[Archived] The General Election 2015

[thenodrog]

Yea where clearly living in different worlds socially and financially speaking i understand what your both saying but you dont get where I and others in my position at the bottom end of the spectrum are coming from.

You are wallowing in it now. Finding excuses for how hard you are done to. Just rem life is not a rehearsal TJ. Think on!

Anyway just as an aside how do you know the background of others? You are making big assumptions based on no info of value. I've no idea about Phil T or Biddy but I've already said on here that I had a good upbringing albeit a relatively poor one. Rented property, 2nd hand most things and hand me downs. My parents hardly ever went out to the pub and never for a meal unless it was a wedding / 21st etc BUT (take note gav) all the bills were paid and there was always food on the table. Anything I may have got now I've worked for.

[Lancs Rover]

How long have you been in this position TJ and who do you blame ?

I've posted this link further up the thread. If you want an explanation read the pdf book. It will depress you like nothing. Basically people's bargaining position seems to have been severely and progressively undermined by the casualisation of the work environment. And the public denuding by successive governments and employers of any arguments that suggest chance rather than personal effort gets you on in life.

If you are on the wrong side of economic 'recovery' - that is, for example, having to take agency work that is doesn't suit your circumstances but turning it down means effective blacklisting - life can become more than a bit hairy. The safety net is not there any more for people who want to stand up and be counted so much nowadays. I know on both counts.

I get TJ being cautious. But think that there should be an alternative to just putting up with things out there somewhere.

http://www.hse.ru/data/2013/01/28/1304836059/Standing.%20The_Precariat__The_New_Dangerous_Class__-Bloomsbury_USA(2011).pdf

[yoda]

I've posted this link further up the thread. If you want an explanation read the pdf book. It will depress you like nothing. Basically people's bargaining position seems to have been severely and progressively undermined by the casualisation of the work environment. And the public denuding by successive governments and employers of any arguments that suggest chance rather than personal effort gets you on in life.

If you are on the wrong side of economic 'recovery' - that is, for example, having to take agency work that is doesn't suit your circumstances but turning it down means effective blacklisting - life can become more than a bit hairy. The safety net is not there any more for people who want to stand up and be counted so much nowadays. I know on both counts.

I get TJ being cautious. But think that there should be an alternative to just putting up with things out there somewhere.

http://www.hse.ru/data/2013/01/28/1304836059/Standing.%20The_Precariat__The_New_Dangerous_Class__-Bloomsbury_USA(2011).pdf

There is always an alternative, do you know TJ's personal circumstances, is the book relevant to him ?

[T J Hooker]

As far as my bargaining position goes and the same with most others at places like mine its simply a case of like it or lump it as far as the employers are concerned(though theyre not actually quite that callus but that's still their bottom line) and by lumping it it suits them as they wouldnt have to pay me off in any way and they can just get a more disposable worker in(in their view) from a temp agency or a youngster that likely would be on a much lower minimum wage rate.

Oh And yada im not looking to blame anybody for anything really, im just stating my position.

[yoda]

As far as my bargaining position goes and the same with most others at places like mine its simply a case of like it or lump it as far as the employers are concerned(though theyre not actually quite that callus but that's still their bottom line) and by lumping it it suits them as they wouldnt have to pay me off in any way and they can just get a more disposable worker in(in their view) from a temp agency or a youngster that likely would be on a much lower minimum wage rate.

Oh And yada im not looking to blame anybody for anything really, im just stating my position.

Fair enough, how long has it been that way though,

It is yoda by the way

[Guest]

Strikes coming from the government's brand new Universal Credit programme already. Good start!

[Baz]

As far as my bargaining position goes and the same with most others at places like mine its simply a case of like it or lump it as far as the employers are concerned(though theyre not actually quite that callus but that's still their bottom line) and by lumping it it suits them as they wouldnt have to pay me off in any way and they can just get a more disposable worker in(in their view) from a temp agency or a youngster that likely would be on a much lower minimum wage rate.

Oh And yada im not looking to blame anybody for anything really, im just stating my position.

Instead of spending your spare time on here, do a course to better yourself, and find a way out to better things?

You don't have to be the most intelligent person to earn good money, look at hgv class 1 drivers, plumbers, brickies etc....

[thenodrog]

Instead of spending your spare time on here, do a course to better yourself, and find a way out to better things?

You don't have to be the most intelligent person to earn good money, look at hgv class 1 drivers, plumbers, brickies etc....

Cue you getting a bollocking from any assorted drivers, plumbers and brickies on here.

Provided they can manage to find the 'on' button on their computer of course.

[T J Hooker]

🙈🙉🙊

Sooo back to politics then, anything interesting going on?

[den]

Last I heard was that Cameron declared "a free vote" on fox hunting - then cancelled the vote when he realised what the outcome was going to be.

Good eh?

[Gav]

Sooo back to politics then, anything interesting going on?

Yes the Labour leadership debates are embarrassing, you got the candidates slagging each other off in the pursuit of power without even a second thought for the future of the party.

If anyone is in any doubt that politicians are out for themselves then this will server only to fuel that fire.

Short sighted.

Last I heard was that Cameron declared "a free vote" on fox hunting - then cancelled the vote when he realised what the outcome was going to be.

Good eh?

I also heard Cameron say that the Tories didn't know about about the Network rail issues that have put the Northern Powerhouse on the back foot.

Right David, we believe you, not worth the paper its written on that manifestos.....

[thenodrog]

Pretty solid speech on isis and the terrorist threat today though. Just so long as he remembers that actions speak louder than words.

37 minutes..........

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-07-20/watch-david-camerons-speech-on-tackling-extremism/

[imy9]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/its-scary-just-how-much-david-cameron-doesnt-seem-to-understand-extremism-10402276.html

Thought his speech overall was good-agree with lots of it, however the root cause is not ideology.

[thenodrog]

imy that articles is simply a 'yes but..... blah blah blah' opinion by someone who has sat down to criticise Cameron but as so often occurs by similar mealy mouthed apologists fails to offer any alternative.

whatever this is irrefutable...

"The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature."

"At all events, the discussion of future grave but, with effort now, avoidable evils is the most unpopular and at the same time the most necessary occupation for the politician. Those who knowingly shirk it deserve, and not infrequently receive, the curses of those who come after."

Spoken almost 50 years ago by a man who unlike David Cameron speaking with the benefit of hindsight actually employed significant and uncannily accurate foresight and whose reward was vilification and the destruction of his political career by those with most to gain from "shirking" their responsibilities as a result. They do indeed receive my curses almost daily.

[thenodrog]

Yes the Labour leadership debates are embarrassing, you got the candidates slagging each other off in the pursuit of power without even a second thought for the future of the party...

Seeing the shenanigans yesterday proves how lucky we are to have missed that particular bullet in May!

[imy9]

imy that articles is simply a 'yes but..... blah blah blah' opinion by someone who has sat down to criticise Cameron but as so often occurs by similar mealy mouthed apologists fails to offer any alternative.

whatever this is irrefutable...

"The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature."

"At all events, the discussion of future grave but, with effort now, avoidable evils is the most unpopular and at the same time the most necessary occupation for the politician. Those who knowingly shirk it deserve, and not infrequently receive, the curses of those who come after."

Spoken almost 50 years ago by a man who unlike David Cameron speaking with the benefit of hindsight actually employed significant and uncannily accurate foresight and whose reward was vilification and the destruction of his political career by those with most to gain from "shirking" their responsibilities as a result. They do indeed receive my curses almost daily.

Don't know about apologists Drog but all the research shows that Cameron is wrong (with regards ideology being the main issue) and his focus is wrong. Surely he would be better advised to listen to the experts, rather than people like Majid Nawaaz who is part of the problem not the solution?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/20/david-cameron-anti-terror-strategy-wrong-expert-says?CMP=share_btn_tw

[thenodrog]

Don't know about apologists Drog but all the research shows that Cameron is wrong (with regards ideology being the main issue) and his focus is wrong. Surely he would be better advised to listen to the experts, rather than people like Majid Nawaaz who is part of the problem not the solution?

Like so many of his contemporaries and predecessors he'd have been better off listening to Powell's warnings all those years back. Whatever anyone say's immigration has been handled dreadfully badly in this country and integration is simply a word that some people use simply in hope and others never even consider. Integration for so many is as tangible and real as Never Never Land.

[Lancs Rover]

Like so many of his contemporaries and predecessors he'd have been better off listening to Powell's warnings all those years back. Â Whatever anyone say's immigration has been handled dreadfully badly in this country and integration is simply a word that some people use simply in hope and others never even consider. Â Integration for so many is as tangible and real as Never Never Land.

Like Rovers, Burnley and Preston fans will be 'integrating' this season?

[thenodrog]

Unfortunately there is much more chance of that mark.

[yoda]

Like Rovers, Burnley and Preston fans will be 'integrating' this season?

What's football got to do with cuttimg someone's head off ?

[imy9]

Jeremy Corbyn is an interesting fella. I am yet to see the other labour candidates challenge him on policy, all I see is them attacking him on a personal level.

For someone with little chance, he is now 3rd favourite to lead the party.

[Al]

What does it matter who is leader of the Labour Party? The loss of the Scottish votes means that the Tories are in power for the foreseeable future.

[K-Hod]

They need someone strong with a pair of nuts, as that party needs a massive re-think and a complete change.

The Labour Party had a massive opportunity at the last election, and have since completely imploded and made a series of massive errors in judgment, in policy, in their choice of leader, and many other things.

The Tories had their act together, and were already in power, plus, they spoke to people with their policies.

After a while of whoever is in power, the swing voters will look around for something different, t'was ever thus.

I hope for Labour's sake by the next election they're more organised and have a tangible plan about what they want to do.

Going on about all the idealistic things of the past won't win votes (to paraphrase Gordon).

(Paraphrasing again, I can think for myself, honest!) I think it was Gav that said 'Labour exists these days to hate the Tories', I'd say he was right.

[thenodrog]

(Paraphrasing again, I can think for myself, honest!) I think it was Gav that said 'Labour exists these days to hate the Tories', I'd say he was right.

nah.... thats the domain of the SNP now.

What does it matter who is leader of the Labour Party? The loss of the Scottish votes means that the Tories are in power for the foreseeable future.

It will swing around if the Tories aren't careful .. it always does when a govt has been in power for a couple of terms, and a coalition will be formed between the SNP and Lab. Lets be honest the SNP are a more extreme left wing Labour North of the border.

[Al]

.

It will swing around if the Tories aren't careful .. it always does when a govt has been in power for a couple of terms, and a coalition will be formed between the SNP and Lab. Lets be honest the SNP are a more extreme left wing Labour North of the border.

God help us if that ever came about Gord. Time to emigrate to a friendly country or have ourselves taxed out of existence to give the lazy all the luxuries they are "entitled" to.