[Archived] The General Election 2015

[yoda]

Sounds like education snobbery to me, going to university is more than just about the course you’re studying its about meeting new people with different outlooks on life and views. Its about moving to a different town and city in most cases and experiencing different things.

It doesn’t matter what you’re studying it should never be one rule for one and one rule for another in terms on finance, that favours the rich kids, the Tory way.

You can join the armed forces for that, get educated, get paid at the same time, travel to far away exotic places, meet new people and, well you know the rest

[Steve Moss]

You can join the armed forces for that, get educated, get paid at the same time, travel to far away exotic place, meet new people and, well you know the rest

Bingo! Speaking from personal experience, the military doesn't lie when it says join and see the world.

[Baz]

Enough that a course is even offered

Well it was 1 optional module looking at how sport is intertwined in our society. Offered to PE students by Staffordshire Uni about 15 years ago.

But don't let that spoil your argument.

[Mike E]

Well it was 1 optional module looking at how sport is intertwined in our society. Offered to PE students by Staffordshire Uni about 15 years ago.

But don't let that spoil your argument.

I won't:

Beatles, Popular Music and Society (MA)

Wine-making (degree)

Brewing and distillery (degree)

Circus performance (degree)

Ethical hacking (degree)

Football Culture (including the Beckham module...still pointless btw).

Anything that isn't an academic subject shouldn't be a 'degree' imo.

Even my PGCE I find an odd option. Theory is fine but I learned more in the classroom than any of my lectures or seminars. The school direct route is more suitable though.

[BiggusLaddus]

Experiencing life is all well and good, but asking the taxpayer to subsidize one's effort to "meet new people . . ." is a bridge too far.

And personally, I'm much more willing to contribute towards a bright young person's degree in fields like medicine, engineering or teaching, then I am one of the next to worthless degrees, like art or gender studies. If one wants to study art, fine. But don't ask society to pay for it.

I disagree with your last point.

I'm a structural engineer with the engineering degree and professional post grad qualifications to prove it.

I can safely say that without engineering life as we know it would be impossible. Without art it would be unbearable.

[Gav]

I won't:

Beatles, Popular Music and Society (MA)

Wine-making (degree)

Brewing and distillery (degree)

Circus performance (degree)

Ethical hacking (degree)

Football Culture (including the Beckham module...still pointless btw).

Anything that isn't an academic subject shouldn't be a 'degree' imo.

Even my PGCE I find an odd option. Theory is fine but I learned more in the classroom than any of my lectures or seminars. The school direct route is more suitable though.

Ethical hacking or subject matter is keeping the country safe for terrorists, very tough subject with lots of theory.

Master distillers and master wine makers, both very technical disciplines.

Just for a bit of balance, I know several teachers, think they're above everyone else and are all a bit mad! A teacher was sat on the next table to me last night in a restaurant, she spent all meal taking the p1ss out of kids names in her class and stupid parents.......

So be careful Mike, you could be next.

[Baz]

I won't:

Beatles, Popular Music and Society (MA)

Wine-making (degree)

Brewing and distillery (degree)

Circus performance (degree)

Ethical hacking (degree)

Football Culture (including the Beckham module...still pointless btw).

Anything that isn't an academic subject shouldn't be a 'degree' imo.

Even my PGCE I find an odd option. Theory is fine but I learned more in the classroom than any of my lectures or seminars. The school direct route is more suitable though.

Surely the point is the same, people can study what they want. We should be providing funds for the subjects we would like graduates in. We have a crisis at present with a massive shortage of GPs, should we be giving our kids the opportunity to be funded through uni and become a GP, or bring in a load of foreign doctors?

The number of students on the course you point out are minimal at best, its just silly to take a very small number of courses with tiny numbers of students, and say thats why we shouldn't be funding university.

£27k is a stupidly high amount for kids to be saddled with, we should be ashamed as a country to put young people in a position where they have so much debt they are going to struggle to get a mortgage even once they get a decent job.

I bet the whole ethos of government policy would change if we gave 16 year olds the vote, look at how well the lib dems did when they went for the student vote, and how badly they faired when they sold them out.

[Al]

Sounds like education snobbery to me, going to university is more than just about the course you’re studying its about meeting new people with different outlooks on life and views. Its about moving to a different town and city in most cases and experiencing different things.

It doesn’t matter what you’re studying it should never be one rule for one and one rule for another in terms on finance, that favours the rich kids, the Tory way.

Give over GAV. Do you mean to say that a degree in David Beckham or Philosophy should be equal to a degree in Physics? I can't believe you think that.

[yoda]

I won't:

Beatles, Popular Music and Society (MA)

Wine-making (degree)

Brewing and distillery (degree)

Circus performance (degree)

Ethical hacking (degree)

Football Culture (including the Beckham module...still pointless btw).

Anything that isn't an academic subject shouldn't be a 'degree' imo.

Even my PGCE I find an odd option. Theory is fine but I learned more in the classroom than any of my lectures or seminars. The school direct route is more suitable though.

Wine making, Brewing and distillery !

Essential degrees surely

[Al]

No suprise when Thenodrog comes up with completely unfounded talk of genetics. It was only a little while ago that he said black people were genetically more prone to violence.

Theno may not have a detailed knowledge of genetics but what he says makes sound common sense. It's the basis of natural selection. That is not to say that a genius cannot come from a poor background. It's intelligence we are considering not finance but I would contend that normally an intelligent person will have an intelligent recent ancestor. However there can always be a minor mutation to make an exception..

[T J Hooker]

Ethical hacking or subject matter is keeping the country safe for terrorists, very tough subject with lots of theory.

Master distillers and master wine makers, both very technical disciplines.

Just for a bit of balance, I know several teachers, think they're above everyone else and are all a bit mad! A teacher was sat on the next table to me last night in a restaurant, she spent all meal taking the p1ss out of kids names in her class and stupid parents.......

So be careful Mike, you could be next.

My mum's a teacher so I can definitely agree with them all being a little loopy in some way

[imy9]

Theno may not have a detailed knowledge of genetics but what he says makes sound common sense. It's the basis of natural selection. That is not to say that a genius cannot come from a poor background. It's intelligence we are considering not finance but I would contend that normally an intelligent person will have an intelligent recent ancestor. However there can always be a minor mutation to make an exception..

Makes no sense whatsoever. All the research shows that intelligence is NOT fixed. Being born poor or being born rich is simply luck.

The expectations that come with being poor or rich have a massive impact on the lives of the kids.

[Amo]

Did Al just use 'David Beckham' and 'Philosophy' degrees in the same sentence?

That's it, I'm out.

[Al]

Makes no sense whatsoever. All the research shows that intelligence is NOT fixed. Being born poor or being born rich is simply luck.

The expectations that come with being poor or rich have a massive impact on the lives of the kids.

Sorry imy not buying that. Cro-Magnon ---> Homo sapiens. Twas always thus. You can improve the thinking process by education but I believe that pure intelligence is inborn.

[jim mk2]

America is rather a large place. And car ownership is very common. We get around quite a bit. And the traveler pays for his or her own gas, not the government.

Yes, you Europeans travel to foreign countries. Big deal. You could drop several of your foreign countries in just one of our states. My county alone is larger by a third than Wales. You traveling to France is the equivalent of me visiting California.

It is a big deal actually.

The average American would do well to visit the Europe and see the cultural diversity.

Your statement proves that while the US is a big place it's inhabited by people with small minds.

[imy9]

Sorry imy not buying that. Cro-Magnon ---> Homo sapiens. Twas always thus. You can improve the thinking process by education but I believe that pure intelligence is inborn.

You don't have to buy it Al. There are countless scientific studies in this area. A few clicks on Google and it's all there.

Intelligence is NOT fixed. That's not an opinion. That is a fact based on sound scientific research.

[Al]

I have done as you suggested and can find nothing to support your assertions. As I said the thinking process can be improved by education but that is not the same as pure intelligence. I suggest you read "The Flynn effect" and "Beyond the Flynn effect".

[imy9]

Try googling growth mindset as a starting point.

Linked to the poverty angle, read a study a while back which stated that the stresses that poverty caused resulted in the brain not able to function at a higher level (or something to this effect). I'll try to dig it out.

http://www.journeytoexcellence.org.uk/resourcesandcpd/research/summaries/rslearnableintelligence.asp

http://www.apa.org/research/action/smarter.aspx

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/how-hereditary-can-intelligence-be-studies-show-nurture-at-least-as-important-as-nature-a-716614.html

[Lancs Rover]

http://thefan.org.uk/about/

Political site which campaigns for changes in football from an ordinary fan's point of view.

Good to follow on Twitter if you're already on it.

[Steve Moss]

I disagree with your last point.

I'm a structural engineer with the engineering degree and professional post grad qualifications to prove it.

I can safely say that without engineering life as we know it would be impossible. Without art it would be unbearable.

I really like this post. It is well said.

But I think we have a disagreement. I didn't say art was bad. Art is good. But the world needs more engineers, more than it needs another artist.

People should be free to pursue the education they like. Whether the taxpayer pays for it is another question entirely.

It is a big deal actually.

The average American would do well to visit the Europe and see the cultural diversity.

Your statement proves that while the US is a big place it's inhabited by people with small minds.

I won't bore you with the list of foreign countries I've visited or the states I've actually lived in, not to mention the many I've vacationed in. Trust me, it's extensive.

In my small minded American opinion, there is very little that Americans have to be ashamed of compared to the rest of the world, when it comes to education, work ethic, common courtesy or compassion.

Enjoy the snobbery. It may be all that you have left, Jim.

[ABBEY]

My mum's a teacher so I can definitely agree with them all being a little loopy in some way

You got ya dads genes then

[jim mk2]

I won't bore you with the list of foreign countries I've visited or the states I've actually lived in, not to mention the many I've vacationed in. Trust me, it's extensive.

In my small minded American opinion, there is very little that Americans have to be ashamed of compared to the rest of the world, when it comes to education, work ethic, common courtesy or compassion.

Enjoy the snobbery. It may be all that you have left, Jim.

Who said anything shame ? In my opinion the US has nothing to be ashamed of - except gun ownership and the GOP.

But you did say that foreign travel paled in comparison to travelling around the US - which is where you're dead wrong.

Nothing snobbish about Lancashire. We're all down to earth types here.

[T J Hooker]

You got ya dads genes then

he only wears cargos

[Steve Moss]

Who said anything shame ? In my opinion the US has nothing to be ashamed of - except gun ownership and the GOP.

But you did say that foreign travel paled in comparison to travelling around the US - which is where you're dead wrong.

Nothing snobbish about Lancashire. We're all down to earth types here.

I think the GOP is, at it's best, the party of logic and reason.

Gun ownership is the right of a free people.

And travel is travel and people are people. I've been to Asia and I've been to Europe. I've enjoyed my trips to Europe. The people are, for the most part, very pleasant. But, at the end of the day, North America has everything and there is very little to attract one to go overseas, unless it's to watch the Rovers or a soccer tournament.

[ABBEY]

North America don't do steak pudding ,chips , mushy peas and gravy ,with tea cake and a can of fizzy Vimto