[Archived] The General Election 2015

[yoda]

With you mentioning his Jewish heritage I thought you meant the Asian vote, you did didn't you? If not I apologies.

Blackburns a Labour town, working class at its core, so I can't see why you'd be surprised.

Let's hope Kate Hollern does half as good of a job. The missus worked with her for years and thinks she's got what it takes.

Has Blackburn not changed over the years though, I would say it is very entrepreneurial now, with a lot of the credit for that down to the Asian part of the population.

Wrong question.

The real conundrum is why anyone other than the super rich would vote Tory when the Conservatives have always transferred power and wealth to the 1 per cent at the expense of everyone else .

No Jim, that is you trying to take what I said off at a tangent because you have not yet accepted that Labour got trounced due to attitudes like yours.

Still only five years to go.

[thenodrog]

With you mentioning his Jewish heritage I thought you meant the Asian vote, you did didn't you? If not I apologies.

Blackburns a Labour town, working class at its core, so I can't see why you'd be surprised.

Let's hope Kate Hollern does half as good of a job. The missus worked with her for years and thinks she's got what it takes.

I can't rem how many times I have asked you this Gav........ Can you define the term 'working class'? Please? You must surely be getting embarrassed now.

As for Kate Hollern, I think the link on my previous post illustrates perfectly that she has sold out and is now wholly representing the immigrant muslim vote. If so then by definition it must be mighty difficult if not impossible to represent a. the indigenous and b. members of ANY other religion as well.

[thenodrog]

Wrong question.

The real conundrum is why anyone other than the super rich would vote Tory when the Conservatives have always transferred power and wealth to the 1 per cent at the expense of everyone else .

No, regarding Blackburn the real conundrum in the context of that link to the LT is why any indigenous voter can possibly vote Labour and be daft enough to believe that the towns MP would ever consider representing their best interests.

[Gav]

I can't rem how many times I have asked you this Gav........ Can you define the term 'working class'? Please? You must surely be getting embarrassed now.

As for Kate Hollern, I think the link on my previous post illustrates perfectly that she has sold out and is now wholly representing the immigrant muslim vote. If so then by definition it must be mighty difficult if not impossible to represent a. the indigenous and b. members of ANY other religion as well.

Why would I be embarrassed?

You should be embarrassed by referring to people as 'Muslim immigrants' when in fact these voters are born and bred here, and what your saying is something the BNP or EDL would say, not a fair minded chap like you Gordon.

[roverzee]

Liberal Democrats have got to stop living in denial

THEY'RE in denial?? Have you looked in a mirror during the past two weeks?

[Gav]

So Cameron wants to seize the wages of illegal immigrants working in Britain.

Why isn't he going after the people that exploit these workers?

Hammering the poorest in society again, the Tory way.

[yoda]

So Cameron wants to seize the wages of illegal immigrants working in Britain.

Why isn't he going after the people that exploit these workers?

Hammering the poorest in society again, the Tory way.

He is, they get fined up to £10k

[Gav]

He is, they get fined up to £10k

2/3 of those fines have never been collected, Why?

[ultrablue]

Small 'L'?

That's right. I know better than to vote with my heart in our general elections.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Standard moan by the right about the BBC but not based on facts. Consider this: the chair of the BBC Trust is former Thatcher minister, Chris Patten, the BBC's chief political editor is the former chair of Oxford Conservatives, Nick Robinson, his deputy was a schoolmate of Cameron's at Eton, the BBC's chief political presenter is also the Chairman of Spectator Magazine, Andrew Neil (also a former Tory party activist) and the Question Time chair, David Dimbleby is a former member of the Bullingdon Club.

As one of the turkeys who voted for Christmas good luck for the next 5 years.

I suppose "standard moan by the right" is toned down somewhat from "right-wing claptrap". I see you've learnt something in persuasion tactics from Labour's election annihilation.

If the BBC's biased left-wing media coverage is a standard complaint by the right, then doesn't that imply that regardless of who's in charge of it, the BBC comes across as left-wing? I take your point about the people who run it but there's obviously over-riding factors pushing the other way such as their determination to appease the proportionally far more vocal left. On their website recently there was an article titled "Why are American cops killing black people". If that isn't a hugely biased, inflammatory headline then I don't know what is. No context, no restraint, read literally it implies a campaign of institutionalised genocide is going on in American. The BBC are definitely left wing.

I voted for UKIP actually, precisely for the reason in the recent headlines. 300,000 net immigration per year and rising fast. Lets say in the next 50 years that averages at 500,000 per year. That's 25 million. In the next 100 years its 50 million. Add to that the far higher birth rate amongst immigrants. Immigration in England will wreck the countryside, cripple the infrastructure, wipe out the culture as we currently know it and lower the general standard of living.

UKIP want to deal with it and have some bottle, the Tories want to deal with it and have no bottle, Labour don't want to deal with it because of the moronically naive P.C. attitude of far too many of its MPs and voters.

[ultrablue]

I voted for UKIP actually, precisely for the reason in the recent headlines. 300,000 net immigration per year and rising fast. Lets say in the next 50 years that averages at 500,000 per year. That's 25 million. In the next 100 years its 50 million. Add to that the far higher birth rate amongst immigrants. Immigration in England will wreck the countryside, cripple the infrastructure, wipe out the culture as we currently know it and lower the general standard of living.

Do you feel that vote made any difference Steve?

[K-Hod]

I suppose "standard moan by the right" is toned down somewhat from "right-wing claptrap". I see you've learnt something in persuasion tactics from Labour's election annihilation.

If the BBC's biased left-wing media coverage is a standard complaint by the right, then doesn't that imply that regardless of who's in charge of it, the BBC comes across as left-wing? I take your point about the people who run it but there's obviously over-riding factors pushing the other way such as their determination to appease the proportionally far more vocal left. On their website recently there was an article titled "Why are American cops killing black people". If that isn't a hugely biased, inflammatory headline then I don't know what is. No context, no restraint, read literally it implies a campaign of institutionalised genocide is going on in American. The BBC are definitely left wing.

I voted for UKIP actually, precisely for the reason in the recent headlines. 300,000 net immigration per year and rising fast. Lets say in the next 50 years that averages at 500,000 per year. That's 25 million. In the next 100 years its 50 million. Add to that the far higher birth rate amongst immigrants. Immigration in England will wreck the countryside, cripple the infrastructure, wipe out the culture as we currently know it and lower the general standard of living.

UKIP want to deal with it and have some bottle, the Tories want to deal with it and have no bottle, Labour don't want to deal with it because of the moronically naive P.C. attitude of far too many of its MPs and voters.

I don't know, in every party's (including Labour) manifesto there was something about immigration, as you're right, it is an issue. People need to stop thinking of immigration as a dirty word that immediately makes you a racist, as it's far from that, just simple common sense. (Though some of Farage's rhetoric about immigration was bizarre to say the least).

A system similar to Australia's would be a start, but the EU and freedom of movement would make that difficult, and I definitely don't think leaving the EU wouldn't be the answer.

[yoda]

2/3 of those fines have never been collected, Why?

How would you know that and why would that be the Tories fault, it would be a Police/courts issue

[Mike E]

Do you feel that vote made any difference Steve?

I know I don't, but it should have. Just as votes for the Greens and LibDems should too.

Under this system your vote only matters if you vote for the winner.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Maybe the rise of UKIP will have some impact on how tough the Conservatives are on immigration, but I'm not really holding my breath.

There's something about immigration in the Conservatives/Labour manifestos but it means nothing unless the numbers change, and they haven't been for so long now that personally I've stopped trusting them to do anything about it at all.

Its presumably for various reasons an incredibly hard thing to sort out. The impact the PC brigade have had on the issue has been disastrous, they'll have an awful lot to answer for when the problems mass immigration brings start to really take effect. And they definitely will, at least most people have accepted that now, its basic inevitable maths that the white indigenous population will be a minority in a matter of decades.

[K-Hod]

I'd hope the rise of UKIP will make the major parties get their act together and tackle immigration head on, as it's a mess right now.

A simple token act like deporting anyone that commits a crime that's a foreign national would help.

[yoda]

I'd hope the rise of UKIP will make the major parties get their act together and tackle immigration head on, as it's a mess right now.

A simple token act like deporting anyone that commits a crime that's a foreign national would help.

I think the problem the authorities have got is that a large proportion of resources are being taken up monitoring, searching, tracking and accommodating the existing immigrants that are here on licence ( that's the inbetween state of not having "leave to stay" and having "leave to stay") that countless more arrive while they are busy trying to contain the ones already here.

Maybe some king of amnesty would help like the unofficial one the Labour government had some time back.

Deporting the ones that commit a crime is being tried but the Liberal luvvies (EU and UK) are on the case with that one.

[thenodrog]

So Cameron wants to seize the wages of illegal immigrants working in Britain.

Why isn't he going after the people that exploit these workers?

Hammering the poorest in society again, the Tory way.

But the 'poorest in society' as you call them shouldn't be here. So far gav you are completely unable to define the term 'working class' but now it appears that you struggle to comprehend the meaning of 'illegal'.

1. By being here illegally they are 'off the system' and as a result are willing to work for little money, therefore denying jobs to our own unemployed.

2. Whilst they are here one could make a case for them to be 'hammered' by very low wages as a means of discouragement. They are more likely to text home 'it's crap here, I can't make a do and I wish I'd stayed home' than 'hey life's a bowl of cherries in the UK, get yourselves over here asap and bring your mates'.

[thenodrog]

I suppose "standard moan by the right" is toned down somewhat from "right-wing claptrap". I see you've learnt something in persuasion tactics from Labour's election annihilation.

If the BBC's biased left-wing media coverage is a standard complaint by the right, then doesn't that imply that regardless of who's in charge of it, the BBC comes across as left-wing? I take your point about the people who run it but there's obviously over-riding factors pushing the other way such as their determination to appease the proportionally far more vocal left. On their website recently there was an article titled "Why are American cops killing black people". If that isn't a hugely biased, inflammatory headline then I don't know what is. No context, no restraint, read literally it implies a campaign of institutionalised genocide is going on in American. The BBC are definitely left wing.

I voted for UKIP actually, precisely for the reason in the recent headlines. 300,000 net immigration per year and rising fast. Lets say in the next 50 years that averages at 500,000 per year. That's 25 million. In the next 100 years its 50 million. Add to that the far higher birth rate amongst immigrants. Immigration in England will wreck the countryside, cripple the infrastructure, wipe out the culture as we currently know it and lower the general standard of living.

UKIP want to deal with it and have some bottle, the Tories want to deal with it and have no bottle, Labour don't want to deal with it because of the moronically naive P.C. attitude of far too many of its MPs and voters.

Wrong SKH, or should I say partly right .... it's quite obviously because they are the party of the immigrant vote. In Blackburn they clearly place representing the immigrant voters above the indigenous voters. 'moronically naive' is a very accurate description for people who still think Blackburn's politics are dictated by either Labour or Conservative.

I don't know, in every party's (including Labour) manifesto there was something about immigration, as you're right, it is an issue. People need to stop thinking of immigration as a dirty word that immediately makes you a racist, as it's far from that, just simple common sense. (Though some of Farage's rhetoric about immigration was bizarre to say the least).

A system similar to Australia's would be a start, but the EU and freedom of movement would make that difficult, and I definitely don't think leaving the EU wouldn't be the answer.

Quite right and straight out of UKIP's election policy. Presumably you must have voted for UKIP K-Hod?

[thenodrog]

Deporting the ones that commit a crime is being tried but the Liberal luvvies (EU and UK) are on the case with that one.

Change the word 'deporting' for executing and the problem will be solved. They'd all be jumping into the backs of wagons and boots of cars to cross the channel at Dover!

[K-Hod]

Wrong SKH, or should I say partly right .... it's quite obviously because they are the party of the immigrant vote. In Blackburn they clearly place representing the immigrant voters above the indigenous voters. 'moronically naive' is a very accurate description for people who still think Blackburn's politics are dictated by either Labour or Conservative.

Quite right and straight out of UKIP's election policy. Presumably you must have voted for UKIP K-Hod?

Nope, immigration was about the only thing I could agree with them on. Any party with MPs that go on bizarre rants and label places 'bongo bongo land' won't get my vote......

[Gav]

But the 'poorest in society' as you call them shouldn't be here. So far gav you are completely unable to define the term 'working class' but now it appears that you struggle to comprehend the meaning of 'illegal'.

1. By being here illegally they are 'off the system' and as a result are willing to work for little money, therefore denying jobs to our own unemployed.

2. Whilst they are here one could make a case for them to be 'hammered' by very low wages as a means of discouragement. They are more likely to text home 'it's crap here, I can't make a do and I wish I'd stayed home' than 'hey life's a bowl of cherries in the UK, get yourselves over here asap and bring your mates'.

People only need read through this thread to understand who gets and who doesn't Gordon.

You're just rambling for the sake of it in most cases.

How would you know that and why would that be the Tories fault, it would be a Police/courts issue

I read an article recently possibly in Huff post where it claimed 2/3rds of fines have never been paid.

The government could insist on these fines being paid, but they're more interested in hitting the people being exploited.

[yoda]

People only need read through this thread to understand who gets and who doesn't Gordon.

You're just rambling for the sake of it in most cases.

I read an article recently possibly in Huff post where it claimed 2/3rds of fines have never been paid.

The government could insist on these fines being paid, but they're more interested in hitting the people being exploited.

It is not up to the government, it is the job of the courts.

How are they being exploited if they are illegal ?

I personally know of an employer that has just had to pay a £7k fine.

I will just repeat what I posted earlier for you

"I think the problem the authorities have got is that a large proportion of resources are being taken up monitoring, searching, tracking and accommodating the existing immigrants that are here on licence ( that's the inbetween state of not having "leave to stay" and having "leave to stay") that countless more arrive while they are busy trying to contain the ones already here.

Maybe some king of amnesty would help like the unofficial one the Labour government had some time back.

Deporting the ones that commit a crime is being tried but the Liberal luvvies (EU and UK) are on the case with that one."

[Gav]

It's like everything else Yoda, one size doesn't fit all.

As we know plenty of people came in under Labour, hard working people that are probably illegal in the broadest sense of the word but are contributing to society. London would grind to a hault if it wasn't for foreign workers and I bet plenty are illegal as above, but are doing jobs our lot won't do.

It's not easy this immigration lark, that's why the major parties have shied away from it.

[thenodrog]

It's like everything else Yoda, one size doesn't fit all.

As we know plenty of people came in under Labour, hard working people that are probably illegal in the broadest sense of the word but are contributing to society. London would grind to a hault if it wasn't for foreign workers and I bet plenty are illegal as above, but are doing jobs our lot won't do.

It's not easy this immigration lark, that's why the major parties have shied away from it.

There is no broad sense of the word there are just two options legal or illegal. If they are illegal then they won't be paying income tax or NIC will they? They'll be working in sweatshops with sewing machines, car washes, driving nightime taxi cabs and grilling donner meat in late night takeways, dealing in drugs etc etc. tbh it'll be wherever cash is king.

So now you are not only struggling to define the terms 'working class' and 'illegal' it appears the verb 'contribute' means something else in Gav's world. Building up a nice little list aren't we?