[Archived] The General Election 2015

[jim mk2]

"Entrenched views" now that's funny!

So you didn't read it then ? Thought not. I can provide verifiable facts to prove most of my views - you can't because they're incorrect and your type doesn't want to learn - as the article states. .

Is it just me but I'm detecting an unspoken sense of relief from all and sundry both in private and in the press and media and even within the labour party that miliband's brand of socialism has so dramatically failed? The amount of knives being plunged into his back from all sides but particularly from his own party speaks volumes.

Only from the Blairite wing.

[Audax]

Is it just me but I'm detecting an unspoken sense of relief from all and sundry both in private and in the press and media and even within the labour party that miliband's brand of socialism has so dramatically failed? The amount of knives being plunged into his back from all sides but particularly from his own party speaks volumes.

That happens after such an election to the losing side. Sometimes it might be more pronounced. Sometimes such criticism is not fair.

[ABBEY]

Whistl formerly TNT just laid thousands off .. Let the games begin .

A lady has also killed herself over the bedroom tax .. I hope anyone who voted for it feels guilt. Silly me Tories n guilt pah what was I thinking .

[Gav]

Is it just me but I'm detecting an unspoken sense of relief from all and sundry both in private and in the press and media and even within the labour party that miliband's brand of socialism has so dramatically failed? The amount of knives being plunged into his back from all sides but particularly from his own party speaks volumes.

It doesn't take a genius to realise the main players in the Labour Party wanted Ed removed as leader 2yrs ago. Due process wouldn't allow the change to take place in time without impacting on the election, in hindsight they should have gone ahead!

[thenodrog]

Only from the Blairite wing.

You've (predictably) changed your tune!!! Read on

Tony Blair won 3 successive elections and kept the Tories out of Downing St for 13 wonderful years. He can do what he likes as far as I'm concerned.

This quote is even funnier!! Et tu Brute! "Britain's greatest prime minister of the past 100 years."

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/23496-tony-blair-a-journey/?p=951028

Hell hath no fury like an old commie dinosaur scorned.

[DE.]

I don't think personal attacks by posters from either the left, centre or right is going to make anyone change their minds about how to vote. Its wasted energy. What's the point?

This is a good article in my opinion. I particularly like it because it is well structured and presents referenced and verifiable evidence.

http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2015/05/08/misinformation-how-the-tories-won/

There's another good article in his blog on how the average Britain's perception of the country (particularly regarding immigration and welfare) is wildly off. It's these kind of media-fuelled misconceptions that boost one-policy parties like UKIP.

[thenodrog]

Whistl formerly TNT just laid thousands off .. Let the games begin .

A lady has also killed herself over the bedroom tax .. I hope anyone who voted for it feels guilt. Silly me Tories n guilt pah what was I thinking .

Abbey don't be so emotive. People kill themselves for all manner of reasons when in disturbed frame of mind. Also you don't know her background or medical history. How many people does the bedroom tax affect do you think and how many kill themselves?

[K-Hod]

Abbey don't be so emotive. People kill themselves for all manner of reasons when in disturbed frame of mind. Also you don't know her background or medical history. How many people does the bedroom tax affect do you think and how many kill themselves?

Even if it's one it's too many. There have been loads of situations where bedroom tax has caused unnecessary issues.

When the deficit could be ended by corporations paying the corporation tax they owe it's disgraceful that folk using social housing are the targets.

[thenodrog]

It doesn't take a genius to realise the main players in the Labour Party wanted Ed removed as leader 2yrs ago. Due process wouldn't allow the change to take place in time without impacting on the election, in hindsight they should have gone ahead!

"hindsight"? Might I say that over the years I can confirm that you are particularly blessed with that Gav.

However hindsight is in the main a completely useless human characteristic.

Even if it's one it's too many. There have been loads of situations where bedroom tax has caused unnecessary issues.

When the deficit could be ended by corporations paying the corporation tax they owe it's disgraceful that folk using social housing are the targets.

Have you got the figures K-Hod?

btw Lots of situations where EVERY tax causes issues I'd suggest. Like Abbey unless you know the medical history it would be wisest not to speculate.

[joey_big_nose]

Is it just me but I'm detecting an unspoken sense of relief from all and sundry both in private and in the press and media and even within the labour party that miliband's brand of socialism has so dramatically failed? The amount of knives being plunged into his back from all sides but particularly from his own party speaks volumes.

To call Milliband's set of mild reforms "militant socialism" lacks connection with reality.

The imposition of the energy price cap could be said as a truely socialist measure (and one I completely disagree with) but apart from that it was just a set of marginally higher taxes and slower cuts. Little socialistic in it. Che Guevara it ain't.

[jim mk2]

You've (predictably) changed your tune!!! Read on

This quote is even funnier!! Et tu Brute! "Britain's greatest prime minister of the past 100 years."

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/23496-tony-blair-a-journey/?p=951028

Hell hath no fury like an old commie dinosaur scorned.

Why is one post connnected to the other ? What's your reasoning ?

Have you read joeybignose''s link ?

Are you interested in learning anything ?

[jim mk2]

Even if it's one it's too many. There have been loads of situations where bedroom tax has caused unnecessary issues.

When the deficit could be ended by corporations paying the corporation tax they owe it's disgraceful that folk using social housing are the targets.

Corporation tax, cutting out tax evasion and reducing tax avoidance schemes, all of the these could be used to reduce the deficit without austerity or cutting services.

And then there's the old ruse of actually growing the economy - you know,.getting people back into work, to increase tax receipts to reduce debts.

It was only when Osborne abandoned his debiltating and unnecessary austerity after 3 and half wasted years that he finally got the message - funnily enough when he saw an election looming on the horizon.

[jim mk2]

To call Milliband's set of mild reforms "militant socialism" lacks connection with reality.

The imposition of the energy price cap could be said as a truely socialist measure (and one I completely disagree with) but apart from that it was just a set of marginally higher taxes and slower cuts. Little socialistic in it. Che Guevara it ain't.

The perception of Ed Miliband as a left wing politician is laughable really and was just a convenient label for the right wing media to give him

Miliband (regrettably) embraced the neo-libertarian market economy the same as every other politician over the past 30 years.

True socialism embraces the public ownership of infrastructure such as railways, utilities, telecomms and the postal service - and Miliband never proposed to renationalise any of them.

[Biddy]

Love him or Loathe him, Lord Sugar has quit the Labour Party due to their shift to "Old Labour" policies on business http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a646692/lord-alan-sugar-resigns-from-the-labour-party-because-of-shift-to-old-labour.html#~pcnmlZVVEKlrNB

[thenodrog]

Is it just me but I'm detecting an unspoken sense of relief from all and sundry both in private and in the press and media and even within the labour party that miliband's brand of socialism has so dramatically failed? The amount of knives being plunged into his back from all sides but particularly from his own party speaks volumes.

Love him or Loathe him, Lord Sugar has quit the Labour Party due to their shift to "Old Labour" policies on business http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a646692/lord-alan-sugar-resigns-from-the-labour-party-because-of-shift-to-old-labour.html#~pcnmlZVVEKlrNB

See what I meant above? Thats another one! Labour party member Sugar kept quiet till after the election through some misguided sense of loyalty but metaphorically breathed a huge sigh of relief when the Tories got their majority. Seems to me that Jim's world is crumbling piece by piece yet still he won't admit that his opinions are not only wrong but massively unpopular.

[K-Hod]

The Labour Party need to pretty much start again and re-evaluate what it is they want to achieve, and how to do so.

As for the comments about being entrenched in their own political views-aren't we all??

[roverzee]

The perception of Ed Miliband as a left wing politician is laughable really and was just a convenient label for the right wing media to give him

If the Labour Party wants any chance of being electable in five years time, then there will have to be a bit more deep thinking than blaming the (supposedly) right wing media ... and some would say that the left wing bias of the BBC more than makes up for a section of the written press.

The first thing to do is choosing a credible leader who is not in the pocket of the unions, secondly face up to the mistakes of the past, not just the last 5 years but the mistakes made in government as well, and thirdly put the Miliband/Balls manifesto straight in the bin.

Such a dramatic defeat at the ballot box last Thursday will have wounded the party for sure, but the political system in this country requires Labour to step up to the plate and do their jobs as the main opposition party - something that the Lib Dems and the SNP cannot be - and part of that means making themselves electable by 2020.

If the Labour Party doesn't learn from what's just happened, then this Conservative government will be here for 10 or 15 years, not just 5.

[Biddy]

thought this was quite a good letter to Farage https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/597523363167379459/photo/1

[joey_big_nose]

Miliband (regrettably) embraced the neo-libertarian market economy the same as every other politician over the past 30 years.

True socialism embraces the public ownership of infrastructure such as railways, utilities, telecomms and the postal service - and Miliband never proposed to renationalise any of them.

Well clearly you and I agree on a lot of social issues but as far as economic policy goes we are a fair way apart.

Renationalisation of railroads is about as far as I could see being justifiable as they are not true competitive industries (cant have 2 companies vieing for the same customers on the same route) and remain heavily subsidised and expensive. East Coast has shown a government service can be more cost effective than the private companies.

Telecoms however has been totally revolutionised and improved through competition. To make it national again would be madness.

Can't see an argument for post or utilities either. They work well competitively. Energy needs to be regulated better to pass on savings on volatile fule costs but there is no value in nationalising it again.

If any Labour leader went down the route of nationalisation (beyond railways) without a really compelling case it would make them totally unelectable I think even for middle of the road liberals.

Willing to be convinced if there are any good articles out there on the economic benefits.

If the new leader of Labour is not a Lib Dem in red clothing (as Blair was really. To be honest the closest recent successor to Blair in outlook has been Clegg) I'll follow Ashdowns example and eat a hat (Paddy is going to do that right?). It has to be someone centre to win the votes.

Only other option is to push for PR, get it, then move the labour party further left to please the base but rely on coalitions with the liberals and greens for power. Net effect is broadly the same.

[jim mk2]

See what I meant above? Thats another one! Labour party member Sugar kept quiet till after the election through some misguided sense of loyalty but metaphorically breathed a huge sigh of relief when the Tories got their majority. Seems to me that Jim's world is crumbling piece by piece yet still he won't admit that his opinions are not only wrong but massively unpopular.

Labour party membership has increased by 20,000 since Thursday, a rise of more than 10 per cent. More than 60 per cent are under the age of 35.

Here's your chance to join

https://join.labour.org.uk/

How do you get your twisted views of the world wrong so consistently ?

As for Sugar who cares, really ?

Well clearly you and I agree on a lot of social issues but as far as economic policy goes we are a fair way apart.

Renationalisation of railroads is about as far as I could see being justifiable as they are not true competitive industries

Railroads....are you from the US ? Agree with you over telecomms but water, gas, railways and the post office should be under public control.

[yoda]

Labour party membership has increased by 20,000 since Thursday, a rise of more than 10 per cent. More than 60 per cent are under the age of 35.

Here's your chance to join

https://join.labour.org.uk/

How do you get your twisted views of the world wrong so consistently ?

As for Sugar who cares, really ?

Railroads....are you from the US ? Agree with you over telecomms but water, gas, railways and the post office should be under public control.

It does not specifically say that in the Labour party rule book though

"A DYNAMIC ECONOMY, serving the public interest, in which the enterprise of the market and the rigour of competition are joined with the forces of partnership and co-operation to produce the wealth the nation needs and the opportunity for all to work and prosper with a thriving private sector and high-quality public services where those undertakings essential to the common good are either owned by the public or accountable to them"

[Gav]

"hindsight"? Might I say that over the years I can confirm that you are particularly blessed with that Gav.

.

We'll not go into what you've been blessed with over the years, all in aid of messageboard harmony!

[Sandiway Blue]

So you didn't read it then ? Thought not. I can provide verifiable facts to prove most of my views - you can't because they're incorrect and your type doesn't want to learn - as the article states. .

Only from the Blairite wing.

From somebody who cherry picks posts to suit his own agenda,the words pot kettle and black spring to mind!

[chaddyrovers]

Corporation tax, cutting out tax evasion and reducing tax avoidance schemes, all of the these could be used to reduce the deficit without austerity or cutting services.

And then there's the old ruse of actually growing the economy - you know,.getting people back into work, to increase tax receipts to reduce debts.

It was only when Osborne abandoned his debiltating and unnecessary austerity after 3 and half wasted years that he finally got the message - funnily enough when he saw an election looming on the horizon.

Businesses create jobs and the government is there to get more businesses to open and to invest in the UK by having lower Corporation tax and having people with their right work skills for the jobs that are available.

don't we have 2 million more people on the workforce ladder since 2010? Yes we do

[ABBEY]

what about the 2000 today that lost jobs today at whistl , do the tories care ? No you dont.