[Archived] The General Election 2015

[Al]

England do seem hell bent on leaving the EU

I'll drink to that!

[Mattyblue]

And he was a Tory.

Exactly my point, England (not Scotland) politically leans centre-right and always has done, Blair understood that, modern Labour and many of its supporters seem to think the same message of 'evil Tories' will win them elections. The left make the most noise, this thread is testominy to that (as is Twitter etc), but the 'shy Tory' is alive and well.

[Al]

So let me get this straight. Nigel Farage made a big deal of being a straight talking guy and meaning what he said. He said he would resign as leader of UKIP if he didn't win his seat in Thanet South. He didn't win, so he resigned. Then he said he was going to take the Summer off and then would consider whether to stand at the leadership election in September. In what conceivable way is this straight talking? Why should I trust anything else he says?

Sounds straight enough to me. If they want him back they will vote for him. If not they won't.

[joey_big_nose]

He's already said that he will instigate moves to prevent Scottish MP's voting on English or Welsh matters. He's got a clear run at that now. How about reforming the Barnett Formula? I'm sure thats high on the agenda too. Both of those moves would strengthen his standing in the eyes of the English electorate.

Publically he may say one thing but privately I'm sure he'll say the opposite. Would you want a country in the Union with nearly 60 SNP seats with just one that supports your party? Nicola Sturgeon makes no secret of her hatred for the tories and her intention to destroy them even to the point of betraying SNP voters by promising to 'get into bed' with Ed Miliband.

I don't think the SNP MPs will have any issue at all with not voting on English law, nor the union being dissolved. Nor the Barnett Formula being reworked as that would just allow a pretext for a new, successful, referendum.

I don't see how giving the SNP what they want constitues slapping them down.

[thenodrog]

Aye, but you still got it and it suited you to use it how you saw fit. Now you no longer get it you are happy to advocate that no one else should.

Read my first sentence Biddy. Don't twist my words.

You too gav!

[dr_awol]

I'll drink to that!

me to but for very different reasons

[thenodrog]

Mate can I have some of what you are smoking.

Do you think that's it then? It's a Tory government forever?

Labour won 30% vote, Tories 37% vote. Swing of 3.5% between them. If you fancy betting as big a sum as you like that Labour won't win or be part of a winning coalition in the next two elections just let me know.

Ordinarily I'd agree as these things are cyclical but where Lab are going to replace the scottish seats from I have no idea.

[thenodrog]

I've made the analogies to turkeys and Christmas but was given a warning by the thought-police but this is a good post and the sentence in bold correct.

Cameron spoke this morning of "one-nation Toryism" but he will know his £12bn of cuts will disproportionately hit the poor, young sick and​ disabled. The cuts will deliver more pain, fear and instability to those they affect. We can expect a rise in RELATIVE child poverty, a further decline in living standards for all but the most well-off, and more stupendous rises in productivity in the food bank sector.

A majority gives the Tories a mandate to begin seriously dismantling the welfare state, but Cameron – if not all of his party – will know this carries a political cost. Deliver social security cuts on this scale and many of those who voted for him yesterday may find that it is they, and not the mythical scroungers and shirkers of Tory demagoguery, who will lose out

More accurate now.

Relative poverty not being anywhere as emotive or as disastrous as 'absolute' poverty. In fact jim I'm pretty sure that I was brought up under conditions that would now be classed as relative poverty. My childhood was fine and reflecting whilst I never had a new bike n' such stuff I was never disadvantaged..

[jim mk2]

Exactly my point, England (not Scotland) politically leans centre-right and always has done, Blair understood that, modern Labour and many of its supporters seem to think the same message of 'evil Tories' will win them elections. The left make the most noise, this thread is testominy to that (as is Twitter etc), but the 'shy Tory' is alive and well.

Really....have you read any history books ?

More accurate now.

Relative poverty not being anywhere as emotive or as disastrous as 'absolute' poverty. In fact jim I'm pretty sure that I was brought up under conditions that would now be classed as relative poverty. My childhood was fine and reflecting whilst I never had a new bike n' such stuff I was never disadvantaged..

Poverty all the same.

[thenodrog]

Why should the English get a referendum to desided this, should it not be rUK that desides this if you wanted this type of referendum ? remember the UK more than just England. N.Ireland England Wales and Scotland 4 Equal partners

Their overwhelming vote for the SNP is an indication of what they think of us.

yes in the SNP manifesto, Anglophobia was before Scrapping Trident but after Investing in education, comeon AI noone should vote for a party of some prejudice, you should vote because you believe in their manifesto as i did!

The oil that they have decided is entirely theirs is pretty useless to them now.

Why, the price of oil is rising again? a good idea would be to set up some sort of oil fund to deal with volatile prices, instead of using to close coal mines.

Conservatives got 41% of the vote, not 41% of the population.

I might be mistaken of course but I think the cold hard reality of the situation is hitting home.

[thenodrog]

It's well known that the Scots in general hate the English. It was "our oil" not long ago. Now it's next to worthless. Yes the price is rising a bit but not enough.

It's certainly not the price that they budgeted for when Nicola and Little Fatal went into a huddle and formulated their big plans for Scotland at the expense of the Union.

[jim mk2]

Ed Miliband's appeal to me was that for the first time in decades we had a potential PM who was prepared to be brave enough to stand up for the little man, who was prepared to stand up to big business, who was prepared to take on vested interests and who was fearless in his stated pursuit of a fairer, more equal, less divided society. Last night confirms that the neo-libertarian status quo of the past 30 years in which only the richest have prospered will continue and that lives of ordinary people will not change for the better - and in view of further threats on the horizon such as an EU exit and the TPP trade deal are likely to become much worse.

[thenodrog]

So let me get this straight. Nigel Farage made a big deal of being a straight talking guy and meaning what he said. He said he would resign as leader of UKIP if he didn't win his seat in Thanet South. He didn't win, so he resigned. Then he said he was going to take the Summer off and then would consider whether to stand at the leadership election in September. In what conceivable way is this straight talking? Why should I trust anything else he says?

He said he'd resign and he has. (Bloody great Hat Trick by 'Call me Dave' that's for sure). If you aren't happy with that then the position is open so you can simply put your name down and stand in opposition.

And he was a Tory.

He wasn't but he was in the 'Tony' party that's for sure. Membership total at the last reckoning of two. Him and and the terminally embarrassing Anthony Booth's daughter.

[Mattyblue]

Really....have you read any history books ?

Yes, how often have Labour won when they approach from the left? 1945, of course, not many other examples, as I said, in 46 years only Blair has won for Labour.

They are now unelectable without a centre-ist, nay right wing figure.

Must be a pretty depressing realisation for an old class warrior like yourself.

[Tom]

If you think that child benefit is normally spent on the children you are probably mistaken. A can of Special Brew and a packet of fags and a bag of crisps for the kid.

Hard to say what it's nornally spent on since the parents of every child gets it.

I must admit I don't fully understand it, when we had our son was surprised to find out we got £81 or so a month as we expected nothing; we made that decision to have a child ourself and expected to pay ourself as you would do, don't get me wrong it's a nice bonus and we do use it for him.

[thenodrog]

Have you pulled that out of the Daily Mail?

No. Don't you believe me? Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can find out what that little jaunt from Queens Park to Burnley and back complete with interpretor cost.

Exactly my point, England (not Scotland) politically leans centre-right and always has done, Blair understood that, modern Labour and many of its supporters seem to think the same message of 'evil Tories' will win them elections. The left make the most noise, this thread is testominy to that (as is Twitter etc), but the 'shy Tory' is alive and well.

First off Labour need to redefine the term 'working class' and decide who the 'working man' is. They do seem determined to stick with an age old stereotype.

I don't think the SNP MPs will have any issue at all with not voting on English law, nor the union being dissolved. Nor the Barnett Formula being reworked as that would just allow a pretext for a new, successful, referendum.

I don't see how giving the SNP what they want constitues slapping them down.

I've a feeling that you will.

Poverty all the same.

Don't be stupid. Poverty is most definitely NOT all the same. That's why there are two distinct classifications. I'm surprised that as a sometime wordsmith and ex press hack that you need informing of that.

[adopted scouser]

Have you pulled that out of the Daily Mail?

No, and my sister and her colleagues will tell you exactly the same.

[thenodrog]

Ed Miliband's appeal to me was that for the first time in decades we had a potential PM who was prepared to be brave enough to stand up for the little man, who was prepared to stand up to big business, who was prepared to take on vested interests and who was fearless in his stated pursuit of a fairer, more equal, less divided society. Last night confirms that the neo-libertarian status quo of the past 30 years in which only the richest have prospered will continue and that lives of ordinary people will not change for the better - and in view of further threats on the horizon such as an EU exit and the TPP trade deal are likely to become much worse. either no one believed him or no one wanted it. Take your pick jim.

[adopted scouser]

Thenodrog

from a purely personal point of view Esther McVey! wtf was going on in the Wirrell? Not only is she eye candy but from what I hear she was damned good at her job. Compare her to the fresher from Blackburn Kate Hollern.

Fit that one , and it's Wirral.

Don't let me tell you again.

[jim mk2]

Yes, how often have Labour won when they approach from the left? 1945, of course, not many other examples, as I said, in 46 years only Blair has won for Labour.

They are now unelectable without a centre-ist, nay right wing figure.

Must be a pretty depressing realisation for an old class warrior like yourself.

Depressing at the moment yes, but neoliberalism won't last forever. Things change quickly in politics. The right is charge at present but the left's time will come again.

There's also hope in that Cameron's position is still precarious - he has only a slim majority and he has to deal with his swivel-eyed loons on the right over the Brexit issue.

They brought down Major and they could bring down Cameron too.

Thenodrog

from a purely personal point of view Esther McVey! wtf was going on in the Wirrell? Not only is she eye candy but from what I hear she was damned good at her job. Compare her to the fresher from Blackburn Kate Hollern.

Fit that one , and it's Wirral.

She lost because she's known locally as being particulalrly unpleasant.

[thenodrog]

Depressing at the moment yes, but neoliberalism won't last forever. Things change quickly in politics. The right is charge at present but the left's time will come again.

There's also hope in that Cameron's position is still precarious - he has only a slim majority and he has to deal with his swivel-eyed loons on the right over the Brexit issue.

They brought down Major and they could bring down Cameron too.

She lost because she's known locally as being particulalrly unpleasant.

OMG! Even better!

[yoda]

OMG! Even better!

Is she a ginger or real blonde ?

[Gav]

No, and my sister and her colleagues will tell you exactly the same.

It's a load of Daily Mail type sensationalism, nobody is saying it doesn't happen, but it's minuscule in terms of cost to the NHS and tax payers.

[Baz]

It's a load of Daily Mail type sensationalism, nobody is saying it doesn't happen, but it's minuscule in terms of cost to the NHS and tax payers.

Agreed.

I work with several NHS trusts and CCGs and there much bigger fish to fry than translators. There are bucket loads of non-frontline people (many of them not determined as the mythical managers and administrators too), who contribute nothing abd take away large salaries. The problem is many of these people are the decision makers and when they are asked to find things to cut, the last place they will ever look is at themselves.

There are also massive savings to be made by the combination of health and social care budgets too. At present the NHS sends patients home at minutes notice to save money on keeping them on wards. The responsibility then falls on social care to find urgent ways of transportation, of urgent delivery of vital equipment to the persons home etc...that cost can be dramatically reduced by the nhs working with social care to give the patients estimated hospital discharge dates, and a list of equipment they are likely to need on discharge. The difference in cost for each patient can be £100's.

[roverzee]

The political illiteracy in this post is truly staggering.

The Conservatives are the party that represents the wealthy and the privileged and does everything in their power to transfer even more wealth and power to the tiny super-rich minority at the expense of everyone else. It amazes me that so many millions of ordinary people are incapable of understanding that voting for the Tories is blatantly voting against their own best interests.

I hope you have already emigrated to Benidorm, but in case you haven't let's check out some facts.

It would appear that the Conservative Party represents everyone.

Win by number of seats, win by percentage of vote - spin it any way you want but it's a clear win.

It amazes me that you slate "ordinary people" for not voting the way you wanted the election to pan out.

Ordinary People = 1 ... Socialist loser gobshite on the internet = 0