[Archived] The General Election 2015

[jim mk2]

Did Labour and the Unions worry when they appointed Ed Miliband? Both he and his brother went to Oxford and gained a degree in PPE. (So did Yvette Cooper btw) . Your 'politics of envy' is getting ridiculous.

The difference is their background and upbringing. Look it up. .

[thenodrog]

I can't see it Baz, don't think he has anything to hide, just doesn't want the hassle and who can blame him.

Bloody hell Gav. You are giving naivety a whole new meaning.

1. I'm pretty sure that you know nothing whatsoever about him.

and

2. Umunna bloody well wanted the hassle until just yesterday! He had thrown his hat into the ring asap.

[Al]

Facts that are easily obtainable on the internet from independent sources. Sorry if this doesn't suit your agenda.

You never quoted a truly independent source in your life. Don't tell me whether I'm better off or not. I know I am. When it comes to agendas I suggest you look at yourself.

[thenodrog]

The difference is their background and upbringing. Look it up. .

Rail against Eton if you want but why turn attending Oxford university into a badge of dishonour. It's the nations leading university for goodness sake.

[thenodrog]

Slash and burn time again. Batten down the hatches and make sure you're neither sick, old, disabled nor have children nor are on low incomes because your life is about to get much worse.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/16/george-osborne-july-budget-austerity-conservatives-deficit

Ha! Have you (and Abbey and Gav) even read it through. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Even in a report sourced from the Guardian there is little to criticise.

1. 'A budget for working people'. What can you possibly object to there?

2. 'Treasury sources said the budget would address Britain’s poor productivity record, which has held back growth in living standards, and would also announce plans to create 3m new apprenticeships.' Thats a good move too isn't it Jim?

3. 'Osborne will say in the budget that the Conservatives intend to adopt a fair and balanced approach to deficit reduction, and that the package will include ringfencing spending on the NHS while cutting £13bn from other Whitehall departments. The budget will also include a fresh crackdown on tax avoidance designed to raise £5bn.' Surely those points are precisely what has been your main thrust against the tories these past weeks? In fact if Labour had won and planned this budget you'd have been singing their praises.

Yep...

The lib dems held them to account during the coalition, Gideon now has a free reign now, god help the working classes.

Can you provide a definition of those please Gav?

[jim mk2]

Corrected for you Jim. About time the workshy were dealt a blow.

Silly and insensitive. These cuts will be hitting the sick and weak, the infirm and the disabled, families with children on low incomes, the people who can least afford to have money taken away.

You never quoted a truly independent source in your life. Don't tell me whether I'm better off or not. I know I am. When it comes to agendas I suggest you look at yourself.

Do your own research. Why should I do it for your when you're obviously so "workshy".

Ha! Have you (and Abbey and Gav) even read it through. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Even in a report sourced from the Guardian there is little to criticise.

What Gideon says and does are different. His previous budgets have all hit those at the bottom of society worst.

[thenodrog]

What Gideon says and does are different. His previous budgets have all hit those at the bottom of society worst.

You are making yourself look ever more foolish by the day. The report was from the Guardian so you are also discrediting them when you wrote this tripe "Slash and burn time again. Batten down the hatches and make sure you're neither sick, old, disabled nor have children nor are on low incomes because your life is about to get much worse." Effectively your comments are without foundation and based on nothing more than supposition. And if you don't know what that means.... look it up.

[yoda]

Another one bites the dust

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32760196

someone needs to put a sign up at Labour HQ

last one out, turn the lights out

[thenodrog]

I wonder if they'll give some sort of honour or title to Red Len McClusky? He deserves it cos he's done as much for the Tory's election victory as Nicola Sturgeon has.

[thenodrog]

First phone call Cameron made was to Nichola Sturgeon by all accounts, he'll be trying to woo them, make no mistake.

By all accounts? There was only Mrs Cameron in the car, plus bg and a driver. So who said that? Nicola?

Anyway why on earth would he want to woo her? She has said many times how much she hates Cameron and his party and how much she was willing to help Labour defeat them. She is a sworn enemy so now that he has a majority there will be no wooing necessary, if he has had a conversation it will be to tell her how far she has to bend over whilst he gives her a right royal rogering...... or Scotland gets it!

Moan? If that happens then there will be no Barnett Formula and oil revenue is a shadow of what it was when the SNP first hatched plans for devolution. I can only see the SNP having to tax the scottish citizens till they bleed. Bring it on!

As Cameron makes wooing Sturgeon his main priority we all wonder just how far Gordon's finger has slipped from the political pulse!

Has it really Gav? "Wooing" You are unbelievable, you couldn't back the winner in a one horse race.

Anyway payback has started.......

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/15/david-camerons-appointment-of-andrew-dunlop_n_7291162.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Hope they quickly bin off the Barnett Formula and re-instate the Poll Tax up there. That should get her to drop her drawers..... in panic!

[yoda]

Has it really Gav? "Wooing" You are unbelievable, you couldn't back the winner in a one horse race.

Anyway payback has started.......

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/15/david-camerons-appointment-of-andrew-dunlop_n_7291162.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Hope they quickly bin off the Barnett Formula and re-instate the Poll Tax up there. That should get her to drop her drawers..... in panic!

Sturgeon looks like a wooden top in the second photo,

It will be interesting when the Tories dig their heels in and give the SNP an ultimatum on finance,

"Mr Cameron said his government would "make sure it really is Smith" adding: "We're going to look again at welfare and make sure the clauses reflect what that agreement was."

He added: "The First Minister wants to send some proposals for me to look at and I'm happy to examine proposals, there's going to be a debate, of course there will be a debate.

"I don't rule out making other changes if sensible suggestions are made."

[Al]

Silly and insensitive. These cuts will be hitting the sick and weak, the infirm and the disabled, families with children on low incomes, the people who can least afford to have money taken away.

No. They will hit the workshy and the lazy and about time too.

Do your own research. Why should I do it for your when you're obviously so "workshy".

It's you who quotes Socialist rags to try to prove your communist agenda. I don't need backup from journalists. I rely on common sense instead.

[yoda]

Silly and insensitive. These cuts will be hitting the sick and weak, the infirm and the disabled, families with children on low incomes, the people who can least afford to have money taken away.

Do your own research. Why should I do it for your when you're obviously so "workshy".

What Gideon says and does are different. His previous budgets have all hit those at the bottom of society worst.

The Labour clowns can't even agree what the problem was, that's before they try to elect a new "leader"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32761561

[ultrablue]

No. They will hit the workshy and the lazy and about time too.

The tories are going to have a very tough time making the cuts on the scale they accidently promised. And it's partly because of divisive language like that Al.

After his suprise victory forced his hand, the last thing Cameron wants is a return of the "nasty party" label he campaigned so hard to get rid of. They somehow have to get to 12bns worth of spending cuts, or make a quiet but embarrassing u-turn. There is no easy way to save that money, with many budgets ringfenced already.

Getting rid of child benefit is one option. But that would effect a lot of low income working families who would never consider themselves part of the 'workshy' class Al and others like to talk about whenever benefits are mentioned. The polarising effects of calling people at the lower end of the income bracket worthless, dole dollopers, or workshy means that if the government cut the wrong thing, a whole new group of people are lumped in with that undesirable moniker.

Most likely the government will quietly back down from their election pledge and make smaller savings from something like a benefits cap. The headlines from that will save a little face but still, the backdown will be a bad way to start a new era of Tory government (from their point of view. It'll be a reprieve for millions of low income families).

[meerkat]

Not sure what's worse, bad winners or bad losers.

Veering towards the former.

[Al]

The tories are going to have a very tough time making the cuts on the scale they accidently promised. And it's partly because of divisive language like that Al.

After his suprise victory forced his hand, the last thing Cameron wants is a return of the "nasty party" label he campaigned so hard to get rid of. They somehow have to get to 12bns worth of spending cuts, or make a quiet but embarrassing u-turn. There is no easy way to save that money, with many budgets ringfenced already.

Getting rid of child benefit is one option. But that would effect a lot of low income working families who would never consider themselves part of the 'workshy' class Al and others like to talk about whenever benefits are mentioned. The polarising effects of calling people at the lower end of the income bracket worthless, dole dollopers, or workshy means that if the government cut the wrong thing, a whole new group of people are lumped in with that undesirable moniker.

Most likely the government will quietly back down from their election pledge and make smaller savings from something like a benefits cap. The headlines from that will save a little face but still, the backdown will be a bad way to start a new era of Tory government (from their point of view. It'll be a reprieve for millions of low income families).

We differ on our definitions Ultra. People in the lower income bracket but in work are not dole dollopers or workshy. These people need our help. It's the ones who are capable of work but choose to live on benefits that I want to hit and I see many of them in Accrington and Blackburn. They are parasites and I do not want my taxes to support them.

[ultrablue]

Right but that is the whole point Al. Spending cuts do not only effect those that have given up trying to find work, they effect those that are working but don't earn enough. Some jobs do not pay a living wage and so hard working families do rely on things like child benefits and tax credits to make ends meet.

some people are in and out of work, are juggling kids and maybe trying to improve their skills. Saying that spending cuts will only effect the workshy is just plain wrong.

Just read that back- if some can juggle kids I'm sure they could make a career of it

[thenodrog]

Last week there was a rather plump woman on TV who was bemoaning the fact that she didn't earn enough money to pay all her bills despite working 30 hours per week. She got lots of air time and tea and sympathy etc but no one suggested that maybe she should try working 40.

If I was in her position that would seem the obvious and logical solution.

[Al]

Right but that is the whole point Al. Spending cuts do not only effect those that have given up trying to find work, they effect those that are working but don't earn enough. Some jobs do not pay a living wage and so hard working families do rely on things like child benefits and tax credits to make ends meet.

some people are in and out of work, are juggling kids and maybe trying to improve their skills. Saying that spending cuts will only effect the workshy is just plain wrong.

Just read that back- if some can juggle kids I'm sure they could make a career of it

It isn't hard to distinguish between those who work and those who won't.

[Gav]

It isn't hard to distinguish between those who work and those who won't.

Those that won't work is a tiny minority Al, but the Tory agenda of cutting benefits is built upon convincing the public all benefit claimants won't work.

Cameron is probably going to slash benefits, starting with child benefit, and that mainly hurts low income working families and is the reason the lib dems opposed it during the coalition.

[jim mk2]

We differ on our definitions Ultra. People in the lower income bracket but in work are not dole dollopers or workshy. These people need our help. It's the ones who are capable of work but choose to live on benefits that I want to hit and I see many of them in Accrington and Blackburn. They are parasites and I do not want my taxes to support them.

It's those working on lower incomes that these cuts will hit hardest. £12bn has to come from somewhere and child benefit and tax credits for working families have been earmarked for cuts.

Parasites are the people who earn vast fortunes and do not pay their taxes - a problem that costs this country far more than supporting the so-called. "dollopers".

[yoda]

It's those working on lower incomes that these cuts will hit hardest. £12bn has to come from somewhere and child benefit and tax credits for working families have been earmarked for cuts.

Parasites are the people who earn vast fortunes and do not pay their taxes - a problem that costs this country far more than supporting the so-called. "dollopers".

Parasite :- An organism that lives off or in another organism, obtaining nourishment and protection while offering no benefit in return

[jim mk2]

Parasite :- An organism that lives off or in another organism, obtaining nourishment and protection while offering no benefit in return

Thanks for that - sums up the idle rich and non-doms perfectly.

Talking of which, I don't like London and believe it to be the leech on the nation's back sucking in all the best people and most of public and private resources, but the below surely cannot be right for the long term economic health of this country and shows why Ed Miliband's attack on non-doms was absolutely correct. Don't expect to see anything in Gideon's budget to address the problem though.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/lights-out-london-street-where-7-in-10-houses-are-second-homes-10249301.html?origin=internalSearch

[yoda]

Thanks for that - sums up the idle rich and non-doms perfectly.

Talking of which, I don't like London and believe it to be the leech on the nation's back sucking in all the best people and most of public and private resources, but the below surely cannot be right for the long term economic health of this country and shows why Ed Miliband's attack on non-doms was absolutely correct. Don't expect to see anything in Gideon's budget to address the problem though.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/lights-out-london-street-where-7-in-10-houses-are-second-homes-10249301.html?origin=internalSearch

Think you are getting in a bit a twist there Jim, if the capital is sucking all and sundry in, where are they living? if your link is anything to go by.

Are empty mansions in the centre of London really a bad thing, maybe it will ultimately help redress the balance.

You are right of course about London being to big and Manchester as a second national economic power centre would help the nation.

Birmingham being a bit of a lost cause in my opinion.

The high speed rail project should start at Manchester, if the SNP stop being the naughty child in the sweet shop a La' "Me" and "can I have" maybe the Jocks could get a link as well.

[thenodrog]

Those that won't work is a tiny minority Al, but the Tory agenda of cutting benefits is built upon convincing the public all benefit claimants won't work.

Don't be daft Gav, a walk through Blackburn any day of the week is all it takes to convince me where my taxes are being wasted.

The govt's only task is not to make wholesale cuts to benefits but to put in place measures to sort the wheat from the chaff.