[Archived] Forest

[Tom]

wait till browny is the star man next season , the sadistic streak in me cant wait for the moaning and groaning then.

We've seen it already - it's grim

[K-Hod]

The issue is where are the likes of Cairney? Often doing his best Keith Andrews jogging impression rather than trying to get up to support

Our central midfield must be the least mobile and least attacking in world football. Crabs the lot of them, slow ones at that.

[AggyBlue]

I actually think Rudy puts his flick ons in the right place 90% of the time just his team mates are too slow to react or just too slow in general

His flick ons often go straight to a defender, usually nowhere near a Rovers player.

However I do think Rhodes is more often than not too far away from Rudy to have any chance of getting on the end of one.

[bazza]

That about the midfielders not supporting the front two is very true.

[gumboots]

I watched on saturday and there was a vast open space between the edge of the d and the edge of the centre circle when we were attacking that had nobody in it. that's where our central midfield should have been driving forward. There were guys out wider. there was Rhodes up front with Gestede somewhere in the vicinity and there was this vast empty space where goals are created that was unoccupied by any of our players.It was like someone had put a forcefield round that bit of the pitch so Rovers players couldn't get into it.

[because of boxing day]

The present trend towards midfield inertia, the seeming defiance of the participants to propel themselves beyond the halfway line is in stark contrast to the most exciting pulsating dynamic midfield display that I have witnessed this season that being the first 25 minutes of the 20th December match at home to Charlton.

For those 25 minutes the midfield diamond employed consisted of Lowe Evans Marshall and Tunnicliffe. The flexibility, movement of the players, the control of the ball and pattern of play, the skill. speed and accuracy of passing and the support for the front two, Rhodes and Gestede, was superior to anything else displayed this season even allowing for the notional lack of width and crosses into the box, that was/were to be supplied by overlapping fullbacks.

The unexpected system employed took Charlton by surprise and they couldn't cope until they were 2-0 down at which stage they brought on an additional midfielder who closed the spaces that had brought the success of the early part of the game.

Lowe was soon re-injured and out for the season and Tunnicliffe returned to Fulham. I feel sure that Bowyer would have refined and developed that midfield system with success if the personnel had remained available but it wasn't to be and the system has not been replicated quite in the same way since although midfield has been exceptionally narrow at times with wingers (and Cairney) on the "wrong side" cutting in and Chris Taylor drifting inside to central midfield on his rare excursions. .

Whilst the FA Cup run did set the pulse racing it is such a shame that my Championship highlights are confined to such a short extract from the one match when we truly did give it a right good go and pulverised the opposition from the start!!

[Stuart]

Wow. Now that's what I call history re-written. In italics no less.

Bravo, sir.

If only Lowe hadn't got injured those play-offs would have been a piece of cake.

[tomphil]

I watched on saturday and there was a vast open space between the edge of the d and the edge of the centre circle when we were attacking that had nobody in it. that's where our central midfield should have been driving forward. There were guys out wider. there was Rhodes up front with Gestede somewhere in the vicinity and there was this vast empty space where goals are created that was unoccupied by any of our players.It was like someone had put a forcefield round that bit of the pitch so Rovers players couldn't get into it.

It's been like that more often than not for the past two seasons. He sets up his team to contain first and foremost hence all the draws. Besides the manager the other common feature is Evans who seems unable to operate anywhere beyond the centre circle. Tunni made a difference but again Bowyer only started using him properly near the end of his loan. It'll likely be Lowe and Evans next season so I can't see it improving much

[joey_big_nose]

As far as the midfield goes whilst I think Williamson has had a decent season I think Evans has had an abysmal season with Marshall Cairney and Conway not far behind. That's where the majority of the problems lie, not with either of the two strikers.

Can't say I agree with you often Rev but you are spot on imo here. Most of the worst performers this season have been midfielders alongside Hanley and Duffy. A couple of points

1),We are one paced and lightweight in the middle of the park and struggle to break up play. To be honest for all his limitations Lowe being fit would be an advantage as he covers the ground and has more speed and power than any of the other central midfielders. Obviously I would like someone who also has a bit of technical ability if we can buy them...

2) Your point about strikers is true now - they are much better than our midfield currently - however come the summer I seriously doubt Gestede, Rhodes or King will be here. Then it will be our most serious problem and we will be desperately scrambling. A midfield overhaul is very unlikely IMO, even if we get a new manager, as we will be focussing on strikers. We need to do more with what we have.

[K-Hod]

If they were on the correct sides we might find both Gestede and Rhodes got a lot more chances though.

As far as the midfield goes whilst I think Williamson has had a decent season I think Evans has had an abysmal season with Marshall Cairney and Conway not far behind. That's where the majority of the problems lie, not with either of the two strikers.

I think Conway, Cairney and Marshall have looked good in patches, (Conway especially so), but abysmal might be a bit harsh!

Completely agree with the rest of the post about our midfield, I've never seen a slower and less mobile 'engine room' in my life.

[Rover_Shaun]

Completely agree with the rest of the post about our midfield, I've never seen a slower and less mobile 'engine room' in my life.

I don't know. John Millar and Nicky Reid were terrible

[LDRover]

The present trend towards midfield inertia, the seeming defiance of the participants to propel themselves beyond the halfway line is in stark contrast to the most exciting pulsating dynamic midfield display that I have witnessed this season that being the first 25 minutes of the 20th December match at home to Charlton.

For those 25 minutes the midfield diamond employed consisted of Lowe Evans Marshall and Tunnicliffe. The flexibility, movement of the players, the control of the ball and pattern of play, the skill. speed and accuracy of passing and the support for the front two, Rhodes and Gestede, was superior to anything else displayed this season even allowing for the notional lack of width and crosses into the box, that was/were to be supplied by overlapping fullbacks.

The unexpected system employed took Charlton by surprise and they couldn't cope until they were 2-0 down at which stage they brought on an additional midfielder who closed the spaces that had brought the success of the early part of the game.

Lowe was soon re-injured and out for the season and Tunnicliffe returned to Fulham. I feel sure that Bowyer would have refined and developed that midfield system with success if the personnel had remained available but it wasn't to be and the system has not been replicated quite in the same way since although midfield has been exceptionally narrow at times with wingers (and Cairney) on the "wrong side" cutting in and Chris Taylor drifting inside to central midfield on his rare excursions. .

Whilst the FA Cup run did set the pulse racing it is such a shame that my Championship highlights are confined to such a short extract from the one match when we truly did give it a right good go and pulverised the opposition from the start!!

Unfortunately, the facts on Lowe will tell you different.

Over the past 2 seasons in the league he has played 51 games and in those games we have scored 70 goals and conceded the same at an average of 1.37 per game. Without him in the side we have played 38 games, scored 59 goals at an average of 1.55 per game and conceded 47 at an average of 1.23 per game with a positive GD of 12.

Added to that the points per game we have gained is marginally more with Lowe out of the team rather than in it.

So, to sum up, he's not the answer, he's just another one of our plethora of bang average midfielders. In fact, the stats would say he's slightly more bang average than the others.

[tomphil]

I don't know. John Millar and Nicky Reid were terrible

Never thought much of Millar but you couldn't say Reidy wasn't mobile

[ABBEY]

Nicky Reid was tops ... No hairs n graces like the pampered players of now.

[K-Hod]

Unfortunately, the facts on Lowe will tell you different.

Over the past 2 seasons in the league he has played 51 games and in those games we have scored 70 goals and conceded the same at an average of 1.37 per game. Without him in the side we have played 38 games, scored 59 goals at an average of 1.55 per game and conceded 47 at an average of 1.23 per game with a positive GD of 8.

Added to that the points per game we have gained is marginally more with Lowe out of the team rather than in it.

So, to sum up, he's not the answer, he's just another one of our plethora of bang average midfielders. In fact, the stats would say he's slightly more bang average than the others.

Lowe's the same as all the others, but at least he covers some ground!!

[tomphil]

Indeed Reidy's a great guy and probably still fitter than some players half his age playing now.

[Reedy You're A Star]

Indeed Reidy's a great guy and probably still fitter than some players half his age playing now.

Aww thanks.. You're pretty great too!

[tomphil]

Aww thanks.. You're pretty great too!

[Mike E]

I think Lowe is fine. But that's it, just fine. I'd like to see him wander forward with the ball a bit more than he usually does but I guess O'Sullivan could be that player in his stead?

[Salgado Is Still A Hero]

Unfortunately, the facts on Lowe will tell you different.

Over the past 2 seasons in the league he has played 51 games and in those games we have scored 70 goals and conceded the same at an average of 1.37 per game. Without him in the side we have played 38 games, scored 59 goals at an average of 1.55 per game and conceded 47 at an average of 1.23 per game with a positive GD of 8.

Added to that the points per game we have gained is marginally more with Lowe out of the team rather than in it.

So, to sum up, he's not the answer, he's just another one of our plethora of bang average midfielders. In fact, the stats would say he's slightly more bang average than the others.

Real Madrid won 22 games in a row earlier in the season, then Modric got injured for a few months, which coincided with their season going off the boil, going from 4 points clear of Barca in La Liga to 4 points behind. Spanish journalists said this was because Modric wasn't playing, who made them tick.

Their stats this season, like the ones you mention above, are actually better when Modric isn't in the team.

Just watch the game, then decide who is better out of our centre-mids.

[LDRover]

Real Madrid won 22 games in a row earlier in the season, then Modric got injured for a few months, which coincided with their season going off the boil, going from 4 points clear of Barca in La Liga to 4 points behind. Spanish journalists said this was because Modric wasn't playing, who made them tick.

Their stats this season, like the ones you mention above, are actually better when Modric isn't in the team.

Just watch the game, then decide who is better out of our centre-mids.

I do watch the game and have given my opinion on Lowe many times. Good at one thing - running, and has very little fundamental talent that a decent midfielder needs. Poor at passing, cannot play on the half turn, can close down but rarely tackles, hides behind the opposition rather than getting in good positions to receive the ball, drops too deep when we're under pressure etc.

Others will say that is a subjective view and possibly prejudiced because I don't 'like' him. So, I give facts to back it up over a reasonable period of time (and I can think of no better stats than goal for and against and points gained) yet you come out with that. And to use Real Madrid as a relevant stat to BRFC when one galactico can be replaced with another and a poor run is one draw in 22 games is, frankly, quite laughable.

The post that I was responding to is yet another case of a missing player becoming a better player during their absence as seen with Evans, King and Kalinic before them and actually putting some detail into that theory.

[Salgado Is Still A Hero]

I do watch the game and have given my opinion on Lowe many times. Good at one thing - running, and has very little fundamental talent that a decent midfielder needs. Poor at passing, cannot play on the half turn, can close down but rarely tackles, hides behind the opposition rather than getting in good positions to receive the ball, drops too deep when we're under pressure etc.

Others will say that is a subjective view and possibly prejudiced because I don't 'like' him. So, I give facts to back it up over a reasonable period of time (and I can think of no better stats than goal for and against and points gained) yet you come out with that. And to use Real Madrid as a relevant stat to BRFC when one galactico can be replaced with another and a poor run is one draw in 22 games is, frankly, quite laughable.

The post that I was responding to is yet another case of a missing player becoming a better player during their absence as seen with Evans, King and Kalinic before them and actually putting some detail into that theory.

That's the important part, I personally find that more relevant than finding out we score on average 0.18 goals per game more when Lowe isn't playing. You say we concede less when he's in the side anyway, one could then argue that we're more defensively stable because of it.

But none of that really matters, my point was that people can see if we're more solid with him in the team or not, and therefore don't need stats.

I just used Modric as an example, you'll find more examples of teams having better records without key players in the team. It doesn't matter that Real Madrid was the team used. For what it's worth, they replaced him with inferior players anyway.

Of course your view is subjective, everyone's is. If you believe it's true then so be it, doesn't matter if people doubt your reasons for having it.

[LDRover]

We actually concede more with him in the team if you re-read the initial post.

[Blue blood]

All our central midfielders are one trick ponies; good at one thing poor at everything else; Cairney can pass but nothing else, Lowe covers a load of ground and harasses the opposition, Williamson can get stuck in, Evans can turn invisible. Problem is getting one or two of these into a formation with tactics that work. Given all of them play deep I can't see any of them being suitable in a 4-4-2 combination.

A few of them would look promising in a 4-2-3-1 formation, which would hide their limitations and play to their strengths. Which given we're likely to lose 3 of our strikers might be the best way to go. Otherwise we're looking to a long summer of finding 2+ strikers and at least one centre mid. And that's before anyone else leaves.