[Archived] The General Election 2015

[Mike E]

Absolute Rubbish, with respect.

Lion and gazelle is a natural occurrence, gazelle is a food source.

Fox and hounds/posh folk on horses is some sort of perverted afternoon jolly up akin to bull fighting in my book.

As for the jobs side of things, 1000 jobs is nothing in the grand scheme of things and I'm being generous with the numbers, it's probably half that amount.

Keep than ban I say.

I'm with you on this. Human cruelty to animals (this is NOT a 'culling' issue) is up there with the very worst crimes. If you can be cruel to an animal, you can be cruel to a baby. It's sickening.

Humane slaughter for food is another thing entirely, although I'll be happier when we successfully recreate meat by growing it in labs. We're already underway in terms of produce, but not taste.

[thenodrog]

Poll tax? . Riots over that one.

Why though?

Anyway only by work shy dollopers and anarchists in the main if my memory serves me correctly.

So socialists should be in favour of flat tax rates and you lose a debate on regressive and progressive taxes if you mention percentages.

Social equallity being one of the principles of socialism and communism......... only when it suits of course.

[thenodrog]

To be honest it doesn't really impact on my life, but surely any right minded person would agree that dogs ripping an exhausted fox to bits is barbaric.

I'd also take issue with the fox hunting brigade that claim they control the fox population, you only need look at the numbers to see they'd have to fox hunt 365 days a year, 24hrs a day to control the population, its simply not true. The numbers of people losing incomes/jobs due to the ban is estimated to be less than 1000, so hardly a major impact their either.

But the reason for bringing it up goes towards the Tories looking after their rich mates again, this is a clear example.

Lets hope it gets voted out.

They don't just kill one and eat it Gav..

[ultrablue]

Why though?

Anyway only by work shy dollopers and anarchists in the main if my memory serves me correctly.

Social equallity being one of the principles of socialism and communism......... only when it suits of course.

Socialists are for equality of outcome, not equality of input.

That means they are 100% against poll taxes, flat tax rates and indirect taxes like VAT.

[thenodrog]

You mean like lice and ticks? Small wonder nobody likes them. If what you say is true then socialists appear to share a mind set with the average burglar.

So ultrablue to help provide for and feed my family I dig my garden over in the spring and plant potatoes, lettuce, carrots, peas, fruit etc, then I weed and care for it all summer and then when the crops are ready you come over the fence, trample around and take what you want? My brand of social justice would see you end up with a spade wrapped around the back of your head and fertilising next years crop.

[yoda]

Socialists are for equality of outcome, not equality of input.

That means they are 100% against poll taxes, flat tax rates and indirect taxes like VAT.

How does that work in for example Blair's, Milliband's and Brand's cases, What have they input that equates to their output ?

Seems to me that the socialist leaders you hold dear do the same as the rest but drag you along under some non existant socialist ideal while they are lining their pockets at your expense (the ones that work that is)

[thenodrog]

Any accountants, tax inspectors, assorted bean counters out there...........

Tony Bliar's worth is frequently estimated at £75,000,000 or thereabouts. There is no suggestion (as yet) that he has practised tax evasion, I am not sure about tax avoidance of course BUT what would he have had to gross to pay all taxes due and still end up with that amount? My guess would be going on £200,000,000 gross. SO given that he resigned 8 years ago and that he would be at best 'comfortable' but not wealthy on a PM's salary at that time (PM's salary being less that Rahim Sterling could earn in a week at Liverpool) then he must have earned circa 25,000,000 per annum OR just short of £500,000 per week!!! Now with Sat and Sunday off to spend with Cherie and the kids thats £100,000 per day!!! Given also that he's up and down spending unpaid time by playing some latter day Henry Kissinger then it's even more.

So just WTF has he been doing to assimilate all that wealth? The only possibility that I can readily come up with is that he actually found those WMD's after all and then flogged them off to that nutter in North Korea's equally nutty dad? If not then were they covertly shipped over Iraq's border into Iran in return the Peacock Throne itself! Surely whatever it was can neither have been a. legal or b. ethical?

[ultrablue]

Eh? What have I said that has led you to believe I support socialism? I was pointing out that what thenodrog said about why socialists should be in favour of poll taxes was flat out wrong.

I too would be pretty miffed if the government took away all the fruits of my hard labour and shared it in the name of the collective good. But of course they have the right to take some, as they provide the security should my garden fail one year.

As for labour yoda, we all know they stopped being socialist when they dropped clause 4 back in 1994. Now they are the party of slightly higher taxes and slightly more spending.

If you are curious, I'm a liberal. Always have been, always will be.

[thenodrog]

If you are curious, I'm a liberal. Always have been, always will be.

Why? I honestly can never understand people voting Liberal. A wasted vote or at least until 2010. When Clegg went into coalition and at last gave the people who voted Liberal some significant influence in governing the country they have been a nothing party. No say and no influence in the running of the country. For his trouble he has been demonised by the Liberal voters.

Were you happy to see his previous supporters knifing him in the back in the last election ultrable?

[ultrablue]

Well i havent always ended up voted for them.

Clegg was the right man at the right time back in 2010 and that's why the Lib Dems did so well. But the party hasn't been prepared for power. Clegg had to go for the party to move on. The knives in the back are standard political maneuvers.

They have always found themselves representing a third way in a two party system, but spreading themselves too thin as they pick up the votes from the big 2. This is why PR is so important to the Lib Dems and why the UK is gasping for a change of system.

[yoda]

Well i havent always ended up voted for them.

Clegg was the right man at the right time back in 2010 and that's why the Lib Dems did so well. But the party hasn't been prepared for power. Clegg had to go for the party to move on. The knives in the back are standard political maneuvers.

They have always found themselves representing a third way in a two party system, but spreading themselves too thin as they pick up the votes from the big 2. This is why PR is so important to the Lib Dems and why the UK is gasping for a change of system.

The Lib Dems might be gasping but I don't think the Tories, Labour or the SNP are

[K-Hod]

The Lib Dems might be gasping but I don't think the Tories, Labour or the SNP are

They wouldn't would they? As much as I wasn't keen on UKIP, it seemed daft that they only got 1 seat with the percentage of votes they won!

[jim mk2]

Well i havent always ended up voted for them.

Clegg was the right man at the right time back in 2010 and that's why the Lib Dems did so well. But the party hasn't been prepared for power. Clegg had to go for the party to move on. The knives in the back are standard political maneuvers.

They have always found themselves representing a third way in a two party system, but spreading themselves too thin as they pick up the votes from the big 2. This is why PR is so important to the Lib Dems and why the UK is gasping for a change of system.

Liberal Democrats have got to stop living in denial and admit that their pact with the Tories was a gross error.

True Liberals despise the Tories as much as Labour and Lib Demmers of my acquaintance will never ever forgive him for putting the Tories in power in 2010. I'm surprised they won as many as 8 seats on May 7 such was the defection from the party and Clegg has managed to set back the party more than 25 years in terms of the support it has been building since the days of Steel and Kennedy.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the dozens of hard working Lib-Dem MPs, MSPs and MEPs to have paid with their political careers for Clegg's strategic ineptitude, and for the thousands of Lib-Dem councilors up and down the country to have suffered the severe public backlash against it too.

At least they seem decent people unlike the Tory gutter snipes (examples are on regular view on this thread) who are incapable of understanding that the Conservatives party represents the wealthy and the privileged and does everything in its power to transfer even more wealth and power to the tiny super-rich minority at the expense of everyone else.

[yoda]

Liberal Democrats have got to stop living in denial and admit that their pact with the Tories was a gross error.

True Liberals despise the Tories as much as Labour and Lib Demmers of my acquaintance will never ever forgive him for putting the Tories in power in 2010. I'm surprised they won as many as 8 seats on May 7 such was the defection from the party and Clegg has managed to set back the party more than 25 years in terms of the support it has been building since the days of Steel and Kennedy.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the dozens of hard working Lib-Dem MPs, MSPs and MEPs to have paid with their political careers for Clegg's strategic ineptitude, and for the thousands of Lib-Dem councilors up and down the country to have suffered the severe public backlash against it too.

At least they seem decent people unlike the Tory gutter snipes (examples are on regular view on this thread) who are incapable of understanding that the Conservatives party represents the wealthy and the privileged and does everything in its power to transfer even more wealth and power to the tiny super-rich minority at the expense of everyone else.

They all do the same when they smell power Jim.

Just ask Blair. (the super rich one)

If the Tories represent the privileged would that include the likes of Milliband ?

Just how much money have those so called socialist got including the latest recruit Brand?

[thenodrog]

If you are curious, I'm a liberal. Always have been, always will be.

Well i havent always ended up voted for them.

[Dreyski]

Small 'L'?

[thenodrog]

Liberal Democrats have got to stop living in denial and admit that their pact with the Tories was a gross error.

True Liberals despise the Tories as much as Labour and Lib Demmers of my acquaintance will never ever forgive him for putting the Tories in power in 2010. I'm surprised they won as many as 8 seats on May 7 such was the defection from the party and Clegg has managed to set back the party more than 25 years in terms of the support it has been building since the days of Steel and Kennedy.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the dozens of hard working Lib-Dem MPs, MSPs and MEPs to have paid with their political careers for Clegg's strategic ineptitude, and for the thousands of Lib-Dem councilors up and down the country to have suffered the severe public backlash against it too.

At least they seem decent people unlike the Tory gutter snipes (examples are on regular view on this thread) who are incapable of understanding that the Conservatives party represents the wealthy and the privileged and does everything in its power to transfer even more wealth and power to the tiny super-rich minority at the expense of everyone else.

Hang on! Don't the election stats now reveal that most disaffected LibDem vote actually switched to Tory? Also that much inroads into the Labour vote North of the border by the SNP and south of the border was made by UKIP? The nett result was that Labour was being effectively weakened by two strongly nationalistic parties! You might find a strong clue here..... http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/resources/images/3738739/

All this was precisely why this election was so fascinating and as the polls revealed unpredictable.

[yoda]

Hang on! Don't the election stats now reveal that most disaffected LibDem vote actually switched to Tory? Also that much inroads into the Labour vote North of the border by the SNP and south of the border was made by UKIP? The nett result was that Labour was being effectively weakened by two strongly nationalistic parties! You might find a strong clue here..... http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/resources/images/3738739/

All this was precisely why this election was so fascinating and as the polls revealed unpredictable.

Like rabbits in the headlights are our socialists at the moment Gordon.

I could never fathom why, in Blackburn a Jewish/Labour MP was elected for the last 30 plus years.

[Gav]

I could never fathom why, in Blackburn a Jewish/Labour MP was elected for the last 30 plus years.

Not for the reasons you're alluding too.

Jack Straw did a tremendous job for the town, put Blackburn on the map and I was very happy indeed that he served as our MP for so long.

[jim mk2]

Hang on! Don't the election stats now reveal that most disaffected LibDem vote actually switched to Tory? Also that much inroads into the Labour vote North of the border by the SNP and south of the border was made by UKIP? The nett result was that Labour was being effectively weakened by two strongly nationalistic parties! You might find a strong clue here..... http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/resources/images/3738739/

All this was precisely why this election was so fascinating and as the polls revealed unpredictable.

Lib Dems is an essentially left-leaning party. Tories benefited from tactical voting owing to the fear and scaremongering engineered by the right wing media and broadcasters against Labour.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Lib Dems is an essentially left-leaning party. Tories benefited from tactical voting owing to the fear and scaremongering engineered by the right wing media and broadcasters against Labour.

Seeing as I haven't bothered to say it yet, hahahahaha. Bet you loved that one eh Jim! That's what happens when the bullying loudmouth left go around together shouting their heads off and ignoring the deafening silence all around them. Too many people like you in the Labour activist camp, with no time whatsoever for anyone else's opinion and utterly convinced about your own zealot-like ranting. Its a lot less effective at brow-beating people over to the left than you obviously seem to think.

And right-wing media, are you having a flipping laugh? It was phenomenally enjoyable waking up that morning to sour-faced BBC presenters, sour-sounding radio presenters and most of the rest of the left-leaning media. If you honestly think journalists are mostly right-wing then its just another one to add to your long list of delusions. Still, you've got plenty of time to sit around complaining and making up conspiracy theories and excuses for why everyone doesn't agree with you. 5 years to be precise, lol.

[jim mk2]

Seeing as I haven't bothered to say it yet, hahahahaha. Bet you loved that one eh Jim! That's what happens when the bullying loudmouth left go around together shouting their heads off and ignoring the deafening silence all around them. Too many people like you in the Labour activist camp, with no time whatsoever for anyone else's opinion and utterly convinced about your own zealot-like ranting. Its a lot less effective at brow-beating people over to the left than you obviously seem to think.

And right-wing media, are you having a flipping laugh? It was phenomenally enjoyable waking up that morning to sour-faced BBC presenters, sour-sounding radio presenters and most of the rest of the left-leaning media. If you honestly think journalists are mostly right-wing then its just another one to add to your long list of delusions. Still, you've got plenty of time to sit around complaining and making up conspiracy theories and excuses for why everyone doesn't agree with you. 5 years to be precise, lol.

Standard moan by the right about the BBC but not based on facts. Consider this: the chair of the BBC Trust is former Thatcher minister, Chris Patten, the BBC's chief political editor is the former chair of Oxford Conservatives, Nick Robinson, his deputy was a schoolmate of Cameron's at Eton, the BBC's chief political presenter is also the Chairman of Spectator Magazine, Andrew Neil (also a former Tory party activist) and the Question Time chair, David Dimbleby is a former member of the Bullingdon Club.

As one of the turkeys who voted for Christmas good luck for the next 5 years.

[yoda]

Not for the reasons you're alluding too.

Jack Straw did a tremendous job for the town, put Blackburn on the map and I was very happy indeed that he served as our MP for so long.

Yes I know he did, had many meetings with him and he did a few things for me/the company I worked for and personally over the years.

What reasons am I alluding too ?

I just don't get that a large part of the electorate who are conservative by nature, vote for anything with a Labour tag on it.

[Gav]

Yes I know he did, had many meetings with him and he did a few things for me/the company I worked for and personally over the years.

What reasons am I alluding too ?

I just don't get that a large part of the electorate who are conservative by nature, vote for anything with a Labour tag on it.

With you mentioning his Jewish heritage I thought you meant the Asian vote, you did didn't you? If not I apologies.

Blackburns a Labour town, working class at its core, so I can't see why you'd be surprised.

Let's hope Kate Hollern does half as good of a job. The missus worked with her for years and thinks she's got what it takes.

[jim mk2]

I just don't get that a large part of the electorate who are conservative by nature, vote for anything with a Labour tag on it.

Wrong question.

The real conundrum is why anyone other than the super rich would vote Tory when the Conservatives have always transferred power and wealth to the 1 per cent at the expense of everyone else .