[Archived] The General Election 2015

[yoda]

The original point is concerning the Tories punishing the working classes, the poorest in society, whilst leaving hedge funds and tax loopholes alone, it's a disgrace.

It's no concern of mine how many kids people have, sadly due to wage freezes and zero hours contracts people are finding it hard to make ends meet, cut child benefit and working tax credit and these are the next ones queueing at the food banks.

As for George, he was called Gideon until he changed his name to George.

Is that the one who distributes the bible for free

[Baz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25287068

Is this not a better definition of what is being discussed, the increase of the working poor?

[adopted scouser]

Is that the one who distributes the bible for free

Are they from Gidea ? (Hicks )

I actually don't mind the minor 'benefits' that give a leg up to people who go out to work. It's difficult for some people to get full time hours and an addition to their take home is fine. We should support those who are willing to go out to work.

I'm with Al though on those who simply cannot be bothered to work at all (and there are a lot of them). Anyone who thinks these people don't exist is breathtakingly naive, the welfare system is supposed to be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice. Go and have a look around Wythenshawe, not a days work in most of them but going home with boxes of ale on matchdays, smoking like chimneys and getting dragged along by a couple of Staffies.

To describe them as vulnerable is a nonsense, as vulnerable as Cerberus.

[Baz]

No one will stick up for giving people who can, but decide not to work.

However, its a tiny fraction of the benefits bill.

Its a lot less than the government pays in housing benefits to working people - which is money then paid back out of the system to private landlords. Lets see where IDS identifies where cuts can be made, but Id be very surprised if he targets that money, or maybe he could look at pensioners as they are the least affected by any cuts so far. The trouble is they are vote losing policies.

[yoda]

No one will stick up for giving people who can, but decide not to work.

However, its a tiny fraction of the benefits bill.

Its a lot less than the government pays in housing benefits to working people - which is money then paid back out of the system to private landlords. Lets see where IDS identifies where cuts can be made, but Id be very surprised if he targets that money, or maybe he could look at pensioners as they are the least affected by any cuts so far. The trouble is they are vote losing policies.

Targeting pensioners is not on, we will all be one, one day, you pay your dues all your working life and should be able to retire without worry.

[jim mk2]

Not independent then. I'm not interested in your cherry picked quotes from socialists Jim. State your own case or shut up. Not that it matters, you lost the election you know.

There can be no more independent witnesses than Mervyn King, Nicholas MacPherson and the Insititute for Fiscal Studies. What is it that you don't understand ?

[den]

Targeting pensioners is not on, we will all be one, one day, you pay your dues all your working life and should be able to retire without worry.

Good lad.

[Baz]

Targeting pensioners is not on, we will all be one, one day, you pay your dues all your working life and should be able to retire without worry.

Thought you may take the bait Al (though it's increasingly likely that Ill pay all my life, and there will be no state pension for me.)

Anyhow, once we've targetted the workshy where are the rest of the welfare cuts coming from? Families or the disabled?

[Gav]

Thing is if you make the hedge funds pay stamp duty that's a massive amount of money for the government, why won't they do it?

The hedge funds back the Tories to the tune of millions.......

So they cut welfare budgets instead, it really is as black and white as that.

[yoda]

Thing is if you make the hedge funds pay stamp duty that's a massive amount of money for the government, why won't they do it?

The hedge funds back the Tories to the tune of millions.......

So they cut welfare budgets instead, it really is as black and white as that.

Is that documented somewhere ?

Is it any different to the unions donating to the Labour party.

All donations should ruled out and funding come from public funds.

Official figures

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/donations-and-loans-to-political-parties/quarterly-donations-and-loans

[Gav]

Is that documented somewhere ?

Is it any different to the unions donating to the Labour party.

All donations should ruled out and funding come from public funds

The Labour Party have had donations from hedge funds but on a much smaller scale and they can't change the rules on stamp duty, the Tories can but don't....

As for the difference between the unions and hedge funds not paying stamp duty, I don't need to explain that I'm sure.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/how-hedge-fund-superrich-donated-19m-to-tory-party-10024548.html

[yoda]

The Labour Party have had donations from hedge funds but on a much smaller scale and they can't change the rules on stamp duty, the Tories can but don't....

As for the difference between the unions and hedge funds not paying stamp duty, I don't need to explain that I'm sure.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/how-hedge-fund-superrich-donated-19m-to-tory-party-10024548.html

Yep, one body tells a political party what it has to do, the other asks it for favours

[Sandiway Blue]

Can't you do google gav?

http://how-rich.com/143/how-rich-is-ed-miliband/

"He talks transparency and stripping the big millions from politics; however he owns a 1.6 million pound house in an exclusive London neighbourhood and has used the inheritance rules of the land to his advantage. Some say his net worth might be 5 million pounds or US$ 8 million."

Now it seems that the 5m is open to interpretation but I doubt anybody would estimate his wealth at 5x wrong. Also estimations of his house value would be easy to estimate. tbh He's just about everything you have professed to despise in this thread....... Oh and by definition a hypocrite to boot of course.

And that was from 3 years ago he's hardly likely to be any worse off now.....

[Gav]

Yep, one body tells a political party what it has to do, the other asks it for favours

So what about tax on the Tory parties donors the hedge funds? Does it not irritate you that they refuse to tax them? But cut welfare?

[Sandiway Blue]

Not exactly earth-shattering news that a Westminster MP is from privilege is it??

No but it is funny that Jim would label Cameron as a "southern Eton-Oxbridge toff" who would obviously be "out of touch" with the electorate,whilst Red Ed "southern ox-vard toff" is obviously in-tune with the electorate...

[Gav]

And that was from 3 years ago he's hardly likely to be any worse off now.....

Philip Beresford who complies the Sunday Times rich list thinks Cameron is worth over 30m, to put things into perspective.

[Sandiway Blue]

The original point is concerning the Tories punishing the working classes, the poorest in society, whilst leaving hedge funds and tax loopholes alone, it's a disgrace.

It's no concern of mine how many kids people have, sadly due to wage freezes and zero hours contracts people are finding it hard to make ends meet, cut child benefit and working tax credit and these are the next ones queueing at the food banks.

As for George, he was called Gideon until he changed his name to George.

They've were in place under the last Labour government and yet they did nothing about it?

[Gav]

They've were in place under the last Labour government and yet they did nothing about it?

That makes it ok then bacup....

Thatcher de-regulated the banks, are we blaming the Tories for the cuts and austerity?

[yoda]

So what about tax on the Tory parties donors the hedge funds? Does it not irritate you that they refuse to tax them? But cut welfare?

The two are not connected, you are allowing your judgment to be impaired , maybe been listening to Jim too much.

Besides not one of the main parties have done anything about it so it's no use griping about just one party.

One item I would definitely change is how pension are treated, the should be determined by an independent body and taken away from government control.

Thatcher deregulated the stock exchange.

[Sandiway Blue]

That makes it ok then bacup....

Thatcher de-regulated the banks, are we blaming the Tories for the cuts and austerity?

Point i'm making Gav is that Labour will continually deride 'the Nasty party' for introducing these 'cruel' policies,but when they were in power they do NOTHING to address these policies nevermind reverse them! Labour tried to make 'Zero hour contracts' a major tory policy target but the truth is it backfired on them.I work with people who are on 'Zero hour contracts' and not one of them complain,they ALL prefer to have the zero hour contract as they can pick and choose the shifts that they want to work and arrange the shifts around their lifestyle.

[Gav]

The two are not connected, you are allowing your judgment to be impaired , maybe been listening to Jim too much.

Besides not one of the main parties have done anything about it so it's no use griping about just one party.

One item I would definitely change is how pension are treated, the should be determined by an independent body and taken away from government control.

Thatcher deregulated the stock exchange.

You didn't answer the question, does it not irritate you that the Tories refuse to tax hedge funds but cut welfare instead?

[yoda]

You didn't answer the question, does it not irritate you that the Tories refuse to tax hedge funds but cut welfare instead?

Maybe you missed the bit where I said the two are not connected, ergo irritation is not an issue

Successive governments playing around with pensions is an irritation.

I would also make councillors have a similar legal status to company directors.

[Gav]

Point i'm making Gav is that Labour will continually deride 'the Nasty party' for introducing these 'cruel' policies,but when they were in power they do NOTHING to address these policies nevermind reverse them! Labour tried to make 'Zero hour contracts' a major tory policy target but the truth is it backfired on them.I work with people who are on 'Zero hour contracts' and not one of them complain,they ALL prefer to have the zero hour contract as they can pick and choose the shifts that they want to work and arrange the shifts around their lifestyle.

You joined the debate late in the day bacup, the points being made were around the cuts to welfare, child benefit being Osbournes next objective and then working families tax credit.

Why cut these benefits yet refuse to enforce a stamp duty on hedge funds?

It's a simple question that nobody on here is willing to answer?

Maybe you missed the bit where I said the two are not connected, ergo irritation is not an issue

Of course they're connected.

But for arguements sake we'll play by Yodas rules and say they're not connected, so why target the poorest in society to save money?

Why don't the Tories save money by adding stamp duty to hedge funds?

How's that?

[Sandiway Blue]

You joined the debate late in the day bacup, the points being made were around the cuts to welfare, child benefit being Osbournes next objective and then working families tax credit.

Why cut these benefits yet refuse to enforce a stamp duty on hedge funds?

It's a simple question that nobody on here is willing to answer?

Tbh? i don't have a clue about hedge funds,different world to one that i live in which is why i tend to comment on matters that i do have knowledge about.

[yoda]

You joined the debate late in the day bacup, the points being made were around the cuts to welfare, child benefit being Osbournes next objective and then working families tax credit.

Why cut these benefits yet refuse to enforce a stamp duty on hedge funds?

It's a simple question that nobody on here is willing to answer?

Of course they're connected.

But for arguements sake we'll play by Yodas rules and say they're not connected, so why target the poorest in society to save money?

Why don't the Tories save money by adding stamp duty to hedge funds?

How's that?

Same question and you know it, as for the stamp duty I don't personally know why and neither do you.

There are bigger issues than stamp duty on hedge funds though.

Like legal status for councilors