[Archived] The General Election 2015

[jim mk2]

The tories won because

1. The electorate simply don't trust Labour after their last showing. Labour seemed to believe that people cannot remember further back than a week or two.

2. Labour failed to recognise the mood of the nation and simply pressed the wrong buttons. People quite rightly placed the economy and the Union before the NHS, zero hours contracts and their gas bill.

The Tories won because their campaign team led by a loathsome Australian named Lynton Crosby and a number of young Republican right-wingers shipped in from the US orchestrated a vile campaign, helped at every turn by their friends in the right wing newspapers and the BBC, based on negative campaigning and fear.

1. They targeted Ed Miliband and his perceived unsuitability as a future prime minister and used scaremongering tactics to link him to the SNP.

2. They focused relentlessly on the economy by repeating the great lie of the past 5 years that Labour were to blame for the financial crash of 2008 and the fiscal deficit.

Listening to people on radio and TV explain how they voted and their decisions were all linked to the above.

Policy was just a sideshow.

.

[Sandiway Blue]

Anyway no it's not. It's the fault of Labour.... they opened the whole can of worms right after WW2.

Just makes me laugh with Labour saying that the Tories will privatise the NHS when they had already started it whilst they were previously in government...

[jim mk2]

center. color

Why do you American spellings ? I've noticed this before.

[Sandiway Blue]

Labours defeat boils down to a number of facts:

A: Miliband was never Prime minister material and people simply didn't like the bloke.He didn't connect with middle England one bit and whether the Labourites like it or not that is where elections are won and lost.Blair realised this prior to 97' and acted on it resulting in Labour winning by margins not seen since the end of the second world war.

B:Labour's policies towards businesses and business owners were absolutely vicious and definitely would have stifled growth putting jobs at threat.

C: Whether Labour deny it or not they would have had to form a government with Jimmy Krankie's mob north of the border.Would Red Ed have had the Balls to keep her on a leash? I seriously doubt it and so did the rest of the country.

D: Labour's record on the economy.Even putting the banking crisis to one side the sale of the country's gold reserves was frankly amateurish.Between 1999 and 2002 they sold half of the country's gold reserves when gold was at it's lowest price for 20 years:$282 per ounce (as of april this year the price was $1200 per ounce).

E:Council tax: Despite Labour supporters hatred towards the tax,not only did Labour not scrap it when they came to power they increased it by ridiculous amounts to a level where it became a major bill for most households.Since the coalition came to power in 2010 council tax has been FROZEN.Under Labour and going off their previous rate of increases year on year,the British public would have been paying an extra £250 per household!

I'm sure there are many more flaws,too many to mention but in their present form Labour are simply unelectable.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Labours defeat boils down to a number of facts:

A: Miliband was never Prime minister material and people simply didn't like the bloke.He didn't connect with middle England one bit and whether the Labourites like it or not that is where elections are won and lost.Blair realised this prior to 97' and acted on it resulting in Labour winning by margins not seen since the end of the second world war.

B:Labour's policies towards businesses and business owners were absolutely vicious and definitely would have stifled growth putting jobs at threat.

C: Whether Labour deny it or not they would have had to form a government with Jimmy Krankie's mob north of the border.Would Red Ed have had the Balls to keep her on a leash? I seriously doubt it and so did the rest of the country.

D: Labour's record on the economy.Even putting the banking crisis to one side the sale of the country's gold reserves was frankly amateurish.Between 1999 and 2002 they sold half of the country's gold reserves when gold was at it's lowest price for 20 years:$282 per ounce (as of april this year the price was $1200 per ounce).

E:Council tax: Despite Labour supporters hatred towards the tax,not only did Labour not scrap it when they came to power they increased it by ridiculous amounts to a level where it became a major bill for most households.Since the coalition came to power in 2010 council tax has been FROZEN.Under Labour and going off their previous rate of increases year on year,the British public would have been paying an extra £250 per household!

I'm sure there are many more flaws,too many to mention but in their present form Labour are simply unelectable.

A. Why do you think this ? Who knows what makes a good leader - personally think the public perception was driven by character assassination in the Tory press.

B. Which policies would have stifled growth ? Think the only thing they tried to point out was that the people mainly affected by Tory austerity was the the average working man.

C. This was the most amazing scaremongering of the election. After fighting to keep Scotland in the Union - the Tories effectively said that the MPs that Scotland voted for weren't fit to be part of the political process in Westminster. I have no time for the SNP, but Tory strategy has effectively ripped the Union apart again.

D. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing - let's look at Tory policy to sell off BT, gas, water etc etc - all of which has led to big business making huge profits at the expense of the tax payer.

E. This freeze has led to worse public services and thousands of job losses.

[thenodrog]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/09/thanet-rigged-south-north-general-election-nigel-farage_n_7248496.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk-ws-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D349676

Hmmmm ballot boxes missing for six hours longer than it normally takes the count in Thanet. Where were they? Also not a reflection of the locals. This has a bit of mileage in it methinks. Al..... go get yer gun.

btw dmtp re: A

if you think the tory press were against Miliband you need to consider that ALL the press and media have been lined up against Nigel Farage for most of the past year!

The blunt truth of the election is that the British public simply did not consider Labour as being fit to govern.

[Sandiway Blue]

A. Why do you think this ? Who knows what makes a good leader - personally think the public perception was driven by character assassination in the Tory press.

i don't read the press because of the bias towards particular parties instead of remaining impartial (on all sides) and i still sussed he was a weak leader

B. Which policies would have stifled growth ? Think the only thing they tried to point out was that the people mainly affected by Tory austerity was the the average working man.

Higher rates of tax and windfall taxes on companies purely because they had the audacity to make profits!

C. This was the most amazing scaremongering of the election. After fighting to keep Scotland in the Union - the Tories effectively said that the MPs that Scotland voted for weren't fit to be part of the political process in Westminster. I have no time for the SNP, but Tory strategy has effectively ripped the Union apart again.

The Tories did what they had to do to win the Election,at least they had a plan.Red Ed just thought he could turn up and just waltz into Downing street with no effort at all.He even had the cheek to plan on having his now infamous stone slab put in the gardens of No:10.

D. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing - let's look at Tory policy to sell off BT, gas, water etc etc - all of which has led to big business making huge profits at the expense of the tax payer.

They didn't need hindsight,at the time everybody knew it was a poor deal for the British taxpayer and had they waited until the price had got to a reasonable level of $600-800 dollars they would have raised between $18-24 Billion instead of the paltry $6.5 Billion that they got for it.Yes the tories didn't get a great price but it's a lot harder to put a value on public utilities than it was Gold.

E. This freeze has led to worse public services and thousands of job losses.

As has been pointed out before,poor management of public services has been the main reason for this.Prime example being my area Rossendale,the local council have plans in place for a brand new sparkling £3.5m bus station in Rawtenstall (not exactly a priority).Yet the town of Haslingden has seen it's swimming pool closed because they couldn't 'afford' to do necessary repairs.Guess which party had control of the council when this decision was made?

[Al]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/09/thanet-rigged-south-north-general-election-nigel-farage_n_7248496.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk-ws-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D349676

Hmmmm ballot boxes missing for six hours longer than it normally takes the count in Thanet. Where were they? Also not a reflection of the locals. This has a bit of mileage in it methinks. Al..... go get yer gun.

btw dmtp re: A

if you think the tory press were against Miliband you need to consider that ALL the press and media have been lined up against Nigel Farage for most of the past year!

The blunt truth of the election is that the British public simply did not consider Labour as being fit to govern.

Wouldn't be the first time an election was rigged. I remember a case in my own town (Hyndburn). There were several recounts with one candidate winning several by 50 votes or so. Eventually the counters were sent home for the night and the following morning the other candidate had 50 votes in his favour. The votes were counted in bundles of 100 and several counters had big handbags. The candidate who was originally winning twigged what had happened immediately and didn't bother asking for another recount. I have deliberately not said which party each candidate represented.

[Mike E]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281

Looking at this, the electorate wanted UKIP, the LibDems, and the Greens to have about 160-70 seats? They have about 10.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The Tories won because their campaign team led by a loathsome Australian named Lynton Crosby and a number of young Republican right-wingers shipped in from the US orchestrated a vile campaign, helped at every turn by their friends in the right wing newspapers and the BBC, based on negative campaigning and fear.

1. They targeted Ed Miliband and his perceived unsuitability as a future prime minister and used scaremongering tactics to link him to the SNP.

2. They focused relentlessly on the economy by repeating the great lie of the past 5 years that Labour were to blame for the financial crash of 2008 and the fiscal deficit.

Listening to people on radio and TV explain how they voted and their decisions were all linked to the above.

Policy was just a sideshow.

.

The problem is Miliband would have required SNP help, Labour couldn't pull ahead to the level where they wouldn't need it. Perhaps the Conservatives did scaremonger a bit, but maybe they were right? The SNP want to break up the union and along the way get everything they can at the expense of the other countries.

The SNP and their rise is in a large part Labour's fault.

Labour under Miliband lost the economic argument, they were anti business and wanted to kill aspiration. Rob the rich bankers and help the poor, but what about middle England? Those that work hard, pay their taxes and want to achieve the best for themselves and their families? Labour had no plan for them and that is why they lost.

[yoda]

The problem is Miliband would have required SNP help, Labour couldn't pull ahead to the level where they wouldn't need it. Perhaps the Conservatives did scaremonger a bit, but maybe they were right? The SNP want to break up the union and along the way get everything they can at the expense of the other countries.

The SNP and their rise is in a large part Labour's fault.

Labour under Miliband lost the economic argument, they were anti business and wanted to kill aspiration. Rob the rich bankers and help the poor, but what about middle England? Those that work hard, pay their taxes and want to achieve the best for themselves and their families? Labour had no plan for them and that is why they lost.

Just to add a little about Jim's post,

Is there anything more ugly than a bad loser ?

[jim mk2]

The problem is Miliband would have required SNP help, Labour couldn't pull ahead to the level where they wouldn't need it. Perhaps the Conservatives did scaremonger a bit, but maybe they were right? The SNP want to break up the union and along the way get everything they can at the expense of the other countries.

The SNP and their rise is in a large part Labour's fault.

Labour under Miliband lost the economic argument, they were anti business and wanted to kill aspiration. Rob the rich bankers and help the poor, but what about middle England? Those that work hard, pay their taxes and want to achieve the best for themselves and their families? Labour had no plan for them and that is why they lost.

"Scaremongering a bit" is an understatement. The personal attacks on Ed Miliband were disgraceful. .

The Labour "anti-business" is again another tired old cliche bandied about by the right. And what does it actually mean, that businesses might have to pay the right amount of tax, or companies might make slightly less profits and directors get smaller bonuses (god forbid) because workers have to be paid a living wage, or companies that only exist because they use zero hours contracts might go out of business ? Miliband was right to warn about the right and wrong sorts of capitalism..

As for "Those that work hard, pay their taxes and want to achieve the best for themselves and their families", those people are worse off now than 5 years ago thanks to a Tory-led government that gave tax cuts to milliionaires. Why would anyone with a modicum of intelligence vote for them ?

[jim mk2]

Here is a question I would like all Tory voters to answer.

It is often said that "the true measure of a society is the way in which it treats its most vulnerable people".

That being so, how do they justify returning a Conservative govt that will allow Iain Duncan Smith to continue his campaign of terror against the sick and disabled?

A. Why do you think this ? Who knows what makes a good leader - personally think the public perception was driven by character assassination in the Tory press.
B. Which policies would have stifled growth ? Think the only thing they tried to point out was that the people mainly affected by Tory austerity was the the average working man.
C. This was the most amazing scaremongering of the election. After fighting to keep Scotland in the Union - the Tories effectively said that the MPs that Scotland voted for weren't fit to be part of the political process in Westminster. I have no time for the SNP, but Tory strategy has effectively ripped the Union apart again.
D. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing - let's look at Tory policy to sell off BT, gas, water etc etc - all of which has led to big business making huge profits at the expense of the tax payer.
E. This freeze has led to worse public services and thousands of job losses.

Excellent reply and exposes bacupblue's post for what it is - self-interest and ignorance.

[Al]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281

Looking at this, the electorate wanted UKIP, the LibDems, and the Greens to have about 160-70 seats? They have about 10.

That really indicates the unfairness of the election system. I'm quite satisfied with the result but it is obvious that the electorate as a whole would have wished the government to be at least influenced by the Socialists and UKIP. There has to be a better way of letting the people have their say.

[thenodrog]

Wouldn't be the first time an election was rigged. I remember a case in my own town (Hyndburn). There were several recounts with one candidate winning several by 50 votes or so. Eventually the counters were sent home for the night and the following morning the other candidate had 50 votes in his favour. The votes were counted in bundles of 100 and several counters had big handbags. The candidate who was originally winning twigged what had happened immediately and didn't bother asking for another recount. I have deliberately not said which party each candidate represented.

More evidence of dodgy dealings.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32672010

UKIP overwhelmingly popular in the locals but not the GE. Hmmm.

[chaddyrovers]

The Tories won because their campaign team led by a loathsome Australian named Lynton Crosby and a number of young Republican right-wingers shipped in from the US orchestrated a vile campaign, helped at every turn by their friends in the right wing newspapers and the BBC, based on negative campaigning and fear.

1. They targeted Ed Miliband and his perceived unsuitability as a future prime minister and used scaremongering tactics to link him to the SNP.

2. They focused relentlessly on the economy by repeating the great lie of the past 5 years that Labour were to blame for the financial crash of 2008 and the fiscal deficit.

Listening to people on radio and TV explain how they voted and their decisions were all linked to the above.

Policy was just a sideshow.

.

1) wasn't Labour's campaign run/help by one of Obama's chief campaign officer/advisor in David Axelod?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3073694/Humiliation-Obama-s-election-guru-campaign-David-Axelrod-sees-Labour-shellacked-selling-advice-nearly-500-000-blames-pollsters.html

2) BBC was biased for the Conservatives? was a load of rubbish. they gave Ed Miliband a easy time.

3) Labour did overspend when they were in power and didn't save any money for a rainy day. Ed Miliband didn't admit this when he should have done.

4) didn't Gordon Brown sell our Gold reserves off for 25% of their current value?

[Sandiway Blue]

Here is a question I would like all Tory voters to answer.

It is often said that "the true measure of a society is the way in which it treats its most vulnerable people".

That being so, how do they justify returning a Conservative govt that will allow Iain Duncan Smith to continue his campaign of terror against the sick and disabled?

Excellent reply and exposes bacupblue's post for what it is - self-interest and ignorance.

Based on what? Because i disagreed with his point of view? I am what would be termed as 'working class' i earn slightly more than the minimum wage and i work unsociable hours and i feel no connection with Labour whatsoever.They don't reward people for working hard and trying to better themselves and when i saw people who were capable of work but got more money on benefits than they would have earned for getting off their backsides and working,then i'm sorry but i resent my hard earned and paid taxes going towards funding them! So i'm wrong for making sure that my hard earned cash didn't go to some of the lazy barstewards that live around me? Somehow i don't think so!

I also respectfully replied to every one of DMTP's points with part knowlege and part research hardly what i call ignorance?

Still like a child who cannot get his own way,you carry on slating other people's views and trotting out the same old tired Labour propaganda.

Btw just out of interest, what were the 'disgraceful personal attacks' carried out on Red Ed?

[jim mk2]

Based on what? Because i disagreed with his point of view? I am what would be termed as 'working class' i earn slightly more than the minimum wage and i work unsociable hours and i feel no connection with Labour whatsoever.They don't reward people for working hard and trying to better themselves and when i saw people who were capable of work but got more money on benefits than they would have earned for getting off their backsides and working,then i'm sorry but i resent my hard earned and paid taxes going towards funding them! So i'm wrong for making sure that my hard earned cash didn't go to some of the lazy barstewards that live around me? Somehow i don't think so!

I also respectfully replied to every one of DMTP's points with part knowlege and part research hardly what i call ignorance?

Still like a child who cannot get his own way,you carry on slating other people's views and trotting out the same old tired Labour propaganda.

Btw just out of interest, what were the 'disgraceful personal attacks' carried out on Red Ed?

Ahh, the old "benefits scroungers" narrative beloved by the Tories which helps them to divide society by stoking resentment amongst working people by the very same people who support the reckless bankers, the something-for-nothing property speculators, tax evaders and the corporate fatcats.

And if you think you're going to better your lot by voting for these people you're even more naive than you appear.

If you've missed all the attacks on Ed Miliband you must have your head in the sand - or you don't read newspapers.

That really indicates the unfairness of the election system. I'm quite satisfied with the result but it is obvious that the electorate as a whole would have wished the government to be at least influenced by the Socialists and UKIP. There has to be a better way of letting the people have their say.

For the very first time, you've got something absolutely right.

[chaddyrovers]

I see that Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, and some Labour MP have criticised Ed Miliband and Labour campaign and not campaigning for the centre ground.

Labour need to stop the trade unions having such a big say in who Labour appoint as next leader also been said today by Peter Mandelson

[yoda]

Sturgeon has started to try push Cameron around already.

Nice move labour, surrendering in Scotland.

I see that Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, and some Labour MP have criticised Ed Miliband and Labour campaign and not campaigning for the centre ground.

Labour need to stop the trade unions having such a big say in who Labour appoint as next leader also been said today by Peter Mandelson

They made that change a while back but still accept the filthy lucre from them

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/01/labour-votes-on-membershipunion-reforms-at-special-conference-politics-live-blog

[Sandiway Blue]

Ahh, the old "benefits scroungers" narrative beloved by the Tories which helps them to divide society by stoking resentment amongst working people by the very same people who support the reckless bankers, the something-for-nothing property speculators, tax evaders and the corporate fatcats.

Nothing to do with the Tories.I'm quite capable of taking notice of what's going on around me by myself thanks.I think you have the Tories confused with Labour,it's Labour that like to have everybody hanging on to their every word..

And if you think you're going to better your lot by voting for these people you're even more naive than you appear.

If you've missed all the attacks on Ed Miliband you must have your head in the sand - or you don't read newspapers.

Erm,read my earlier reply to DMTP's post whereby i said i don't read Newspapers because of their bias towards political parties

For the very first time, you've got something absolutely right.

[Mike E]

"Scaremongering a bit" is an understatement. The personal attacks on Ed Miliband were disgraceful. .

The Labour "anti-business" is again another tired old cliche bandied about by the right. And what does it actually mean, that businesses might have to pay the right amount of tax, or companies might make slightly less profits and directors get smaller bonuses (god forbid) because workers have to be paid a living wage, or companies that only exist because they use zero hours contracts might go out of business ? Miliband was right to warn about the right and wrong sorts of capitalism..

As for "Those that work hard, pay their taxes and want to achieve the best for themselves and their families", those people are worse off now than 5 years ago thanks to a Tory-led government that gave tax cuts to milliionaires. Why would anyone with a modicum of intelligence vote for them ?

Jim, I know an owner of a corner shop (3 PT employees) and an owner of a small removal firm (two vans, 4 employees).

Both told me in recent weeks they have better terms as small businesses than they did (or would this time) under Labour. THAT is the Middle England vote people are talking about.

FYI: Both voted for Blair each time but switched to Tory under Brown and Miliband.

[Al]

More evidence of dodgy dealings.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32672010

UKIP overwhelmingly popular in the locals but not the GE. Hmmm.

More evidence of dodgy dealings.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32672010

UKIP overwhelmingly popular in the locals but not the GE. Hmmm.

Stinks to high heaven. The big two were determined to undermine UKIP by fair means or foul.

[koi]

It's funny how it's the fault of the electoral system when the Tories win. An electoral system that was overwhelmingly supported in the referendum four years a go. As for the election results; it's nonsense to take the results of one electoral system and apply it to another when the voting is completely different. You can't automatically presume the parties would poll the same under an alternative system. The electorate voted for their candidate in full knowledge of how the system works.

On the Labour front; I wonder who will get the JimMk2 kiss of death: Gordon Brown will win the next GE. David Milliband will be the next PM, Ed Miliband will be the Next PM. Come on Jim, keep your winning streak going, who will be the next Labour PM? and why do you think they should be?

[koi]

UKIP overwhelming popular in the locals? they've got 195 seats, even the Lib Dems have 600+, the Tories have 5000+.