[Archived] Season 2015/16 Discussion

[Al]

In terms of cost that wouldn't be worth it but maybe they could close the JW upper and leave it as it is. Looking out from the BBE there's usually less scattered about up there than in the Riverside

Great idea to lose another few thousand supporters. The best supporters don't all occupy the BBE.

[rovers11]

Difficult one to call. On paper, we had a good team last season but we flopped. We'll have a weaker side on paper this year but that doesn't mean we'll be worse in reality.

Gestede will go but I don't expect any others unless huge bids are made. Bowyer liked Cairney but wasn't desperate to keep him imo. Looking at the key areas:

Gk: Raya will establish himself as number 1 as the season progresses. Steele is decent anyway, as is Eastwood. Neither are as talented as Raya though.

Rb: Nyambe looks a top prospect. Henley is also talented. Good attacking full backs.

CB: Hanley, Duffy, Kilgallon are all good centre halves at this level. Lenhina a decent back up. Feel like we need one more though.

Lb: Spurr and Olsson both very good full backs.

Wingers: Marshall, Conway are two outstanding wingers at this level. Taylor is decent but nothing special. O'Sullivan looks like he has something about him, including a bit of pace. Maguire also likely to sign as well. Still feel we need a pacy winger.

CM: very weak, needs a complete overhaul

Strikers: Gestede will go, Brown useless, Rhodes top class, Forrester untested but looks ok. Need 2 new forwards when Gestede goes.

New signings; one new CH, two new CM (one playmaker and one box to box), two wingers (pacy one, and one technically gifted), 2 strikers (one pacy, one target man)

When Jake Kean goes, I believe we have space for 7 New players?

Potential targets for my suggested positions:

The CH will probably be a loan signing (the guy from West Ham).

Box to box midfielder will be one of the trialists, probably Furman

Playmaker: Bannan possibly or other loan from prem

Technical winger/withdrawn striker: Maguire

Pacy winger/striker: rodallega or Maynard

Target man: loan from a prem club

[tomphil]

Great idea to lose another few thousand supporters. The best supporters don't all occupy the BBE.

Edit as I got wrong end of stick.

It was only tongue in cheek reply to nodrogs post anyway but seeing as you mention the BBE it's the only place to be

[ABBEY]

Great idea to lose another few thousand supporters. The best supporters don't all occupy the BBE.

er yes we do and have done since day dot

[Rover_Shaun]

Did I read Hanley and good in the same sentence that didn't involve drinking or making positional blunders?

[LewisF]

I prefer the Darwen End tbf.

[tomphil]

I prefer the Darwen End tbf.

I wonder how many times you'll get shunted out this season ?

[Al]

Edit as I got wrong end of stick.

It was only tongue in cheek reply to nodrogs post anyway but seeing as you mention the BBE it's the only place to be

Did that when I was in my twenties and thirties but having matured I now realise that the only way to watch football is from the side.

[thenodrog]

I wasn't really loving him blueboy, I said right from day one he wasn't the man to take us up, but he's better than previous appointments, better than many options out there at the moment and more importantly wants to succeed for Blackburn Rovers.

BUT

His tactics against Liverpool at home, a side lacking confidence and there for the taking, was to hit high balls to Rhodes, a tactic thats been adopted for the past 2 seasons that has never worked. Now I’m sure you’ll point to Rhodes goal scoring record, which is good, but he rarely scores from a big punt that hits him around the shoulder area, or in most cases doesn’t go anywhere near him.

He lost my support that night, tactically inept, naive, poor, rubbish in fact.

Too one eyed a criticism gav. You have completely ignored the opposition tactics. Liverpool's tactics knowing that Josh king and gestede were out was to push up and press our midfield into our defensive third of the pitch and force us into making mistakes by denying our 2nd rate midfield the time and space to play passing footballin. Our defence had no other option except to lump it up to Rhodes who everybody knows is ineffective and a push over for defenders when 30 yards from goal. Swansea and Stoke tried it with king playing and were destroyed by his pace. Rogers job was so much easier with him out.

Just as an aside gav if you had been bowyer faced with Liverpool's game plan how would you have responded?

[den]

Too one eyed a criticism gav. You have completely ignored the opposition tactics. Liverpool's tactics knowing that Josh king and gestede were out was to push up and press our midfield into our defensive third of the pitch and force us into making mistakes by denying our 2nd rate midfield the time and space to play passing footballin. Our defence had no other option except to lump it up to Rhodes who everybody knows is ineffective and a push over for defenders when 30 yards from goal. Swansea and Stoke tried it with king playing and were destroyed by his pace. Rogers job was so much easier with him out.

Just as an aside gav if you had been bowyer faced with Liverpool's game plan how would you have responded?

The evidence is there to be seen Gord. All our best performances in the cup have been when Rhodes hasn't played. Gav and one or two others put it down to Bowyer changing tactics. Bowyer knows Rhodes' weaknesses effect performances - that's why he dropped him several times last season - at times playing Brown in an attempt to get hold of the ball up top and keep it, so why would he change to lumping it forward to a player he knows can't contribute? He wouldn't, would he.

[thenodrog]

Indeed. As I've said before den Rhodes is at his best and most dangerous against weaker opposition who allow us to spend more game time in their third of the pitch. Against strong opposition who spend most time in our half he frequently becomes a passenger. Problem is that to accommodate Rhodes weakness outside the box Bowyer has elected to play a 4-4-2 so that we can aim at a target man (Gestede / Brown and even Varney) who are strong with their backs to goal and can hold the ball up until the midfield moves up in support. Unfortunately by committing to 4-4-2 the midfield is frequently outnumbered by teams playing versions of 4-5-1 and ends up conceding ground and necessitating JR to play on the half way line. We have seen Rovers on the wrong side of the possession stats regularly. Rhodes remains a conundrum without a solution as yet.... and a very expensive one to boot.

[K-Hod]

Indeed. As I've said before den Rhodes is at his best and most dangerous against weaker opposition who allow us to spend more game time in their third of the pitch. Against strong opposition who spend most time in our half he frequently becomes a passenger. Problem is that to accommodate Rhodes weakness outside the box Bowyer has elected to play a 4-4-2 so that we can aim at a target man (Gestede / Brown and even Varney) who are strong with their backs to goal and can hold the ball up until the midfield moves up in support. Unfortunately by committing to 4-4-2 the midfield is frequently outnumbered by teams playing versions of 4-5-1 and ends up conceding ground and necessitating JR to play on the half way line. We have seen Rovers on the wrong side of the possession stats regularly. Rhodes remains a conundrum without a solution as yet.

The simple solution is asking our central midfielders that go beyond the half way line!

[thenodrog]

The simple solution is asking our central midfielders that go beyond the half way line!

Not English K-Hod. Not sure what you mean.

However assuming 'that' is actually 'to' .... thats fine but then we leave gaps behind which again is exploited by teams with 5 midfielders and a wide man or two (btw overlapping full backs seem to hurt us most). One thing that does contribute to is our undoubted brittleness. Playing 4 in mid leaves us way too vulnerable hence our goals against column v all the goals scored by the front two.

[den]

The simple solution is asking our central midfielders that go beyond the half way line!

When your four poor quality mids are being outnumbered and outplayed, are getting little possession, then losing their discipline and getting ahead of the ball only exposes us even more. Gordon is right when he says that playing 4-4-2 makes it difficult against the better teams. Our record against those teams show that.

Just seen Gord has made exactly the same point.

[K-Hod]

I wouldn't play 4-4-2 FWIW, but as we seem intent on doing so, it's not unreasonable to ask our midfielders to move!

[donnermeat]

Whatever the solution is, Brown certainly isn't any part of it.

[Gav]

Too one eyed a criticism gav. You have completely ignored the opposition tactics. Liverpool's tactics knowing that Josh king and gestede were out was to push up and press our midfield into our defensive third of the pitch and force us into making mistakes by denying our 2nd rate midfield the time and space to play passing footballin. Our defence had no other option except to lump it up to Rhodes who everybody knows is ineffective and a push over for defenders when 30 yards from goal. Swansea and Stoke tried it with king playing and were destroyed by his pace. Rogers job was so much easier with him out.

Just as an aside gav if you had been bowyer faced with Liverpool's game plan how would you have responded?

Bowyer lost my support that night, but the high balls tactic wasn't just employed for Liverpool, its been going on for 2 seasons!

First of all for the Liverpool game he should have started with Gestede, if he's good enough for the last 30minutes he good enough to start.

We're playing a Liverpool side that are low in confidence, their for the taking, start with your best 11.

All season we've seen the midfield unable to get up and down the pitch, the distance between the front players and midfield is nothing short of criminal for most parts, thats the managers fault and nobody elses.

It didn't matter who had the ball, defenders, midefields or keeper, it was big punt to Rhodes, they're not doing that because they're under pressure only, they're doing that under instructions to "hit the front man early".

Thats why Bowyer lost my support that night, it was the final straw for me.

[mustard]

Our best performances came in big games vs Prem opposition where the players had nothing to lose. Shock horror. Nothing to do with Rhodes's absence, just that the players were up for it. Forget this Rhodes vendetta. We played a number of games without him during the league campaign and were equally turgid.

I often agree with the 'defend from the front' mentality, but to solely blame it on Rhodes is folly. The midfield and defence have been to blame for many a dropped point and substitute Rhodes for Browny during our first Championship campaign and we'd have been relegated. Simple as.

Rhodes is hindered by our tactics, not the other way round. Even when Gestede was up front on his own it was the same old sh1t. Lump it upfield, hope someone does something with it up front. Rinse and repeat. Difference was, Gestede got his noggin on it more than Rhodes did, to flick it on to our onrushing centre midf- oh wait... Same end result. Ball was flicked on to no one and we lost possession. Check Rhodes vs Rudy's stats if you don't believe me. Rhodes has a superior pass completion rate and, whilst not better in the following than Gestede, is much better at holding the ball up than some of you give him credit for. HE JUST NEEDS IT INTO HIS FEET.

As for suggesting we'd play better with Varney or Brown lone up top instead of Rhodes. You're in la la land. I'm honestly not sure what game some people watch?! Whenever Brown or Varney have played, they've worked hard but inevitably fluffed it up more often than not. Whether that be through poor touches, passes or poor finishing. If we had Varney or Brown leading the line instead of Rhodes, you're incredibly naive at best to think that would transcend into better performances/results, particularly with the centre midfielders that Bowyer prefers. I'd argue a brand of football that doesn't involve passing it around the back four then pumping it wherever would see an improvement in Rhodes's game and team performance.

[den]

As for suggesting we'd play better with Varney or Brown lone up top instead of Rhodes. You're in la la land. I'm honestly not sure what game some people watch?! Whenever Brown or Varney have played, they've worked hard but inevitably fluffed it up more often than not. Whether that be through poor touches, passes or poor finishing. If we had Varney or Brown leading the line instead of Rhodes, you're incredibly naive at best to think that would transcend into better performances/results, particularly with the centre midfielders that Bowyer prefers. I'd argue a brand of football that doesn't involve passing it around the back four then pumping it wherever would see an improvement in Rhodes's game and team performance.

Erm........ Who's suggested were better off with Brown? You're totally missing the point and as with others, assuming that the argument is about the same bunch of players, but with or without Rhodes (or Gestede for that matter). There's no getting away from it. That money was spent because it was believed that it would get us promotion. It didn't, never was going to and was far too much money that could and should have been spent better. Spent properly, by a better manager instead of Singh, it would have got us into the playoffs at least.

[broadsword]

It was a misuse of vital resources, but hey, what else is new?

If we were to recount all the times the club has shot itself in the foot over the last 5 years, we'd have a breakdown.

Yes, the Rhodes' money should have been entrusted to an experienced manager to re-structure the squad to maximise the chance of promotion. But then, if we'd not appointed Kean, we wouldn't be talking about trying to build a promotion squad anyway.

It's just mere details on a charge sheet of incompetence, arrogance, stupidity and hubris that has seen this club denuded of talent, sunk to the neck in debt, barred from signing players that are anything but cast-offs and left entrenched in the second tier with no reasonable prospect of promotion, but a rather more realistic chance of relegation.

Was signing Rhodes the wrong move? Yep. Was it the worst decision that's been made in the last 5 years? Not by a very long chalk.

[Butty]

Stewart Downing close to returning to Middlesbrough. 5 million. Was class at times last season in the premiership. Might want to finish his career at his hometown club? Or Bilic might not fancy him at west ham this season? Either way, class signing for Boro.

[JHRover]

So Downing is a class signing for Middlesbrough at £5 million when he's 30 years of age and on an estimated £60k a week at West Ham.

On the same page we see a lot of people criticising Rovers' signing of Rhodes for £8 million when we were fresh out of the Premier League armed with parachute money. That signing was supposedly a waste of money, foolish etc. despite Rhodes major contribution over the last 3 seasons and likely value were we to sell him in the near future.

Bizarre logic.

Just out of interest, how do Middlesbrough spend £5 million on a 30 year old under FFP?

[K-Hod]

So Downing is a class signing for Middlesbrough at £5 million when he's 30 years of age and on an estimated £60k a week at West Ham.

On the same page we see a lot of people criticising Rovers' signing of Rhodes for £8 million when we were fresh out of the Premier League armed with parachute money. That signing was supposedly a waste of money, foolish etc. despite Rhodes major contribution over the last 3 seasons and likely value were we to sell him in the near future.

Bizarre logic.

Just out of interest, how do Middlesbrough spend £5 million on a 30 year old under FFP?

FFP only applies to Rovers.

[Butty]

So Downing is a class signing for Middlesbrough at £5 million when he's 30 years of age and on an estimated £60k a week at West Ham.

On the same page we see a lot of people criticising Rovers' signing of Rhodes for £8 million when we were fresh out of the Premier League armed with parachute money. That signing was supposedly a waste of money, foolish etc. despite Rhodes major contribution over the last 3 seasons and likely value were we to sell him in the near future.

Bizarre logic.

Just out of interest, how do Middlesbrough spend £5 million on a 30 year old under FFP?

I've never been critical of us signing Rhodes for what we did as without him the first season we came back into the championship we'd have been relegated. I based what I said more on Downings ability as a player as I think he would still do a job in the premier league as he showed last season, he got an England recall in November of last year. 5 million might be seen to be a bit steep for a 30 year old I understand that, but who's to say Downing hasn't taken a bit of a pay cut to join his hometown club? Plus I don't know how long he's signed for but if it's a 3 year deal at the very most I think it's a pretty good signing!

[West Yorks Rover]

I think Downing might be just what Boro need, didn't they have the best defence in the division last season ?

well he should certainly improve their attack, when he's on his game he has the talent to run amok in this league.

£5m will seem like peanuts if he helps them get promoted, get your money on them !!!!