[Archived] The General Election 2015

[jim mk2]

Tory party won 35 per cent of the vote, so how do they "represent everyone"?

People have been conned and frightened this election.

Charming sign-off. Well done.

[JBiz]

If you think that child benefit is normally spent on the children you are probably mistaken. A can of Special Brew and a packet of fags and a bag of crisps for the kid.

The point I was making is that you can't give a child the money- what Gord said was stop it after 2. Makes no sense because if parent (which some do) neglect child it will only make things worse.

A real government would be investing in child and social services to prevent rather than just cut costs. I see first hand the result of bad parenting (teaching in a deprived area comprehensive) and it sickens me that people think the solution is stopping these peoples benefits.

The solution is prevention. We can't do that when we aren't hiring the correct professionals to do so. In the last 20 years- many foster care/child protection teams have become private companies- how can they be run properly in this way? The last 5 years has seen this trend get worse- we have businessmen running care homes, and that is a recipe for disaster.

The longer it carries on, the more people slip under the net- having children young, the process repeats. It's no coincidence that many of these bad parents had bad upbringings themselves. A small percentage of humanity is invariably programmed to be "****s" and they will take advantage ala Rochdale.

If we have to clarify this humanistic view point as "leftie" it shows just how far removed from reality that politics has become. I think progression is a fairer deal for everyone- so people don't have to change countries for simple amenities. Segregating ourselves in and cutting back on foreign aid and defense... That's regression.

On a seperate point, we desperately need to start educating people about politics and basic ethics in schools. 13% of the nation voted for a party who openly judged people by race, religion and sexual profile.

[thenodrog]

It's a load of Daily Mail type sensationalism, nobody is saying it doesn't happen, but it's minuscule in terms of cost to the NHS and tax payers.

Whatever way you want to spin it gav it's all part of the same NHS ethos.

[roverzee]

Tory party won 35 per cent of the vote, so how do they "represent everyone"?

People have been conned and frightened this election.

Labour got to 30.4. Your dream coalition bringing in the SNP still only managed 31.1 combined.

If you live by the rules you also die by the rules. The conned people and the frightened people have returned a Conservative government.

Moan as much as you want. The nation has spoken and you should respect the result, or **** off somewhere else.

[jim mk2]

Labour got to 30.4. Your dream coalition bringing in the SNP still only managed 31.1 combined.

If you live by the rules you also die by the rules. The conned people and the frightened people have returned a Conservative government.

Moan as much as you want. The nation has spoken and you should respect the result, or **** off somewhere else.

Errrr I have accepted the result. I've also pointed out Labour's mistakes. I'm not going anywhere. Why should I? I love this country even with a government I disagree with. What's your problem?

[joey_big_nose]

Labour got to 30.4. Your dream coalition bringing in the SNP still only managed 31.1 combined.

If you live by the rules you also die by the rules. The conned people and the frightened people have returned a Conservative government.

Moan as much as you want. The nation has spoken and you should respect the result, or **** off somewhere else.

Get your maths right. If you combine the SNP and Labour it would be 35% of the vote.

People crowing about who got the most votes... If you add GRN-Lab-SNP together and compare to Con-UKIP its about even Steven. The country seems evenly split but the majority sit in the middle and are happy voting either centre left or centre right depending on who is the most appealing.

If you look at England alone Con-UKIP have a slight advantage. But there is not much in it.

The Tories won because Cameron painted an effective view of himself as a moderate while still holding onto his base, just as Blair did (though Blair was much better at it than Cameron).

Triumphalism is bizarre position to take when the Tories have a majority of 10. Compared to the days of Thatcher or Blair it is chicken feed.

The Tories time will end soon enough.

[joey_big_nose]

Also talking about left and right over the last 70 years is a nonsense. What is perceived as each has evolved and changed so much. Also people underestimate how much is accepted as orthodoxy and is not challenged by any of the main parties. Challenging these orthodoxies may win fringe votes but makes it very hard to win the centre and therefore number 10.

A list of orthodoxies

Markets should be largely free but partially regulated to avoid excess

Taxes should be based on income and the richest should pay proportionally more

Utilities, railways etc should be privatised (except the London Underground for some reason)

NHS should be a free nationalised service

it should also be ring fenced from cuts.

School should be free and available to 18. Ring fenced from cuts.

University should be affordable

Moderate immigration is good

Liberal social reform is good - gay marriage etc

Debt and deficit should be kept moderate and desperately needs to be reduced

GDP spend by government should stand somewhere around 38%, however needs to come down sharply (austerity) for now to clear the debt and deficit.

Benefits are necessary and should allow people a basic safety net

The European Union needs reform but is a good thing which the UK should stay part of.

And while there are a few challenges to this orthodoxy they stand stiff opposition from the other side and will be very difficult to get on the legislative agenda. These are what people argue about but actually it's mostly a waste of time because they will never happen. But then you have to try right?

Left proposals opposed by right so will never happen

Renationalisation of railways

Private industry should be excluded from all public services completely

Significant increase of taxes on the wealthy

Significant regulation of international business required to prevent corruption and driving of inequality

End of austerity as it is ineffective at clearing deficit or debt and should be slowed, stopped or even reversed

GDP spend by government should increase to 45%

Benefits should stay exactly as they are or maybe be slightly extended

Right proposals opposed by left so will never happen

Private industry should be allowed to enter public services much more to increase competition

Immigration should be radically curtailed or even stopped

Benefits should be reduced by 25% or more

Austerity is necessary and the pace of it should be increased to clear deficit and reduce debt

GDP spend by government should reduce to 33% or even less

Uk should leave the EU (I know there will be a referendum but we will stay in. All the parties - save UKIP - are going to say "In" - plus big business, plus trade unions.)

Largely I would say there is more in common than not, except for immigration, Austerity and Europe where there is a big divide. There is a strong consensus in this country about what a "good government" looks like and what services it provides.

[Mattyblue]

The Tories time will end soon enough.

Of course, however it won't happen if Labour vote for another leader like Miliband, university union wonks like Ed won't win over Middle England.

[Rover_Shaun]

The day the Tories represent me will be a cold day in hell. A rough 5 years ahead. They make Venkys seem like paragons of virtue

[DE.]

Of course, however it won't happen if Labour vote for another leader like Miliband, university union wonks like Ed won't win over Middle England.

If they'd selected a better candidate this time around I think the results would have been much closer. Ed was a damp squib from day one, not a leader and I find it incredible that anybody in Labour thought he would lead them to victory.

[Gav]

Whatever way you want to spin it gav it's all part of the same NHS ethos.

Cameron's just had 'Top down reorganisation' in the last parliament Gordon which has wasted millions of tax payers money?

[Biddy]

Read my first sentence Biddy. Don't twist my words.

You too gav!

Fair play, I apologise. You were not saying to scrap it just to limit it. I think I just read more into what you were saying about people not really needing the money as you just used it for holidays.

[ABBEY]

I hope you have already emigrated to Benidorm, but in case you haven't let's check out some facts.

It would appear that the Conservative Party represents everyone.

Win by number of seats, win by percentage of vote - spin it any way you want but it's a clear win.

It amazes me that you slate "ordinary people" for not voting the way you wanted the election to pan out.

Ordinary People = 1 ... Socialist loser gobshite on the internet = 0

wow .. Not seen if there's any comeback on this but is this last bit now ok . ? Jim got a warning for a turkey , I got banned for a cuckoo and yeterday some one was called a fkg ginger something or other and today someone is a loser gobshite . I ask this so I know swearing and personal attacks are now cool on here . .. I bet first time I rant I get banned .

[thenodrog]

The day the Tories represent me will be a cold day in hell. A rough 5 years ahead. They make Venkys seem like paragons of virtue

Hey up... the mouse that roared.

[Al]

Ed Miliband's appeal to me was that for the first time in decades we had a potential PM who was prepared to be brave enough to stand up for the little man, who was prepared to stand up to big business, who was prepared to take on vested interests and who was fearless in his stated pursuit of a fairer, more equal, less divided society. Last night confirms that the neo-libertarian status quo of the past 30 years in which only the richest have prospered will continue and that lives of ordinary people will not change for the better - and in view of further threats on the horizon such as an EU exit and the TPP trade deal are likely to become much worse.

An EU exit and closer links with the USA, Australia, New Zealand etc, would complete an excellent election.

[thenodrog]

Ordinary People = 1 ... Socialist loser gobshite on the internet = 0

Charming sign-off. Well done.

Maybe................ But it's still, funny!

[Paul]

An EU exit and closer links with the USA, Australia, New Zealand etc, would complete an excellent election.

Australia population 24m, New Zealand population 4.5m. USA (with a GDP of 17 trillion dollars) population 319m.

EU Zone population 505m.

Distance to EU 21 miles

USA and beyond 3300 miles +

UK GDP 2.7 trillion dollars

Can you explain the economic arguments for trade with either an economy 6 times larger than the UK and over 3000 miles away or alternatively the benefit of trade with a country 9500 miles away with a population one twentieth of the market across the channel

[thenodrog]

The Tories won because Cameron painted an effective view of himself as a moderate while still holding onto his base, just as Blair did (though Blair was much better at it than Cameron).

The tories won because

1. The electorate simply don't trust Labour after their last showing. Labour seemed to believe that people cannot remember further back than a week or two.

2. Labour failed to recognise the mood of the nation and simply pressed the wrong buttons. People quite rightly placed the economy and the Union before the NHS, zero hours contracts and their gas bill.

The day the Tories represent me will be a cold day in hell. A rough 5 years ahead. They make Venkys seem like paragons of virtue

Power to the people Wolfie!

Fair play, I apologise. You were not saying to scrap it just to limit it. I think I just read more into what you were saying about people not really needing the money as you just used it for holidays.

Similar with Tom.

When we had kids we gave up lots of things to pay for them. It's only natural as far as I am concerned. The last thing that should happen is people to believe that other people should subsidise their families. it's just wrong from so many angles and effectively becomes a multiplier.

[thenodrog]

Thenodrog

from a purely personal point of view Esther McVey! wtf was going on in the Wirrell? Not only is she eye candy but from what I hear she was damned good at her job. Compare her to the fresher from Blackburn Kate Hollern.

Fit that one , and it's Wirral.

Don't let me tell you again.

In true in-betweeners tradition Nick. She'd 'get it' ............... Definitely.

btw here's our very own version of Esther (one of scotland's finest) 'Miss Blackburn' celebrating her meal ticket for life with her supporters........... Jim? Shaun? jbn ? Any of you on here? Abbey must have gone off to make a brew.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/resources/images/3738739/&biw=1167&bih=522&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Q9dNVZW_JIGhUuHggFg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw#imgrc=UDig2rvW4aGrlM%253A%3BSzFrk0F_nZD9TM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk%252Fresources%252Fimages%252F3738739%252F%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk%252Fnews%252F12938440.VIDEO__Kate_Hollern_becomes_MP_as_Labour_hold_Blackburn%252F%3B2400%3B1597

[Al]

The point I was making is that you can't give a child the money- what Gord said was stop it after 2. Makes no sense because if parent (which some do) neglect child it will only make things worse.

Of course it makes sense. The object is to stop the world population from exploding. It's wrong to more than duplicate yourselves. In any case giving money is no guarantee that it will be spent on the kids. The dole dossers are more likely to buy fags and booze.

[thenodrog]

Al what the money is used for is pointless. Surely now that there are food banks increasing in popularity over the place we don't need to give out actual money in order to satisfy JBizzle's concerns for the neglect of children.

[Al]

Australia population 24m, New Zealand population 4.5m. USA (with a GDP of 17 trillion dollars) population 319m.

EU Zone population 505m.

Distance to EU 21 miles

USA and beyond 3300 miles +

UK GDP 2.7 trillion dollars

Can you explain the economic arguments for trade with either an economy 6 times larger than the UK and over 3000 miles away or alternatively the benefit of trade with a country 9500 miles away with a population one twentieth of the market across the channel

Today all your objections are totally irrelevant. Is it better to trade with lame ducks like Poland, Albania etc. etc.? No you trade with countries with decent products. In any case an exit from the EU does not prevent trade with the better European countries. We managed before the EU.

[thenodrog]

Australia population 24m, New Zealand population 4.5m. USA (with a GDP of 17 trillion dollars) population 319m.

EU Zone population 505m.

Distance to EU 21 miles

USA and beyond 3300 miles +

UK GDP 2.7 trillion dollars

Can you explain the economic arguments for trade with either an economy 6 times larger than the UK and over 3000 miles away or alternatively the benefit of trade with a country 9500 miles away with a population one twentieth of the market across the channel

Paul how about ...... those countries do not need constantly subsidising and can pay for what they buy?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I think it's down to three things

Conservatives growing the economy, raising the tax threshold(LD idea tho), creating more jobs.

People not trusting Labour with Economy and not believing Ed Miliband will not good enough or trust him as PM.

People in England not wanting a Labour/SNP coalition

Creating more jobs ? Only if you happy with low paid, part time or zero hour contracts. Where is the increase in manufacturing they promised, where are the real jobs that would help build a solid long term economy ? We have another 5 years of the rich getting richer and the low paid and public sector paying for it all.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I hope you have already emigrated to Benidorm, but in case you haven't let's check out some facts.

It would appear that the Conservative Party represents everyone.

Win by number of seats, win by percentage of vote - spin it any way you want but it's a clear win.

It amazes me that you slate "ordinary people" for not voting the way you wanted the election to pan out.

Ordinary People = 1 ... Socialist loser gobshite on the internet = 0

Win by percentage of vote, yes they were the biggest party but more voted against them that for them, and yet they will push through laws etc that more than half the population disagree with. It's always been the same with first past the post elections but doesn't make it right.