[Archived] Lancashire County 2016

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

There's no guarantee that Franchise FC would work though. Derby County, essentially what you're promoting, only get about 33,000 per week, and that's only when it's going well. Considering there's population of 1 million people in Derbyshire, that's a pretty poor return. Then you look at Franchise FC supposedly being more financially viable. Compare it again to Derby. They were in all sorts of difficulties not so long back.

Name me any club in Lancashire that would get 33k a week. I know none of the clubs have grounds big enough - but if they had - none would get crowds that big.

Either way Lancs Utd won't happen in any of our lifetimes. Gotta think you are talking 4 of the founders of the football league (5 if you include Bolton). Though the importance of that and individual club history will lessen over time - that won't be for a long time and even then will only happen if all the Lancashire clubs are struggling - why would Burnley be interested in such an idea st this moment in time ?

[scotchrover]

Name me any club in Lancashire that would get 33k a week. I know none of the clubs have grounds big enough - but if they had - none would get crowds that big.

Either way Lancs Utd won't happen in any of our lifetimes. Gotta think you are talking 4 of the founders of the football league (5 if you include Bolton). Though the importance of that and individual club history will lessen over time - that won't be for a long time and even then will only happen if all the Lancashire clubs are struggling - why would Burnley be interested in such an idea st this moment in time ?

Man Utd., City, Liverpool and Everton are all Lancashire clubs, that get over 33,000 regularly. However, I agree with everything you've said. When the league format changes to the European wide one which is being talked about, that's when it might be an option. Up until then, it's a dead duck.

[Hasta]

I was brought up on Saturday afternoon listening to my dad listening to radio Lancashire in the early 80s for Rovers away games. That nostalgic 'goal action' jingle, that has made a return to the station recently, brings back so many memories. From about 84, I was taken to many home games. At first I lurked around the front of the blackburn end playing football with stones and bottles. Now and again I would join the older kids on the railings behind the goal, almost playing a game of danger incase the ball smacked your hands.

Eventually attention turned to the pitch, hoping that the team in blue and white would score. From that I also become interested in the league tables and other football around the country. You get drawn in the excitement of big games with larger, more atmospheric crowds. Certain games stick in the memory - Goodison away in the FA cup, Man U at home in the FA cup whilst the rest of those seasons are a blur. The Chelsea play off games were the real turning point. Maybe I'm an early glory hunter, but the prospect of getting promotion to the top flight and playing the teams that you read about in the papers really got me hooked. Alas it was not to be, but glorious failure by a team of players who became heroes was to follow for next few years. Palace broke my heart for an entire summer.

I was hooked fully by 1990/91, the season before Jack and Kenny, when Steve Livingtone and Frank Stapleton led the line for the second half of the season to try and combat the relegation threat to the third tier. I spent every home game at ewood and every away game either listening to the radio or trying to find out the current score. I think this was even pre-teletext in our house!

This has continued ever since. Never a game passed where, even when I'm not at home, I'm not keeping more than one eye on the score. You can pick random away games since 1991 and there is a good chance I can tell you where I was when the game was played. Most people will have been on days out, weddings holidays etc.,, where they have scrambled around to find a latest score or result.

Nowadays frustration has set in more than any time in that era. The situation, whilst putting us on a playing field we have been at before, is so frustrating due to self infliction, a lack of acknowledgment by those in power, and other human accessories to the collapse seemingly escaping richer and scott free. I have said recently that I have not attended certain home games because I have other things to do and they are meaningless. I have also joked about a lack of interest in away games. This is true. However in all those cases, that blue and white heart, that has beat for all those years, still makes me check for the score during the game and how we have played. I doubt that will ever ever change whilst Blackburn Rovers exists at Ewood Park.

You can close the club and create Lancashire United or whatever at Bamber Bridge and I, and I suspect many others, WOULD NOT GIVE A FLYING FLOCK about them. Unlike others, I accept that ,bar a miracle, Venkys need to stay to keep us competitive in the Football League. However I would genuinely prefer to watch Rovers rotting in the Conference North at Ewood infront of 1500 fans than change that allegiance and passion mentioned above to a newly formed abomination of a franchise.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Me and Gordon are miles apart? I for one would never countenance the demise of our magnificent club in any way shape or form. Rovers irrespective of the dark lords will live forever!

[Rover_Shaun]

the goal action jingle isn't the same. Then again there's no Jack holden

[Hasta]

Not exactly the same no but i thought it vanished completely for a few years.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Man Utd., City, Liverpool and Everton are all Lancashire clubs, that get over 33,000 regularly. However, I agree with everything you've said. When the league format changes to the European wide one which is being talked about, that's when it might be an option. Up until then, it's a dead duck.

According to the boundaries - none of those clubs are in lancashire.

[Rover_Shaun]

Neither is Ewood

[scotchrover]

According to the boundaries - none of those clubs are in lancashire.

Neither is Ewood or Bloomfield Road if you consider it like that. Most folk still refer to the pre-74 boundaries though.

[thenodrog]

But slate people for wanting venkys gone

So when venkys go.

My chosen option is a vibrant new set up formed by local clubs all currently financially struggling to unite into one single representative club, to be totally self financing, beholding to no rich benefactors and with approx 25% of the current operating costs able to compete at the top level.

Your option is to stand in the cold and wet, ankle deep in mud down Pleasi fields watching park footballers in blue and white halves.

how you can come on the Blackburn Rovers supporters web site and try to promote the end of Blackburn Rovers is beyond believe

Where better or more relevent to do it?

Anyway I think BRFC is as close to the end as it has been in the past 140 years, don't you? All I'm suggesting is an alternative. Should the club cease trading what would be your options yoda? Mighty easy to criticise and snipe but much more difficult to come up with alternatives ..... unless of course you want to put on your wellies and sou' wester and stand next to Abbey.

[Amo]

It's a complete non-starter, Gordon. We know it, you know it, and so does everyone else. Have you tried gauging public opinion on rival club sites? If they all end up telling you the same thing, maybe you should listen to them?

[thenodrog]

So you're saying you'd throw away all this:

-all our FA Cup wins

-all our league titles

-all our Europa and Champions League appearances

-our record 3 FA Cup wins in a row

-our great derby with those 6 fingered lot up the road to become like Bolton

-our 11th most successful club status of all time, in English football

-our ability to still make Burnley, Bolton, Preston & Leeds etc., all envious about our trophy cabinet, even after the past few years

-our ability to get 1/5 of Blackburn's population, to attend a football match, which Norwich, Leeds & Wolves etc. could only dream of

-our fantastic training facilities which are still world-class

-our fairy tale with story with Jack

-our 'small town in Europe' status, that will one day come back, whilst hammering big city teams like City and United

-our famous blue & white shirts

-every wonder goal scored by Garner & Shearer

-every appearance by Bob Crompton & Derek Fazackerley

You'd throw all that away, just to make something that's slightly more economically viable?

And if the Bank of India should foreclose and flog off everything that they can, What then? Do you honestly believe that they could give a flying one for our history? Well do you?

Read the thread. I've already said that history cannot be altered. I do feel that we really should be considering and discussing alternatives.

[thenodrog]

Name me any club in Lancashire that would get 33k a week. I know none of the clubs have grounds big enough - but if they had - none would get crowds that big.

Either way Lancs Utd won't happen in any of our lifetimes. Gotta think you are talking 4 of the founders of the football league (5 if you include Bolton). Though the importance of that and individual club history will lessen over time - that won't be for a long time and even then will only happen if all the Lancashire clubs are struggling - why would Burnley be interested in such an idea st this moment in time ?

Hey! Just had a great thought when you mentioned Founder Members! Not Lancashire County. How about FM United 2015? The footballing authorities have been neither kind, respectul or beneficial for the original Founder Members. This'd stick it to em and the history would become eternal.

[thenodrog]

I was brought up on Saturday afternoon listening to my dad listening to radio Lancashire in the early 80s for Rovers away games. That nostalgic 'goal action' jingle, that has made a return to the station recently, brings back so many memories. From about 84, I was taken to many home games. At first I lurked around the front of the blackburn end playing football with stones and bottles. Now and again I would join the older kids on the railings behind the goal, almost playing a game of danger incase the ball smacked your hands.

Eventually attention turned to the pitch, hoping that the team in blue and white would score. From that I also become interested in the league tables and other football around the country. You get drawn in the excitement of big games with larger, more atmospheric crowds. Certain games stick in the memory - Goodison away in the FA cup, Man U at home in the FA cup whilst the rest of those seasons are a blur. The Chelsea play off games were the real turning point. Maybe I'm an early glory hunter, but the prospect of getting promotion to the top flight and playing the teams that you read about in the papers really got me hooked. Alas it was not to be, but glorious failure by a team of players who became heroes was to follow for next few years. Palace broke my heart for an entire summer.

I was hooked fully by 1990/91, the season before Jack and Kenny, when Steve Livingtone and Frank Stapleton led the line for the second half of the season to try and combat the relegation threat to the third tier. I spent every home game at ewood and every away game either listening to the radio or trying to find out the current score. I think this was even pre-teletext in our house!

This has continued ever since. Never a game passed where, even when I'm not at home, I'm not keeping more than one eye on the score. You can pick random away games since 1991 and there is a good chance I can tell you where I was when the game was played. Most people will have been on days out, weddings holidays etc.,, where they have scrambled around to find a latest score or result.

Nowadays frustration has set in more than any time in that era. The situation, whilst putting us on a playing field we have been at before, is so frustrating due to self infliction, a lack of acknowledgment by those in power, and other human accessories to the collapse seemingly escaping richer and scott free. I have said recently that I have not attended certain home games because I have other things to do and they are meaningless. I have also joked about a lack of interest in away games. This is true. However in all those cases, that blue and white heart, that has beat for all those years, still makes me check for the score during the game and how we have played. I doubt that will ever ever change whilst Blackburn Rovers exists at Ewood Park.

You can close the club and create Lancashire United or whatever at Bamber Bridge and I, and I suspect many others, WOULD NOT GIVE A FLYING FLOCK about them. Unlike others, I accept that ,bar a miracle, Venkys need to stay to keep us competitive in the Football League. However I would genuinely prefer to watch Rovers rotting in the Conference North at Ewood infront of 1500 fans than change that allegiance and passion mentioned above to a newly formed abomination of a franchise.

I'm sure I can hear the Hovis ad music again. So I'll revised my plans.... we only need the new stadium to hold 39999 now.

Sorry Hasta, I couldn't help but take the mickey a little after all that. So thats the looking back done with, now look forward and tell me how we are going to get out of this mess and then how we are going to provide top line football for the people of this area?

It's a complete non-starter, Gordon. We know it, you know it, and so does everyone else. Have you tried gauging public opinion on rival club sites? If they all end up telling you the same thing, maybe you should listen to them?

No but thats quite a good point.

[thenodrog]

The most successful town team ever and the 11th most successful club in Britain...

Gordon the golfer would throw all that away..

....for the Sinclair C5 of football ideas

SHHH Like Basil Fawlty once said "don't mention the golf"

Oh tee hee! Thanks for those valid and well thought out contributions. The Beano is missing three great script writers by not signing you lot up isn't it? If you have nothing of value to contribute then go and discuss whether geese are harder than swans or how many snakes you can get on a plane or maybe whose the best quarter back in that terminally boring NFL. Better still why don't you two pop round and see if you can help Abbey beat that Chorley lad's record for shoving eggs up his arse. I've got some rather large goose eggs that you can use.

Meanwhile I'll not hold my breath whilst waiting for a business plan or any suggestions to solve our current and impending plight from you three.

[Bucksrover]

Blackpool relegated with supporter unrest.

Wigan virtually likewise.

Burnley ever closer to relegation and the loss of key players and manager.

PNE within a whisker of promotion but only 9k bothered to turn out tonight.

BRFC sinking beneath a hate campaign being waged by it's own so called supporters. Please don't deny this as it's obvious reading just about every thread that sheer hatred for the club has replaced previous support. The reasons no longer matter, the ratchet is turning and I cannot see a way back for so many embittered fans people. The venkymob are obviously the current target and probably rightly so lets not kid ourselves the cancer had started long before they trapped up as illustrated with the growing hatred for the club and in particular The Walker Trust (is it any wonder they got out??? I expect the venkymob to follow suit and then who tf with a modicum of sense would be daft enough to step up to the ewood plate to be the next hate figure?) and illustrated perfectly by the anti-Allardyce hatred which was spreading like a bush fire before he was unwisely and rashly disposed of.

Effectively in a county of 1.5 million there would currently only be about 40k even bothered one way or the other and any success would soon seduce them. Thats just 2-3% of the population that might possibly regret losing their lame duck club!

I've pushed the merger option for years (to much criticism) as the only way forward for skint, small town clubs with a skint depressed support base and with no viable future in the modern world, but I've never seen such a lurch toward it as I am seeing now! FFP appears to be the final nail in the coffin as now there is not even any hope that an Uncle Jack might trap up again.

Seems to me that the Premier League gravy train has infiltrated the subconcious of very many and filled heads with unrealistic ambition so the logical option is to cut the various cords and form one financially viable and hopefully vibrant replacement in keeping with the modern world of football. So thats five prime town centre sites to sell, at least 4 training grounds (hopefully attracting planning) to fund one super stadium within a 15 min car drive of virtually all supporters, one training ground, one medical/physio facility, one squad of players. In the current climate of discontent I simply cannot see a downside.

The time is right but who has the might?

I completely agree.

FFP will strangle the ambition out of every small town club. You can't grow like we did anymore - Jack had a vision, invested heavily and it inspired attendance from fans. FFP means you can't do that - it protects the big clubs from the likes of Blackburn ever challenging them again.

The radio today is all United Chelsea - I really think that if United, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham could just play each other every week the media, the FA and premier league would be delighted.

I would love it if Rovers could stand strong on its own. But a few vultures knocked us off our feet and FFP means things are likely to get worse rather than better. What you are suggesting is not a joyous solution, but it may be the only way.

I have never had as little hope for a bright Rovers future as I do now. Very sad.

[thenodrog]

Why can so few understand it bucks? No I'm wrong why do so many refuse to face up to the situation as it is and instead find temporary comfort by referring back to the past? The past is gone.

[Stuart]

So when venkys go.

My chosen option is a vibrant new set up formed by local clubs all currently financially struggling to unite into one single representative club, to be totally self financing, beholding to no rich benefactors and with approx 25% of the current operating costs able to compete at the top level.

Your option is to stand in the cold and wet, ankle deep in mud down Pleasi fields watching park footballers in blue and white halves.

I can kind of see both sides of that debate.

On the one hand a Lancashire club (in principle) seems a sound idea. However, you need to consider the needs of the fans. For the purpose of discussion, let's split the fans into three groups:

The hardcore (approx 4-5000)

They will be at Rovers even if we are ground sharing. For this reason it's unlikely that we would ever play at Pleasington. Our support alone should see us quickly competing with the likes of Chorley for players and promotions.

The "abandoneers" (approx 10,000)

These are those people who have deserted Ewood because of relegation. Many of these were not even Rovers fans but came because of cheap season tickets and PL opposition. These are the people that a Lancs team would be looking to recruit (not a great start from a loyalty perspective). The problem (amongst problems) would be which division this team would play in. It certainly isn't going to get much attention in League Two. So let's say that Rovers, Burnley, Preston and Blackpool all stuck their hands in the air for it. Would the Football League allow them to play in the Championship? Not beyond the realms of possibility. It would be a very big shake up (unprecedented?) that would see the likes of Barnet, Bristol Rovers, Grimsby, Cheltenham and Tranmere in with a chance to take those three vacant FL shares. Championship football may be enough to secure half of those fans plus some new fans who want a fresh team to support and get in at the ground floor. So 5000-6000, say.

The swing voters (everyone else)

This is an interesting foul and I suspect would represent a good few on this messageboard. Loyalty to Rovers "brand" and the town/roots but without much confidence in the future of the club. Not many would walk away whilst Rovers was still a league club but not many would be shaking buckets outside Ewood when it is on the brink, nor are they likely to go to watch Dog-and-Duck Rovers. This group would need a lot of convincing. Perhaps a quarter might go to Lancs (being optimistic) if that was the only option - so a couple of thousand more.

So let's say that, glass half full, 8,000 fans would be up for watching Lancs County in the Championship and 5,000 watching Blackburn Rovers 2018 at AFC Darwen in the Evo-Stick North second division. The rest of the potential 20,000 Rovers fans will be watching to see what happens next but - if the ground was in Bamber Bridge - I think LCFC might be their preferred destination. Apart from the name, the difference is about as much as it is between the Walker Trust Rovers and Venkys Rovers - such is how much Venkys have "changed" the club (being polite) - so I'm not sure the whole "it wouldn't be a team I can relate to" argument goes.

At this stage then, we have effectively two Rovers clubs - all be it one has a new identity. But those still following me will note that, for this to happen, PNE and two BCFs are no more. I expect that Burnley will have a similar fan split to us (with fewer numbers) due to their PL status and the plastics who are brought in by it. So add another 4,000 to the LCFC attendance (now at 12,000).

PNE is think would be the easiest sell so let's chuck in 5,000 of them, and Blackpool bring up the rear with another 2,000 (we are playing in Bamber Bridge remember).

So we are now at a massive 19,000 (at best) figure, looking to grow that over the next couple of generations. In reality those numbers all seem quite high. So by the time we are done, we aren't far off the current attendance at Ewood, which although wouldn't benefit from a fresh start, doesn't require massive upheaval either. So the problem returns to the debt that is hanging around our neck and our inability to grow our fan base. Venkys are responsible for the former and Bowyer must take some responsibility for the latter, such is the lack of entertainment, feel-good and chances of success that typify his tenure.

Lancs County isn't the answer to our current problems, it's a potential option for future problems - one that is unlikely to affect our neighbours for some time.

So it's as you were... for now at least.

[Rover_Shaun]

Nodody has touched on the fact that you'd need all the clubs to be ready and willing to enter this dogs breakfast of an idea at the same time. There is more chance of Gordon making an ironic post about non-constructive contribution with the longest non-constructive contriburary post so far. And we all know he's no hypocrite.

The logistics, let alone the paucity of the premise, makes this the highest pie ever launched into the sky.

Now Abbey, where are those eggs?

[broadsword]

The formation of a merged club is proposed because the future of Blackburn rovers is bleak.

However, as part of a merged entity, the club would cease to exist.

In other words, you seek to solve our problems by shutting the club down permanently. It's like having a sex change, good luck getting your bits back if you don't like your new identity.

The whole idea is an absolute non starter. The club does indeed have bleak times ahead and may even go to the wall. But better to fail with something you believe in than to destroy it for something you don't.

[ABBEY]

So when venkys go.

My chosen option is a vibrant new set up formed by local clubs all currently financially struggling to unite into one single representative club, to be totally self financing, beholding to no rich benefactors and with approx 25% of the current operating costs able to compete at the top level.

Your option is to stand in the cold and wet, ankle deep in mud down Pleasi fields watching park footballers in blue and white halves.

Where better or more relevent to do it?

Anyway I think BRFC is as close to the end as it has been in the past 140 years, don't you? All I'm suggesting is an alternative. Should the club cease trading what would be your options yoda? Mighty easy to criticise and snipe but much more difficult to come up with alternatives ..... unless of course you want to put on your wellies and sou' wester and stand next to Abbey.

Rather stand in the mud next to rovers fans than sit next to Burnley or Preston fans . There would be trouble at every game home and away .. Mentioned this thread to a nobber yesterday and he said is the thread starter s full shilling .. Laughed big time pal ha

[yoda]

Why can so few understand it bucks? No I'm wrong why do so many refuse to face up to the situation as it is and instead find temporary comfort by referring back to the past? The past is gone.

The past was also gone in

1884, 1885, 1886, 1890, 1891, 1928, 1882, 1960, 1987, 2002, 1882, 1960, 1974-75, 1979-80, 1938-39, 1957-58, 1991-92, 1911-12,

1913-14, 2000-01, 1993-94, 1994-95, (this is just the 1st team)

Blackburn Rovers are still here, the Roa's are just passing

WE ARE THE ROVERS

And Gordon, there are people about who would take up the mantle of saving the club

[thenodrog]

It'd be like performing a triple heart bypass on a 95 year old. There'd still be no viable future to look forward to.

[Hasta]

I'm sure I can hear the Hovis ad music again. So I'll revised my plans.... we only need the new stadium to hold 39999 now.

Sorry Hasta, I couldn't help but take the mickey a little after all that. So thats the looking back done with, now look forward and tell me how we are going to get out of this mess and then how we are going to provide top line football for the people of this area?

If you gauged peoples reactions on here and from fans of other north west clubs, I suspect it would need to hold a lot less than 39,999 !!!

Appointing a manager when we still had the parachute payments was the best way out of this mess but you are right, what is done is done.

Your plan may be the only way that people in Lancashire can see a local team competing permanently at the 'top line'. However you are missing the point that all fans bar the similarly deluded would rather watch their team in the middle or bottom line than a team they have no affection for turning out against Liverpool or Man United.

If I had to move to, say, Southampton, I wouldn't suddenly start watching them at St Marys because it's top flight football. I wouldn't suddenly start following their results every minute whilst out on a Tuesday evening.

The only people that would do this for this new Lancashire club surely are the genuine "glory hunters' who have "only come to see United".

Going forward, if Venkys are not going to sustain any positive funding, we will need to cut our cloth accordingly, drastically reduce expenses and hope to get a genius, unproven, cheap manager in who can work wonders and dig out gems. Personally I think, for the money they have lost on BRFC, they might as well fund us at current levels for one more season and get Batman in as the manager instead of The Joker we currently have.

[Amo]

It'd be like performing a triple heart bypass on a 95 year old. There'd still be no viable future to look forward to.

Why don't you do a Vinjay and just support Man. City?

Seriously. If glory is all you're after, what's the difference between supporting Man. City and supporting some Frankenstein Lanky Utd? Neither of them are Rovers.