to the tip for free.

Is this fair? Overall yes I think it is as the polluter should pay and when anyone of us throws out a fridge or bath we become a polluter. Currently if a householder employs a builder to fit a new bathroom the builder will charge for waste disposal. If it's a DIY project the DIYer can currently dump the old bath for free. So this move by LCC is entirely fair.

Al asks if it makes financial sense? That's questionable as an increase in fly tipping may well result. Hopefully responsible hardworking households will use the tip and pay accordingly. Look at who is paying.

Now here is the point. The Conservatives have promised no major tax increases, by law, for five years. What business promises no price increase to customers in five years? Cameron believes honest hard working people should have the choice as to how to spend their money. What can we spend it on? Services which to date our local taxes have paid for. Make absolutely no mistake returning a Conservative government tomorrow will lead to more and more charges of this type paid for by honest hardworking families.

Is this financially fair? No. The cost of disposing of a bath is small but the cost is the same to the man earning £10k as to the man earning £100k. It may seem contradictory to say this. It's fair the polluter should pay and we should all contribute equally to society. What is not fair, and the Conservatives claim this is not their policy, is to continually hit the less well off while allowing the wealthy to pay proportionately less. This new permit is a clear example of how Tory tax cuts and austerity impact directly on the very people whose interest they claim to have at heart.

Can we really believe Cameron?

This is where five years of austerity have taken us. LCC have cut far more than any of us notice in our daily lives before such charges were considered.

We enjoy and expect high standards in this country. Standards which have to be paid for. What we need is political parties strong and brave enough to recognise this. We cannot carry on trying to fund the state on the cheap. Taxes need to rise. Yes we need efficiency but it should be blindingly obvious to all if we want to enjoy a service one way or another it has to be funded. Cut, cut, cut does not work.

I'm not sure if Labour can tackle the problems. One thing is certain though another five years of Conservative lead austerity will see honest hardworking families paying their taxes in a whole range of new ways - all of which Conservative government will deny are tax increases.

The idea of freezing major taxes for five years is a con. Before voting tomorrow consider what else the Conservafives will allow you to chose to pay for from your hard earned, low taxed income.

It might just be a waste permit but it's a strong indicator of what is around the corner.

It does. You are puddled. Do you want to means test everything? Should you pay £2 per litre for your car fuel and someone pay £1 because you earn more than them? How about a new shirt? tin of beans? pint of beer? loaf of bread? How would you feel if BRFC subjected your ST's to a means test? You pay £500 and the bloke sitting in the very next seat pays £200 simply because you have worked hard and 'got on'. Means testing more and more things would simply deny the ones you love most ... your own family!

I've already explained to you the disproportionate burden of tax on higher earners and how lower earners will never ever pay their way through life yet you still come out with all this nonsense.

As far as freezing taxes read this... http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/23/uk-wages-to-rise-above-inflation-for-2015-study-shows

Now I've selected that from the Guardian because even with their left wing bias it appears that looking forward pay is set to rise by 3.5% across the board. Taking this into account and also the thousands of new jobs created by the coalition govt then surely tax revenue will automatically increase by MORE than this figure given that in the vast majority of cases ALL the 3.5% will be subject to tax and NHI contributions and there will be far more people paying in. Never mind all the hand wringing over tax revenue Paul it's down to basic arithmatic and a touch of common sense.

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I can't disagree with much of your post thenodrog but there is an alternative. If the people want better services of whatever nature they must be prepared to pay for them. Yes that can be achieved by economic growth and consequently increased tax revenues. Alternatively we put our hands in our pockets now and pay the real cost through increased taxation.

Nothing comes free though everyone seems to think the mythical "they" should pay for it.

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There is a new topic on household waste permits which is very interesting. I don't want to divert it so I'll comment here. In summary beyond a small limit householders will now have to pay to dispose of many things we have previously taken to the tip for free.

Is this fair? Overall yes I think it is as the polluter should pay and when anyone of us throws out a fridge or bath we become a polluter. Currently if a householder employs a builder to fit a new bathroom the builder will charge for waste disposal. If it's a DIY project the DIYer can currently dump the old bath for free. So this move by LCC is entirely fair.

Al asks if it makes financial sense? That's questionable as an increase in fly tipping may well result. Hopefully responsible hardworking households will use the tip and pay accordingly. Look at who is paying.

Now here is the point. The Conservatives have promised no major tax increases, by law, for five years. What business promises no price increase to customers in five years? Cameron believes honest hard working people should have the choice as to how to spend their money. What can we spend it on? Services which to date our local taxes have paid for. Make absolutely no mistake returning a Conservative government tomorrow will lead to more and more charges of this type paid for by honest hardworking families.

Is this financially fair? No. The cost of disposing of a bath is small but the cost is the same to the man earning £10k as to the man earning £100k. It may seem contradictory to say this. It's fair the polluter should pay and we should all contribute equally to society. What is not fair, and the Conservatives claim this is not their policy, is to continually hit the less well off while allowing the wealthy to pay proportionately less. This new permit is a clear example of how Tory tax cuts and austerity impact directly on the very people whose interest they claim to have at heart.

Can we really believe Cameron?

This is where five years of austerity have taken us. LCC have cut far more than any of us notice in our daily lives before such charges were considered.

We enjoy and expect high standards in this country. Standards which have to be paid for. What we need is political parties strong and brave enough to recognise this. We cannot carry on trying to fund the state on the cheap. Taxes need to rise. Yes we need efficiency but it should be blindingly obvious to all if we want to enjoy a service one way or another it has to be funded. Cut, cut, cut does not work.

I'm not sure if Labour can tackle the problems. One thing is certain though another five years of Conservative lead austerity will see honest hardworking families paying their taxes in a whole range of new ways - all of which Conservative government will deny are tax increases.

The idea of freezing major taxes for five years is a con. Before voting tomorrow consider what else the Conservafives will allow you to chose to pay for from your hard earned, low taxed income.

It might just be a waste permit but it's a strong indicator of what is around the corner.

What are you proposing Paul, means tested waste disposal?

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UKIP are a glorified personality cult, in other words.

Must say I need to know more about this vote swapping thing. Kate Hollern the embittered scottish candidate for Blackburn has done secret deals with the muslim community to not oppose her nomination as Jack Straw's replacement in return for getting control of key positions in the council. Effectively it's a done deal and no one really can do anything about it. However I do believe Farage would greatly embellish the House of Commons and prove a thorn in the side of whichever coalition gains power. In fact I'd challenge anyone to put forward a sound argument to disagree with that as topics have been debated in the press and media and in the Commons that would never have been aired without the threat of UKIP on the 3 main parties.

I can't disagree with much of your post thenodrog but there is an alternative. If the people want better services of whatever nature they must be prepared to pay for them. Yes that can be achieved by economic growth and consequently increased tax revenues. Alternatively we put our hands in our pockets now and pay the real cost through increased taxation.

Nothing comes free though everyone seems to think the mythical "they" should pay for it.

Amen to that!

btw same applies down at BRFC. Everybody wants a top team but few want to actually pay for one. A situation that will apply at every other club too, hence the gross misuse of the terms 'invest' or 'investors' within football.

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Jim.... It's a balancing act. An accounting principle. We are not under a Labour govt run by Brown and Balls, we can't spend more than we bring in, and we can't spend proportionately more of welfare than on any other vital service. As our population increases for whatever reasons whether immigration, migration, birth rate then so does the welfare bill. If we don't cut our coat according to our cloth then sooner or later the elastic will snap.

The last govt did a marvellous job of re-vitalising the lame duck economy which they inherited in 2010 to the extent that we have created conditions to provide countless thousands of jobs and are leading the way in economic growth across the Eu. Thats what pays the bills. It's not the govt that creates wealth, that is done by business and the economy in general, all the govt does is gain revenue by taxation and then distribute it. If the people of this nation want more money spending on health and welfare then it's pretty clear that it has to be earned first. Only when that is sorted can we then decide where it's to be spent.

Just an observation based on observations over my lifetime but the more secure and 'comfortable' the nation is both economically and socially the more likely it is to elect a Labour govt. The more threatened and insecure the nation feels and they return to electing the Conservative leadership that they trust. It's become a self fulfilling prophecy.

I've already pointed out to you that governments create wealth and "pay the bills" through investment, not just the private sector. I also need to remind you that governments have to bail out the private sector when it threatens to ruin the country - as happened in the banking sector crisis of 2008.

Countries aren't run like a corner shop or family finances. They use debt and thrive on debt because debt invested in infrastructure and research and training creates jobs and growth.

You also need reminding that the economic recovery has only taken place in the past 18 months (and only then after the Tories performed their usual trick of inflating the housing market through Help To Buy) and that for 3 and half years the poorest and weakest in society have suffered most from an ideologically-driven programme of austerity cuts.

There's already signs it is running out of steam and like all property bubbles, this recovery has been built not on investment and training and productivity but built on sand.

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What are you proposing Paul, means tested waste disposal?

Didn't some councils have the crazy idea of putting weigh cells on refuse trucks in order to weigh rubbish from individual households and bill the householder accordingly? :wstu: Some parts of Blackburn would be knee deep in rubbish as back alleys became viable landfill sites.

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I've already pointed out to you that governments create wealth and "pay the bills" through investment, not just the private sector. I also need to remind you that governments have to bail out the private sector when it threatens to ruin the country - as happened in the banking sector crisis of 2008.

Countries aren't run like a corner shop or family finances. They use debt and thrive on debt because debt invested in infrastructure and research and training creates jobs and growth.

You also need reminding that the economic recovery has only taken place in the past 18 months (and only then after the Tories performed their usual trick of inflating the housing market through Help To Buy) and that for 3 and half years the poorest and weakest in society have suffered most from an ideologically-driven programme of austerity cuts.

There's already signs it is running out of steam and like all property bubbles, this recovery has been built not on investment and training and productivity but built on sand.

As a result of the lasting legacy of the last Labour govt.

People bang on about austerity like it's a Conservative invention but hark back to Alastair Darling's words BEFORE the last election.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/alistair-darling-cut-deeper-margaret-thatcher

Quite clear to all surely that Labour would have made deeper cuts than the Tories.

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As a result of the lasting legacy of the last Labour govt.

People bang on about austerity like it's a Conservative invention but hark back to Alastair Darling's words BEFORE the last election.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/alistair-darling-cut-deeper-margaret-thatcher

Quite clear to all surely that Labour would have made deeper cuts than the Tories.

I've provided links for you many times showing this is wrong - do you never read them ?

Darling said cuts had to be made but he wouldn't have targeted those who can't fight back. The Tories aren't known as the nasty party for nothing.

Didn't some councils have the crazy idea of putting weigh cells on refuse trucks in order to weigh rubbish from individual households and bill the householder accordingly? :wstu: Some parts of Blackburn would be knee deep in rubbish as back alleys became viable landfill sites.

You want lower taxes and cuts in public spending and this what you get. it's your choice.

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http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-england-32595003

Like it or not, UKIP seems to attract the xenophobes and bigots to join its ranks. This bloke was selected to be one of their candidates for goodness sake!

They are simply not ready to be a mainstream party. Not until they put their own house in order and get rid of members like this clown.

I'm no UKIP supporter but Farage is a breath of fresh air with his no nonsense approach to the hard questions, he tells it as it is and thats rarity.

As for his party, its still relatively new, you're always going to have bad eggs in a relatively new party.

What gets on my wick is the constant references to UKIP being a party of racists. They’re proposing an immigration system like they have in Australia, nobody calls them racist, double standards and fuelled by the mainstream parties worried about the rise of UKIP.

All that said they’re mainly Tories, so no chance I’ll be voting for them.

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Labour not responsible for crash, says former Bank of England governor

http://gu.com/p/44feg/sbl

Correct, it was the BNP who pulled out of the sub prime market in the USA (practically overnight) that started it.

Labour was responsible however for the large amount of borrowing and debt they had piled up that could no longer be funded by the level of taxes that were being received.

It is the Labour way, borrow now and let the kids pick up the tab later.

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Labour not responsible for crash, says former Bank of England governor

http://gu.com/p/44feg/sbl

They weren't but their ability to respond to a sudden economic downturn was hampered by excess borrowing instead of saving for a rainy day. The economy was booming when they came in and they should have been running a surplus to save for the rainy day that would eventually come. Brown genuinely believed that he had changed the rules and abolished 'boom and bust', he was wrong. You cannot break the cycle.

To go off on a slight tangent, what are everyone's predictions?

I'm going for the Conservatives to win the vote % by about 3% resulting in them having most seats (something in the range of 275-290). Labour 20-30 seats behind and the Lib Dems actually holding up better than predicted thanks to some tactical voting.

Come Friday morning we think that Labour will get in propped up and having to rely on the SNP to pass legislation but Cameron will get first go. He will try and form a government with Lib Dem and DUP backing and put forward a Queen's speech with policies such as tax cuts etc and then dare Lab and the SNP to vote it down. After that who knows what will happen.

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I've provided links for you many times showing this is wrong - do you never read them ?

Darling said cuts had to be made but he wouldn't have targeted those who can't fight back. The Tories aren't known as the nasty party for nothing.

Don't shoot the messenger. You need to take it up with Darling and the guardian if you disagree with his comments jim.

Anyway try this then. Not just Darling saying it this is by Ed Balls .........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11326446/Ed-Balls-forced-to-admit-Labour-could-cut-5billion-in-first-year-of-Government.html

"The dossier claimed that Labour would reverse more than £5billion-worth of cuts planned by the Coalition in 2015/16. However this was categorically denied by Mr Balls. Rather, the shadow Chancellor said he was “explicit that Labour would not reverse" these cuts. According to the dossier, this will mean in practice cutting £3.3billion from councils’ budgets, £700million from the pay of members of the armed forces and £400million off the NHS pay bill.

Mr Balls said: “They say we will reverse over £5 billion of cuts they have made in 2015/16 - but we have been explicit that we won’t. "We will have to govern with less money, which means the next Labour government will have to make cuts too.” Mr Balls also admitted that sticking to Coalition spending plans would also mean no new cash to fund pay rises for tens of thousands of public sector staff in 2015/16. Departments would to have to find money to pay for pay rises themselves in following years."

and then this by Miliband...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/21/labour-spending-cuts-hars_n_3480442.html

Politicians think we've all got goldfish memories don't they?

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I'm no UKIP supporter but Farage is a breath of fresh air with his no nonsense approach to the hard questions, he tells it as it is and thats rarity.

As for his party, its still relatively new, you're always going to have bad eggs in a relatively new party.

What gets on my wick is the constant references to UKIP being a party of racists. They’re proposing an immigration system like they have in Australia, nobody calls them racist, double standards and fuelled by the mainstream parties worried about the rise of UKIP.

All that said they’re mainly Tories, so no chance I’ll be voting for them.

You were doing OK there until your slip showed. Can you afford to allow yourself such a closed mind?

Tory press was foaming at the mouth yesterday. Today it's gone totally bananas.

Anyone who likes an underdog would want to see this lot proved wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/may/06/sun-ed-miliband-labour-mail-telegraph-election

"Well they would say that wouldn't they?" Mandy Rice Davies. ^_^

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They weren't but their ability to respond to a sudden economic downturn was hampered by excess borrowing instead of saving for a rainy day. The economy was booming when they came in and they should have been running a surplus to save for the rainy day that would eventually come. Brown genuinely believed that he had changed the rules and abolished 'boom and bust', he was wrong. You cannot break the cycle.

To go off on a slight tangent, what are everyone's predictions?

I'm going for the Conservatives to win the vote % by about 3% resulting in them having most seats (something in the range of 275-290). Labour 20-30 seats behind and the Lib Dems actually holding up better than predicted thanks to some tactical voting.

Come Friday morning we think that Labour will get in propped up and having to rely on the SNP to pass legislation but Cameron will get first go. He will try and form a government with Lib Dem and DUP backing and put forward a Queen's speech with policies such as tax cuts etc and then dare Lab and the SNP to vote it down. After that who knows what will happen.

Well for what it's worth I'd rather turn the tables and be voting in a referendum in England now on whether we want Scotland part of the Union or not. They cost us a fortune, are promising virtual anarchy in place of democracy after the election and the lot of em would be up @#/? creek without a paddle if we cut them adfrift. A deep water port for Trident is all we need and then Salmond and Sturgeons goose would be well and truly cooked.

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I'm no UKIP supporter but Farage is a breath of fresh air with his no nonsense approach to the hard questions, he tells it as it is and thats rarity.

As for his party, its still relatively new, you're always going to have bad eggs in a relatively new party.

What gets on my wick is the constant references to UKIP being a party of racists. They’re proposing an immigration system like they have in Australia, nobody calls them racist, double standards and fuelled by the mainstream parties worried about the rise of UKIP.

All that said they’re mainly Tories, so no chance I’ll be voting for them.

You were doing great until the last line GAV. Obviously indoctrinated by a socialist family from an early age.

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To go off on a slight tangent, what are everyone's predictions?

Sad to say from my point of view I think the Con-Lib Dems will sneak in again. There are great swathes of the population who don't really follow politics or the economy for that matter and they will be swayed by the hysterical wall of negative publicity from the rightwing media against Ed Miliband. My hope is that sense will prevail and people will remember the damage this government have done to this country and vote for a change - we desperately need a new sense of direction and a dismantling of the neo-liberal consensus that has enriched the few at the expense of the majority over the past 30 years.

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