[Archived] Club PR is impying that 9th place is an achievement? Progression or Regression. Your thoughts?

[Rover_Shaun]

Interestingly nobody seemed to complain when we were mid-table Premier League and had nothing to play for at the end of the season once we had achieved survival, yet can't cope with it when we're in the Championship.

How can anybody not see the gargantuanly humongous difference in those to scenarios? The mind truly truly truly boggles

Rovers crowds by contrast are expected to drop significantly from the current 13,000 levels. Several thousand probably won't renew ahead of another Championship season with Bowyer in charge playing his mind numbing crab/hoofball

Edited to reflect the comments I have read

[Amo]

They seem to have absolutely zero concept of judging people by results or performance

Arguable. They were pretty cut-throat with Berg & Appleton. Although that happened amidst a political tug-of-war behind the scenes and as I recall neither of them flew out to Pune to ingratiate themselves to the owners.

[DE.]

The message I am picking up from several people on here is that the aim for this season was promotion and that this squad is capable of achieving that. Only because of Bowyer's failings have we missed out.

Now you're saying that had we finished 3rd and missed out on promotion that would be fine because we finished higher than last season.

I'm struggling to grasp what the criteria is for Bowyer to be judged here. Is it a case of promotion or he's failed? Or was merely an improvement on last seasons 8th place required for a worthwhile season?

So if we had finished this season 7th on 71 points would that be acceptable and sufficient to keep Bowyer? That would be progress/an improvement.

Why are you assuming everybody must have the same opinion? Perhaps people actually have different opinions on what constitutes success?

The general impression I get from people posting on here is that they are unhappy because we are worse than last season - simple as that. The team has regressed despite Bowyer being allowed to keep his best players. We're going to have a weaker squad next season, therefore without a change in management it's logical to assume we will continue to drop with Bowyer in charge.

You're placing too much emphasis on playoff/promotion targets within the fanbase - for the vast majority of people, a genuine show of improvement season-upon-season would be more than satisfactory. As it stands we're seeing the opposite, with worse very likely to come.

[ABBEY]

'That's the only reason people 'can't cope' as you put it. Nonsense, we can't put up with our club being run into the ground, losing £2Million a month and having all this debt levied against the club we love.'

And what do you as a supporter propose to do about that? GET THEM OUT OF MY CLUB,WHATEVER MEANS IT TAKES....(ARE YOU HAPPY AT THE SITUATION THE SLUMDOGS HAVE CREATED?)

How is not buying tickets going to resolve that problem? DO YOU NOT REMEMBER WHEN THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT DROP IN FANS AND THE SLUMDOGS LAUNCHED STUFF TO GET FANS BACK...LESS FANS EQUALS VENKYS LOSING MORE MONEY

We can't sort out the debt or cut the losses.....SO DO NOWT AND LET THE DEBT RISE TO THE TERMINAL POINT ?

All we can do is keep supporting the club instead of just walking away...KEEP SUPPORTING THE PILLAGING AND DEATH KNOLLS.

[gumboots]

I don't care whether we've anything to play for or not. Lots of teams don't have. What I care about is the inept, unmotivated boring, turgid rubbish I've watched week in week out for much of the season. Find a way to improve on that and I won't mind where we end up, although from a financial point of view we need promotion, but that's another issue

[Parsonblue]

Thing is parson the venky have run aground up @#/? @#/? creek and people say they have learned . Things are not as rosy as some of you believe .

Financially it's not rosy Abbey, nobody would attempt to say otherwise. The transfer embargo is going to continue to limit progress as it would appear it's likely to be in place for another twelve months. However, I think there have been positives this season. After Bowyer's trip to India in November there have been positive changes at the Academy and an upturn in results and performances since the changes in personnel were introduced just before Christmas. The Under-21's have seen more and more young players being blooded and one would hope that one or two will come through. At first team level, I must admit that I thought we would be on closer to the sixth spot than we are but I've never believed that the players were good enough for top two or even third or fourth - the early season game at Norwich showed that. Since Christmas injuries have played a part and there has become something of a gulf between home and away performances with the team looking better on their travels than at Ewood. I have no idea what the owners have learnt over the past two years under Bowyer - and nor does anyone else - but they seem have backed him to make changes throughout the club.

As for the future, I would agree that it is going to be a very tough road ahead. FFP is now something of a Catch-22 for the club. Retain Gestede and Rhodes and the embargo will stay, sell them and the embargo could be lifted in twelve months but in the meantime you need to find replacements either on loan or the free transfer market, something that will be impossible to do. Unless there is a another Jack Walker waiting in wings, I've still to be convinced what a viable alternative is to the present. Whilst I know some would like to start again, I want to keep Ewood, Brockhall and everything else that has been built up since 1875.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12908433.Paul_Wheelock_column____300k_for_Rudy_Gestede_and_Craig_Conway_was_daylight_robbery/

LT promoting Bowyer's so called ability to get players on the cheap and make them worth more. This article is clearly designed to keep Bowyer in a job, 'Oh look Madame Desai Gary is increasing player value despite the limitations of a transfer embargo, isn't he doing such a great job!'.

A clued up owner would smell this as BS.

A clued up owner would realise that Conway and Gestede were an absolute bargain at what Bowyer picked them up for.

[tomphil]

The statement about half the teams in this league have aspirations of the play offs at the beginning of the season is bang on. It also why half the teams have a go at each other and more often than not go out and be brave and work hard to WIN games. Same can't be said about us so that's a big reason why Bowyer, his tactics and the general attitude around Rovers boils peoples @#/?.

It ain't like the Prem where drawing half your games can be seen as a success in the quest for forty odd points against world class sides to stay on the gravy train.

[Rover_Shaun]

Parson. Is 9th/10th an achievement though?

[Kamy100]

There certainly seems to be an effort being made by someone within the club to brief local and some national journos on Rovers finishing in top 10 as being some sort of achievement.

In my book this season has to be termed as a failure. Prior to the season it was Gary’s stated aim to finish top 6 this season, we have not come close to doing that, with the players we have at our disposal we should at the very least have had a serious push to get into the top 6 but for a brief time at the start of December we have never really threatened the top 6, we just have not been consistent enough.

The players have to of course take some blame, too many times when it really mattered they have not performed, but the vast majority of the blame has to go to the manager. He was able to keep all of his “star” players, he failed to utilise the loan market properly both in the Summer and also January transfer window which has contributed to a unbalanced squad, the tactics at times this season have left me baffled, the negative approach to home games has meant that we lost games that we should have been winning. Instead of progressing from the excellent end to last season we have regressed.

I have heard so many times this year the Championship has been tougher this season, I disagree, in my opinion it has been poorer. There has been no outstanding side, all the teams have been average and therefore have lost to each other, that is why we are seeing a higher points total needed for 6^th spot than previous season rather than some huge jump in quality. The fact remains that despite being allowed to keep all of the better players we will end up with a worse points total than last year.

So what happens now? In my opinion nothing. There will be a meeting in Pune and the most likely outcome will be no changes, just carry on as you are. The clubs executive will not challenge the owners, Venky’s remain clueless the only real change is that they do not talk publically any longer. We will be left with a manager who has shown some shortcomings in the basic arts of being a good manager and over the last 2 years shown that he does not learn from his mistakes. We will be almost forced to sell our better players this summer so as to balance the books.

Gary in my opinion will remain as manager. The reason Mrs D would be loathed to sack Gary is because she likes him and unlike all of the other manager's that she has employed, Gary will be the first one to bring in some money, all the others have ended up costing Venky's money. Just the Rudy sale alone will see a huge profit on the investment made, this is the kind of model that will appeal to Mrs D.

We have blown our last realistic chance of getting promotion, next season we will have to work with a much smaller wage budget, so when the likes of Rhodes and Rudy are sold we will have to bring in cheaper alternatives and if the sanctions are not lifted then we will have to rely on loanees. The season after when the parachute payments stop, our budgets will be even smaller, with dwindling season ticket sales and very poor commercial income things will become even harder. Clubs such as Burnley and Crystal Palace have shown in recent years that it is possible to get up on very small budgets, but to do that you need an astute manager who can get the maximum out of the players. The only other hope that we have is that some of the fantastic 16 and 17 year olds that did so well in the Premier League Cup can continue to develop and are able to make the jump into the first team.

[tomphil]

I understand that, but they will get those crowds in any Championship season, regardless of their hopes and expectations.

Rovers crowds by contrast are expected to drop significantly from the current 13,000 levels. Several thousand probably won't renew ahead of another Championship season.

Come on pal not long ago in another debate you were comparing us to Leeds when on about crowds. A lot of your posts just come across as a barbed between the lines dig at the supporters and a bit of blame shifting. Rovers crowds are what they are and go back through history there is a similar trend and that'll never change for a town club. The problem is the malaise, unrest, hatred and general mistrust that engulfs our fanbase is quite unique to Rovers.

Sadly for them as you've pointed out the likes of Leeds/Derby/Forest have had dodgy ownership for decades now but the fact they are from areas they are means the crowds hold up better. City clubs have always coped better than town clubs in times of adversity. Stop the daft comparisons in numbers because % wise things are almost identical for us and them.

[donnermeat]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/12908433.Paul_Wheelock_column____300k_for_Rudy_Gestede_and_Craig_Conway_was_daylight_robbery/

LT promoting Bowyer's so called ability to get players on the cheap and make them worth more. This article is clearly designed to keep Bowyer in a job, 'Oh look Madame Desai Gary is increasing player value despite the limitations of a transfer embargo, isn't he doing such a great job!'.

A clued up owner would smell this as BS.

A clued up owner wouldn't even read it!

[adsfortheblues]

A clued up owner wouldn't even read it!

Which players are these then? Apart from Rudy, there isnt any. Suppose people will think of Cairney, Conway and Marshall?

Cairney isn't worth much more, for me he's been poor and is very overrated. Conway you won't get much for when he's nearly 30 and Marshall, you'd be lucky to get a lot more than the £1.5 million we paid for him, maybe you could get £3mill, however he's far too inconsistent.

[den]

We have blown our last realistic chance of getting promotion, next season we will have to work with a much smaller wage budget, so when the likes of Rhodes and Rudy are sold we will have to bring in cheaper alternatives and if the sanctions are not lifted then we will have to rely on loanees. The season after when the parachute payments stop, our budgets will be even smaller, with dwindling season ticket sales and very poor commercial income things will become even harder.

Thought the parachute payments stopped after this season Kamy?

Anyway, yes we're up against it. Unfortunately this position has been coming for the last four years. Entirely predictable, especially to those fans old enough to have seen it before. None of the four managers Venkys have used should have been given the gig. Bowyer was the last chance and they blew that one as well. I don't have any answers to this situation - and I'm sure Venkys don't either. For certain sticking with Bowyer is not going to help anything.

[Blue blood]

Rovers

Forest

Leeds

Birmingham

Bolton

Reading

Charlton

Sheffield Wednesday

Brighton

Huddersfield

Cardiff

Fulham

We're not alone in having 'nothing' to play for in the last 6-7 games.

Interestingly nobody seemed to complain when we were mid-table Premier League and had nothing to play for at the end of the season once we had achieved survival, yet can't cope with it when we're in the Championship.

Well 3 things about this:

1) We need promotion more than all those other teams - their survival isn't quite so linked to the massive cash injection of promotion. K Hod puts it better, which I've added as a quote.

Are you on the wind up re the bits in bold??

Finances dictate promotion is our best way out of the mess we're in, hence the impatience. That's the only reason people 'can't cope' as you put it. Nonsense, we can't put up with our club being run into the ground, losing £2Million a month and having all this debt levied against the club we love.

Nothing to do with being in the top flight or not.

2) Of all the teams listed we've got a darn sight better squad than them. Player against player I reckon of a first 11 (whatever ours is) you'd end up choosing ours around 8/9 of ours over any of those other teams. So in that respect us having nothing to play for given our superior talent is pretty embarrassing. If we don't see ourselves as (currently) superior to these teams, then we might as well pack up and go home now.

3) Premier League is a bit different isn't it? Hate the un-competitiveness of it but truth be told mid table would be a decent achievement for a team like us in the prem. problem is we're talking about this in the championship...

[majorstyre]

this season is a major fail..

we have gone backwards....period....

less points than last season, lower position than last season

the facts do not lie

whatever happened to the great push for promotion, that this season was sold on???...that was all but over by february..

And that is not even starting on a manager who seemingly cannot get the best out of his players, does not know who he wants to pick week by week, and what tactics he wants to play game by game...

no happy clapping from me......

[Kamy100]

Thought the parachute payments stopped after this season Kamy?

Anyway, yes we're up against it. Unfortunately this position has been coming for the last four years. Entirely predictable, especially to those fans old enough to have seen it before. None of the four managers Venkys have used should have been given the gig. Bowyer was the last chance and they blew that one as well. I don't have any answers to this situation - and I'm sure Venkys don't either. For certain sticking with Bowyer is not going to help anything.

They parachute payments are over 4 seasons, we get our final installment of £8 million (I think) at the start of next season.

[majorstyre]

They parachute payments are over 4 seasons, we get our final installment of £8 million (I think) at the start of next season.

have we not already spent/used that last payment??...or is that a rumour i dreamt of??

[Andyblue2]

Financially it's not rosy Abbey, nobody would attempt to say otherwise. The transfer embargo is going to continue to limit progress as it would appear it's likely to be in place for another twelve months. However, I think there have been positives this season. After Bowyer's trip to India in November there have been positive changes at the Academy and an upturn in results and performances since the changes in personnel were introduced just before Christmas. The Under-21's have seen more and more young players being blooded and one would hope that one or two will come through. At first team level, I must admit that I thought we would be on closer to the sixth spot than we are but I've never believed that the players were good enough for top two or even third or fourth - the early season game at Norwich showed that. Since Christmas injuries have played a part and there has become something of a gulf between home and away performances with the team looking better on their travels than at Ewood. I have no idea what the owners have learnt over the past two years under Bowyer - and nor does anyone else - but they seem have backed him to make changes throughout the club.

As for the future, I would agree that it is going to be a very tough road ahead. FFP is now something of a Catch-22 for the club. Retain Gestede and Rhodes and the embargo will stay, sell them and the embargo could be lifted in twelve months but in the meantime you need to find replacements either on loan or the free transfer market, something that will be impossible to do. Unless there is a another Jack Walker waiting in wings, I've still to be convinced what a viable alternative is to the present. Whilst I know some would like to start again, I want to keep Ewood, Brockhall and everything else that has been built up since 1875.

A clued up owner would realise that Conway and Gestede were an absolute bargain at what Bowyer picked them up for.

All this typing Parson and not one criticism of Bowyer. You really are a piece of work mate. Bowyer PR Propaganda Machine.

In fact, you manage to kiss his butt at the end there.

[imy9]

All this typing Parson and not one criticism of Bowyer. You really are a piece of work mate. Bowyer PR Propaganda Machine.

In fact, you manage to kiss his butt at the end there.

Parsons opinion is as valid as yours. The insulting personal nature of posts is lowering the tone of the MB.

Bowyer has bought well and players can be sold for a profit. There is no doubt about that. His tactics and lack of a game plan are amongst his many faults.

[Parsonblue]

All this typing Parson and not one criticism of Bowyer. You really are a piece of work mate. Bowyer PR Propaganda Machine.

In fact, you manage to kiss his butt at the end there.

Sorry you can't handle debate and another viewpoint Andy.

[yoda]

I think the fact that we will probably finish the season as a "football club", under current circumstances is an achievement in itself.

Lest hope the penny, or rupee drops in Pune in the close season and next season we can shake off all this stability malarky and have a right good do.

[Kamy100]

All this typing Parson and not one criticism of Bowyer. You really are a piece of work mate. Bowyer PR Propaganda Machine.

In fact, you manage to kiss his butt at the end there.

Andy you need to respect Parson's view, he has put forward a detailed argument for why he feels that this season is acceptable. Doesn't matter if you agree or not, it insulting to simply dismiss them as "Bowyer PR Propaganda Machine".

[Andyblue2]

But he refuses to criticise bowyer in any way which makes the rest of his views pointless

[JBiz]

But he refuses to criticise bowyer in any way which makes the rest of his views pointless

So because he refuses to just go with your opinion his are pointless?

Well done, you managed to top the level of stupidity that you brought onto yourself with the "I'm better than a professional footballer" comment.

[Andyblue2]

To absolve bowyer of any blame is just as potty