[Archived] The General Election 2015

[Biddy]

I've got friends and relatives that are teachers, and not 1 of them is on over 30k, but the holidays are fantastic!

The figure you quote is more likely to be deputy heads or in this area actual head teachers.

That's an average figure so yes, there will be a lot on the 30k bracket (which to be fair is an amazing salary in itself) but there will be a LOT more on way over that 42k average to bring it up to that level.

[Amo]

It's not taxation that I object to it's the unfair way it is imposed on the most successful, hard working members of society.

Why do you assume hard-working and successful are synonymous? What of those born with a silver-spoon in their mouth who have contributed nothing to society?

[thenodrog]

Are we including pension contributions in these figures or not?

Why do you assume hard-working and successful are synonymous? What of those born with a silver-spoon in their mouth who have contributed nothing to society?

Their parents / grandparents or similar will have and anything left to their children will already have been taxed tf!

[Gav]

That's an average figure so yes, there will be a lot on the 30k bracket (which to be fair is an amazing salary in itself) but there will be a LOT more on way over that 42k average to bring it up to that level.

St Wilfred's teacher, relative of mine, 2yrs out of Uni, 24k. Academy teachers are on slightly more, mates wife works at Darwen academy, been a teacher for over 10yrs, 29k.

So if you can tell me where teachers earn 42k I'll let them both know. The head of Darwen Vale earns around 50k, I saw the advert in the paper!

Sorry for taking this off topic but this needs addressing.

[Andyblue2]

That's an average figure so yes, there will be a lot on the 30k bracket (which to be fair is an amazing salary in itself) but there will be a LOT more on way over that 42k average to bring it up to that level.

1. I'm surprised you think 30k to be an amazing salary . It's not enough to get you a £150k house on your own without government hand outs. Maybe some need to aim higher instead of relying on the state to top up.

2. There are some heads on £150k per annum down sarf, I expect that skews the average a bit. Teachers are normally starting on 22k and progressing to around 40k when the take extra responsibilities.

I agree with Gordon that it has become a fall back career for failed doctors/accountants or whatever. Easy to get into with courses 12 months,...perhaps that reflects the youth of today.

[thenodrog]

So thats 195 days of work, at approx 4 hours of active teaching per day (open to debate) leaves (29000 / (195x4)) an hourly rate of just over £37 per hour (pension paid on top). Nice.

tbh I doubt the country could afford them to work full time eh Gav?

....... Oh I forgot there's a bit of marking to do too.

[Andyblue2]

So thats 195 days of work, at approx 4 hours of active teaching per day (open to debate) leaves (29000 / (195x4)) an hourly rate of just over £37 per hour (pension paid on top). Nice.

tbh I doubt the country could afford them to work full time eh Gav?

....... Oh I forgot there's a bit of marking to do too.

What's the pension these days,,,is it final salary?

[thenodrog]

What's the pension these days,,,is it final salary?

Dunno but it'll prob be a gud un and better than most in the private sector. Wasn't long ago teachers were lining up to take early retirement in their mid fifties but I've a feeling there might have been a rule change.

[yoda]

How much in actuality do the top 1 and 10% contribute in tax as a % of their income?

I don't know,

I do know that when I go shopping I spend £'s and don't calculate what percentage of my salary everything costs

[Biddy]

St Wilfred's teacher, relative of mine, 2yrs out of Uni, 24k. Academy teachers are on slightly more, mates wife works at Darwen academy, been a teacher for over 10yrs, 29k.

So if you can tell me where teachers earn 42k I'll let them both know. The head of Darwen Vale earns around 50k, I saw the advert in the paper!

Sorry for taking this off topic but this needs addressing.

So 2 years out of uni and they are already on or very near the UK average. I would say that is pretty good to say they've got their whole careers in front of them. I was not saying I know where these 42k jobs are but that report was the average so there are a lot of people above that rate bringing the figures up.

[Biddy]

1. I'm surprised you think 30k to be an amazing salary . It's not enough to get you a £150k house on your own without government hand outs. Maybe some need to aim higher instead of relying on the state to top up.

Ok, amazing is a little over the top but it certainly isn't bad. Above the national average and I bet there are many millions of people who would dream of being on that type of pay.

You are right, these days its not enough to get £150k house, but then surely they should be living within means and looking at 90k houses. Pretty sure there are plenty of them "up north".

The last line is a bit odd. Is that directed at me? As it seems out of context with the rest of the argument.

[Mike E]

So thats 195 days of work, at approx 4 hours of active teaching per day (open to debate) leaves (29000 / (195x4)) an hourly rate of just over £37 per hour (pension paid on top). Nice.

tbh I doubt the country could afford them to work full time eh Gav?

....... Oh I forgot there's a bit of marking to do too.

I can tell you Gordon, that every teacher I know works at LEAST 55hrs a week including evening and weekend work.

You seem to think that 'in-class' teaching is the only work? You'd be amazed how much time is consumed by marking and planning for the various needs of each child.

The working day you describe (minus the marking, ofc) is even less than what a TA does.

[yoda]

I can tell you Gordon, that every teacher I know works at LEAST 55hrs a week including evening and weekend work.

You seem to think that 'in-class' teaching is the only work? You'd be amazed how much time is consumed by marking and planning for the various needs of each child.

The working day you describe (minus the marking, ofc) is even less than what a TA does.

Golly gosh, poor souls, they must be worn out

Try working minimum 75 hours, every weekend and 6 nights,

Them that can do, them that can't, teach

[Biddy]

Golly gosh, poor souls, they must be worn out

Try working minimum 75 hours, every weekend and 6 nights,

Them that can do, them that can't, teach

Not forgetting the 13 weeks holiday to make up for working a few extra hours.

Anyway, the pay scales are all documented here http://www.education.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/about-teaching/salary/pay-and-benefits

[otto man]

Golly gosh, poor souls, they must be worn out

Try working minimum 75 hours, every weekend and 6 nights,

Them that can do, them that can't, teach

But without those that teach we'd all be ignorant, uneducated and incapable. Any one prepared to run the gauntlet of disrespect, disruption and defiance in today's classrooms has nothing but my admiration.

[yoda]

But without those that teach we'd all be ignorant, uneducated and incapable. Any one prepared to run the gauntlet of disrespect, disruption and defiance in today's classrooms has nothing but my admiration.

I don't dis agree, but why moan about their lot all the time,

You don't actually need teachers to become educated, especially in this day and age

[otto man]

I don't think they were moaning per se mate, but I think the role is seriously underestimated/valued. My son in law and sister in law both teach at secondary level and the hours spent in lesson planning, marking, etc are mind boggling. Both can still be "working" at around 11pm and that's a fairly regular occurrence. Coupled with the abuse they can and do often receive from both pupils and parents I think pound for pound they're a bargain!

[yoda]

I don't think they were moaning per se mate, but I think the role is seriously underestimated/valued. My son in law and sister in law both teach at secondary level and the hours spent in lesson planning, marking, etc are mind boggling. Both can still be "working" at around 11pm and that's a fairly regular occurrence. Coupled with the abuse they can and do often receive from both pupils and parents I think pound for pound they're a bargain!

The abuse is a sign of the times unfortunately and is probably mirroring the rise of the libertarians and politically correct brigade, they have my sympathy on that one

[Mike E]

I don't dis agree, but why moan about their lot all the time,

You don't actually need teachers to become educated, especially in this day and age

I'm certainly not moaning, I know the lot that's heading my way. Decent salary for getting the best out of today's kids. As for the 'holidays', we work through most of them! I broke up for Easter hols Friday before last and tomorrow will be my first rest day (ie: not one jot of work). Admittedly, it's working amongst my home comforts, but it's still work.

I do wish people who think it's so easy would get on a PGCE and do it. Easy money, clearly! Consider that 4/10 NQTs quit in that first year. Consider that 4/5 teachers consider leaving the profession owing to the workload. Or maybe you think all teachers are lying dossers, yet you're happy for your kids to teach them? Strange that.

'Abuse is a sign of the times'? That suggests that you actually sympathise with teachers. Which is it?

[thenodrog]

I'm certainly not moaning, I know the lot that's heading my way. Decent salary for getting the best out of today's kids. As for the 'holidays', we work through most of them! I broke up for Easter hols Friday before last and tomorrow will be my first rest day (ie: not one jot of work). Admittedly, it's working amongst my home comforts, but it's still work.

I must say now that class discipline has become a thing of the past I don't envy teecherz one bit. I could teach 25 kids easily enough but only old school way with a spot of corporal punishment every now and again to keep them in the state of fear that they need to perform to their potential.

[yoda]

I'm certainly not moaning, I know the lot that's heading my way. Decent salary for getting the best out of today's kids. As for the 'holidays', we work through most of them! I broke up for Easter hols Friday before last and tomorrow will be my first rest day (ie: not one jot of work). Admittedly, it's working amongst my home comforts, but it's still work.

I do wish people who think it's so easy would get on a PGCE and do it. Easy money, clearly! Consider that 4/10 NQTs quit in that first year. Consider that 4/5 teachers consider leaving the profession owing to the workload. Or maybe you think all teachers are lying dossers, yet you're happy for your kids to teach them? Strange that.

'Abuse is a sign of the times'? That suggests that you actually sympathise with teachers. Which is it?

I think I made it clear in my post above

[Andyblue2]

Ok, amazing is a little over the top but it certainly isn't bad. Above the national average and I bet there are many millions of people who would dream of being on that type of pay.

You are right, these days its not enough to get £150k house, but then surely they should be living within means and looking at 90k houses. Pretty sure there are plenty of them "up north".

The last line is a bit odd. Is that directed at me? As it seems out of context with the rest of the argument.

Not aimed at you mate no, apologies if it came across like that, I suppose reading back it does.

[ABBEY]

I'm certainly not moaning, I know the lot that's heading my way. Decent salary for getting the best out of today's kids. As for the 'holidays', we work through most of them! I broke up for Easter hols Friday before last and tomorrow will be my first rest day (ie: not one jot of work). Admittedly, it's working amongst my home comforts, but it's still work.

I do wish people who think it's so easy would get on a PGCE and do it. Easy money, clearly! Consider that 4/10 NQTs quit in that first year. Consider that 4/5 teachers consider leaving the profession owing to the workload. Or maybe you think all teachers are lying dossers, yet you're happy for your kids to teach them? Strange that.

'Abuse is a sign of the times'? That suggests that you actually sympathise with teachers. Which is it?

Easy life .. Good money .. amazing hols ..peace of pee ... I know teachers and its a doddle compared to real jobs

[Mike E]

Easy life .. Good money .. amazing hols ..peace of pee ... I know teachers and its a doddle compared to real jobs

No offence mate, but there's a lie in there whether by you or by them. Either that or they've been doing it for many years, close to retirement and a wealth of experience making it 'easy'.

[broadsword]

Wouldn't be a teacher for all the tea in China, just don't have the temperament for it.

sad really, because I think I have the ability to explain technical concepts in a way that kids could understand. And I like watching others grow and develop.

But stand in front of 30 or so kids all day long, five days a week, taking your work home with you, and for a pay cut? Sorry, couldn't do it. It's like surgeons, I couldn't face cutting a body up, I'm just someone else can manage it. Gotta stick to what you're good at.