[Archived] The General Election 2015

[dave birch]

You can have a mixed system as in Ireland. Bundle 5 constituencies together, have PR between them. Hand out the five seats on vote numbers.

That could work.

[Gav]

Don't worry about the North of England gav for one you are leaving your urban idyll of Bastwell but we've got the North West economic powerhouse and HS2 to help us.... you save your concern for the

.

You're obsessed with my living arrangements, who says the Tories don't care about the working classes!

[chaddyrovers]

Started by Labour K-Hod.

Tony Blair brought in the private health companies into the NHS when he was PM.

[yoda]

Down to business,

scrap the Barnet formula (just to wipe the smile of Sturgeon's mug) re arrange some boundaries so that Faslane is in England

Telephone Brussels and say no more powers for you wasters and this is what we want back etc

[Gav]

Tony Blair brought in the private health companies into the NHS when he was PM.

He did indeed Chaddy.

[SouthAussieRover]

Good to see the Lib Dems routed.

Just desserts for selling their souls last time.

[chaddyrovers]

But the cuts to the NHS have been devastating, been to Blackburn Hospital lately?

I hope I don't get ill in the next 5 years!

Actually I have been to Blackburn Hospital very recently.

My GF was in hospital 5 weeks before Christmas. Doctors were useless and arrogant. Until the final doctor she seen diagnose the problem and sorted it. No problems since.

Then I go every 3 months for an eczame check up.

Plus I had a small shoulder op done a few weeks back.

[K-Hod]

Actually I have been to Blackburn Hospital very recently.

My GF was in hospital 5 weeks before Christmas. Doctors were useless and arrogant. Until the final doctor she seen diagnose the problem and sorted it. No problems since.

Then I go every 3 months for an eczame check up.

Plus I had a small shoulder op done a few weeks back.

No issue with the doctors/nurses, it's the lack of them that's the issue!

[thenodrog]

Last night was the most interesting and unpredictable election ever. In summary.

The Polls were useless (until the exit poll which was remarkably accurate).

The unions screwed Labour over by stupidly (both at the time and now) backing Ed over David. Will those reds under the bed never learn?

The British public obviously carry

a. great concerns over the economy which was completely missed by Labour.

b. great concerns over immigration hence the massive switch to UKIP.

c. great concerns that the extreme left wing Scottish tail would wag the Union dog.

Ta Ra to some real political heavyweights.... Vince Cable, Douglas Alexander, Danny Alexander, Mark Reckless to name a few and sadly from a purely personal point of view Esther McVey! wtf was going on in the Wirrell? Not only is she eye candy but from what I hear she was damned good at her job. Compare her to the fresher from Blackburn Kate Hollern.

And ta ra to some complete plonkers lead by Ed Balls and bigger plonker still George Galloway .. the latter in some disgrace too! His Respect party was shown little respect by his previous supporters now that he has nothing left to offer and tactical voting was seen as the better option for getting what they want. He's been dropped like a hot potato and hopefully a victim of that crooked postal vote system. Swim with sharks and you get bitten George.

Something most have known for some time but was picked up strongly last night is that Labour is no longer the party of the left, it's much more black and white than that. By showing up well and against the trend in London and other areas Labour has now become the party of choice for the ethnic vote it seems.

So long I think for Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband and their rather ruthless but very different ambitions . Both of whose positions are surely now untenable, and both of whom looked completely shell shocked. Don't know if Clegg was just overtired from his punishing last few days but I swear when he delivered his 'thank you' speech that his eyes were red and bloodshot as if he'd been crying. Some sympathy for him tbh because his decision to give LibDem voters their first say in British Politics for a generation they turned on him. Very harsh but if you put yourself up to be shot at you will be shot at. Little Ed on the other hand now knows the meaning of 'live by the sword, die by the sword'.

Bloody great performance by David Dimbleby (especially) and BBC team throughout the night. Only adverse comment was that I didn't find the swingometer at all easy to follow.

So, onwards and upwards as they say...

[thenodrog]

PR should be the way to go then Gord.

I haven't thought of this properly so if it's not feasible please say so. Maybe a form of such could be included where ordinarily elected FPTP MP's and constituences are cut to 600 and a %age amounting to 50% after that could be put fwd by their party and elected on the basis of share of the vote. I presume if it was implemented those places would be taken up by MP's who had lost their seats. e.g. Balls, Alexander and Cable for instance and Farage for UKIP.

[Jock]

I for one hope they get rid of child benefit. Paternity leave is another waste of money. Get to work idol dads. If you've spawned them you should pay for them.

[thenodrog]

Come on Gordon, didn't see you see George Osbourne ignoring the question 17 times on how that was going to be funded? Nice of them to put some money back into the NHS after systematic cuts....

The way forward with the NHS is NOT to increase funding but to eliminate waste. The waste of moany and resources is frightening. Don't pay attention to the emotive claptrap in the press and media just talk to anyone who works in the NHS and they will tell you the same.

under a PR system, the state of the parties would look something like this: (I know the seats don't tally exactly, but it's pretty close)

Cons 234

Lab 201

LibD 52

SNP 32

UKIP 83

Oth 48

Wouldn't that make pollies earn their dosh!

You might have put them in proper order to better illustrate your point dave ,

[matt83]

I'm not in to politics really and not a fan of Cameron but the prospect of waking up to the cranks at the SNP with less than 5% of the overall vote forming a coalition govt any having any influence filled me with dread. I suspect a lot of marginal labour/Tory seats felt the same.

One thing I can't get my head round is the fairness of it all. The snp had 5% of the vote with 56 seats, UKIP 13% of the vote but 1 seat. So a party with 8% more of the entire electorate has 5600% less influence in parliament. That's democracy for you.

[thenodrog]

No issue with the doctors/nurses, it's the lack of them that's the issue!

Too many timewasters and assorted malingerers clogging up the system more like.

[only2garners]

The Polls were useless (until the exit poll which was remarkably accurate).

Actually the polls were pretty accurate in terms of % of votes. This was the last BBC Poll of polls - Conservative 34%, Labour 33%, UKIP 13%, Lib Dem 8%, Green 5%. The current actual with a few results to come is Conservatives 36.8%, Labour 30.5%, UKIP 12.6%, Lib Dem 7.8% and Green 3.8%. So the only real change was a 2.65% swing from Labour to Conservative (it's more complicated than that as peoples' votes moved all over the place but that was the net effect).

What went wrong was how the pollsters interpreted the numbers into seats won. For example they clearly overestimated the resilience of incumbent Lib Dem MPs - they thought the personal factor would save more but it worked for very few. And there was probably the return of two previously observed phenomena - that polls usually underestimate the Tory vote (some people don't like to admit they will vote for them) and a late swing back towards the party that was previously in power

[thenodrog]

C'mon own up...... just who tf voted for the Respect party?

[matt83]

I do like it when they interview a main player and there's another candidate usually Monster Raving Loony party in their area just stood in the background as giving a "serious" speech. Very British. Saw boris Johnson but he looked more crazy than the guy in top hat and technicolor dream coat behind him. Miliband nearly in tears trying to be somber and professional had some nutter stood next to him and apparently Cameron had to shake hands with a bloke dressed as a bloody duck.

[thenodrog]

I do like it when they interview a main player and there's another candidate usually Monster Raving Loony party in their area just stood in the background as giving a "serious" speech. Very British. Saw boris Johnson but he looked more crazy than the guy in top hat and technicolor dream coat behind him. Miliband nearly in tears trying to be somber and professional had some nutter stood next to him and apparently Cameron had to shake hands with a bloke dressed as a bloody duck.

Who were those sill feckers in arab headdresses in shot with Cameron with their fingers in the air? What was that all about?

[only2garners]

I haven't thought of this properly so if it's not feasible please say so. Maybe a form of such could be included where ordinarily elected FPTP MP's and constituences are cut to 600 and a %age amounting to 50% after that could be put fwd by their party and elected on the basis of share of the vote. I presume if it was implemented those places would be taken up by MP's who had lost their seats. e.g. Balls, Alexander and Cable for instance and Farage for UKIP.

What you are describing is a modified version of the party list system - it is used in a number of countries. A pure party list system is the most proportional system you can have, but it's not usually very popular as it puts all the power in terms of who actually gets elected into the hands of party machines. You would vote for your party but have little influence on the actual individuals who you elect. Your version would be topping up the numbers of MPs for each party depending on total votes cast but it still has an element of the problem. t also breaks the MP's link with their constituents. Why would an MP elected on the party list work for voters in constituencies - their emphasis would be on pleasing whoever draws up the party lists.

What seems to have some purchase at the moment is a system similar to that used for the European elections - a number of multi-member constituencies electing say 4-6 MPs, where you order them to your personal preference. So the smaller parties would stand a much better chance of picking up some seats. It has the added advantage that voters can pick and choose between candidates of different parties. So, for example, if you were a Conservative but also wanted to help UKIP you could vote for the candidate you most liked of the UKIP candidates and use your other votes to vote Conservative (or the other way round). It would be similar for a Labour voter who wanted to support Green issues.

C'mon own up...... just who tf voted for the Respect party?

Someone who lives in either Bradford, Halifax or Birmingham, because there were only 4 candidates standing.

[Al]

Down to business,

scrap the Barnet formula (just to wipe the smile of Sturgeon's mug) re arrange some boundaries so that Faslane is in England

Telephone Brussels and say no more powers for you wasters and this is what we want back etc

That's in the first hour. Then he will stop the handouts to immigrants and dole dossers. That'll do for day 1.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Just stunned, absolutely stunned.

Never thought this would be the eventual outcome. I thought Conservative most seats but Labour with SNP support would have been greater, never did I think that we would see 1992 all over again.

A few things stand out:

1. The SNP surge was very much as predicted. Labour have a tough task indeed to try and recover from the mauling they have taken and it could take a long time.

2. Clearly in England the fear of the SNP controlling government put the fear of god into voters at the ballot boxes.

3. The UKIP vote actually damaged Labour more than the Conservatives. Especially in some of the marginals we saw UKIP blunting any form of challenge from Labour.

4. Lib Dem voters actually switching to the Conservatives. Might be the fear of the SNP and tactical voting but we definitely saw a shift.

Cameron has had a stonking result but the challenge doesn't stop there. He has to try and sort out Scotland with some sort of deal to reflect the mood north of the border, he also has to try and get a good deal from Europe ready for the referendum.

[jim mk2]

Dreadfully disappointing result.

Ed Miliband's vision of a reformed capitalist system that works for everyone and not just the few was good but the message was not clear or coherent enough.

The Labour party need to have a rethink and plan a strategy for the next 5 years and plan to return to government in 2020. There are many people who voted Tory and Ukip this time who will return.

I fear for this country, and the north of England in particular. We have the prospect of a break up of the union and the rUK leaving the EU, effectively leaving a "Little England" no longer internationalist and looking in on itself. The poor and weakest will be the target of more austerity cuts and the richest 1 per cent will continue to prosper at the expense of everyone else.

A sad day indeed.

Actually the polls were pretty accurate in terms of % of votes. This was the last BBC Poll of polls - Conservative 34%, Labour 33%, UKIP 13%, Lib Dem 8%, Green 5%. The current actual with a few results to come is Conservatives 36.8%, Labour 30.5%, UKIP 12.6%, Lib Dem 7.8% and Green 3.8%. So the only real change was a 2.65% swing from Labour to Conservative (it's more complicated than that as peoples' votes moved all over the place but that was the net effect).

What went wrong was how the pollsters interpreted the numbers into seats won. For example they clearly overestimated the resilience of incumbent Lib Dem MPs - they thought the personal factor would save more but it worked for very few. And there was probably the return of two previously observed phenomena - that polls usually underestimate the Tory vote (some people don't like to admit they will vote for them) and a late swing back towards the party that was previously in power

The pollsters were asking the wrong questions obviously. The poll that told the truth was the leaders' poll.

In respect of the voting system, I was always against PR but some of the voting this time with UKip having 10 per cent but only 1 or 2 seats doesn't make sense. There's no chance of PR happening though with the Tories in power because it does not favour them. The Tories are also likely to push for boundary changes this parliament - again in their own interests.

As for Clegg, he deserves all the brickbats he will get for the damage he has done to his party. Lib Demmers I know will never forgive him for putting the Tories in Downing Street and voted Labour this time. The party could be finished as a third force.

[Rover_Shaun]

Oh Joy. Another 5 years of that lot. I wonder if Nigel will remember this time that the west of his constituency doesn't end at Ribchester and there's some hard working non-farming, non half million pound house owning folks out there? Hopefully it's not only 'alleged' nefarious deeds he has no recollection of

[dr_awol]

Voted SNP.

Im really not sure why people in England are scared of them ?

I think Ed lost it when he said he would much prefair a Conservative than a lab/SNP gov.

I'm not in to politics really and not a fan of Cameron but the prospect of waking up to the cranks at the SNP with less than 5% of the overall vote forming a coalition govt any having any influence filled me with dread. I suspect a lot of marginal labour/Tory seats felt the same.

One thing I can't get my head round is the fairness of it all. The snp had 5% of the vote with 56 seats, UKIP 13% of the vote but 1 seat. So a party with 8% more of the entire electorate has 5600% less influence in parliament. That's democracy for you.

in the seats the SNP stood in they gained over 50% of the Vote that's why they have 56 seats.

in Scotland UKIP only got 1.6%. proud fact.. although that's 1.6% to much

my thought on the way forward :

• cant wait for trident to be moved.
• roll on the EU referendum.
• full fiscal autonomy in Scotland

The Conservative made people in England scared of Scotland, UkIP made people in England scared of Europe, Fear Always wins

[JohnD]

The way forward with the NHS is NOT to increase funding but to eliminate waste. The waste of money and resources is frightening. Don't pay attention to the emotive claptrap in the press and media just talk to anyone who works in the NHS and they will tell you the same.

Too bloody true! The NHS needs effective management not money