[Archived] Corruption in the domestic game

[yoda]

Has it not now become blindingly obvious that the game cannot be relied upon to regulate and investigate itself.

It has taken two external, independent of the game, investigative bodies to bring down the house of cards at FIFA.

Should this approach now be adopted in the domestic game.

Perhaps in hindsight it was a strategic error presenting the "dossier" to the FA/Football League for investigation.

Still I bet it is itchy bum time in far off lands and the leafy suburbs of England at the moment.

[glen9mullan]

Has it not now become blindingly obvious that the game cannot be relied upon to regulate and investigate itself.

It has taken two external, independent of the game, investigative bodies to bring down the house of cards at FIFA.

Should this approach now be adopted in the domestic game.

Perhaps in hindsight it was a strategic error presenting the "dossier" to the FA/Football League for investigation.

Still I bet it is itchy bum time in far off lands and the leafy suburbs of England at the moment.

I agree with much of this , especially when you hear first hand that individuals within government have taken payments to allow our FA and more importantly Premier league to have a free unregulated reign of monopolising a multi billion pound empire .

I recall one person of very very high power stating that he'd witnessed payments from Scudamore , which sort of puts you in a no win situation to start with

[yoda]

I agree with much of this , especially when you hear first hand that individuals within government have taken payments to allow our FA and more importantly Premier league to have a free unregulated reign of monopolising a multi billion pound empire .

I recall one person of very very high power stating that he'd witnessed payments from Scudamore , which sort of puts you in a no win situation to start with

Which is why the dossier should go to, external to football, investigative bodies with the backing of English law

[glen9mullan]

Which is why the dossier should go to, external to football, investigative bodies with the backing of English law

Which is why the dossier should go to, external to football, investigative bodies with the backing of English law

Sadly all investigations cost money , many get shut down by others having more money or through those being investigated having deeper pockets .

For a town team with a supporter base divided , anyone's best efforts would of struggled to get a public enquiry .

Notably people of stature suddenly went quiet or appeared to get their feet under the table at Ewood .

I know as a member of BRFCAG at the time along with our other committee members , we lost collectively thousands of pounds of our money taking on an near impossible task . A handful of supporters donated some monies also , which as a supporter of Blackburn Rovers I will be eternally grateful , they know who they are with many not living in the UK.

Information don't come cheap in some cases and some who came forward always had their hand out .

Working closely with people like Nick Harris really opened my eyes to how evil rules over good as he was embroiled so much with legal red tape that he couldn't get things to print .

Even the LT when provided with evidence , which was verified as legitimate couldn't get things to print .

All websites got legal threats to prevent anything being posted on boards .

We even put taped conversations on foreign servers with help from non UK supporters which supporters failed to find on the Internet or pick up on them .

It's very easy at times , for people sat behind their keyboards to state , spill what you know .

However they are just like me and others who have tried to get the truth , the everyday fan .

They can spend 4 years like me , chasing the truth with the intention of exposing it , use their own money to do so , then gamble their own assets taking on these rich bandits .

Football on the whole needs exposing , problem is where there is money , people find it easier to take a sweetener and do nothing

[RevidgeBlue]

Has it not now become blindingly obvious that the game cannot be relied upon to regulate and investigate itself.

It has taken two external, independent of the game, investigative bodies to bring down the house of cards at FIFA.

Should this approach now be adopted in the domestic game.

Perhaps in hindsight it was a strategic error presenting the "dossier" to the FA/Football League for investigation.

Still I bet it is itchy bum time in far off lands and the leafy suburbs of England at the moment.

Or perhaps the fabled "dossier" was just a pile of innuendo, conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated nonsense, which was why none of the authorities took any action on it?

And why to this day none of the authors seem to want to make the contents public?

Perish the thought.

[jim mk2]

Corruption is endemic in government and business. Why should football be any different ?

[thenodrog]

you missed out 'press and media' Jim. 'Exposes' are not what they were eh?

[glen9mullan]

Or perhaps the fabled "dossier" was just a pile of innuendo, conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated nonsense, which was why none of the authorities took any action on it?

And why to this day none of the authors seem to want to make the contents public?

Perish the thought.

Try reading my post , Make the large cheque payable to be BRFCAG and put your money where your mouth is !!!!!

[RevidgeBlue]

Try reading my post , Make the large cheque payable to be BRFCAG and put your money where you mouth is !!!!!

I'll pass on that thanks. Try reading mine. Why don't you make the contents of the dossier public and let everyone else decide on it's validity or otherwise.

For you to claim that the LT or anyone else would have verified information which they could not or chose not to get to print undermines all your credibility on this issue.

Either you have the evidence to back up any claims or you don't. If you do, there's no risk, If you don't then the allegations probably don't bear scrutiny in the first place.

[matt83]

Mike newell is the only person within football I can think of who has stood up and spoke out against domestic corruption in football and look what happened to him. He's now a football pariah.

I think if you want to be involved in professional football in any capacity you have to be complicit in corruption or turn a blind eye to it.

[glen9mullan]

I'll pass on that thanks. Try reading mine. Why don't you make the contents of the dossier public and let everyone else decide on it's validity or otherwise.

For you to claim that the LT or anyone else would have verified information which they could not or chose not to get to print undermines all your credibility on this issue.

Either you have the evidence to back up any claims or you don't. If you do, there's no risk, If you don't then the allegations probably don't bear scrutiny in the first place.

You are either argumentative for the sake of it , or cannot grasp what you are reading ?????

The papers have a number of things , with a full paper trail , however despite this . They still can't print it without having to have millions to fight the legal claims .

Just because something is true and has supportive evidence , does not give the automatic right to print it .

You hear daily how footballers have knocked this girl up and done this , but court orders / legal threats prevent it being openly exposed .

Also sometimes when certain things come into your possession, if you've got that by not following the letter of the law and red tape , it becomes something which cannot be used as supportive evidence.

I will give you one example .

The Henning Berg case ,

It was first exposed to the public domain by BRFCAG via its website which was followed by letters from solicitors etc. (I won't bore you with the details)

All emails , letters were provided to the LT in a 2 hour meeting we had with them and also Nick Harris in another 3 hour meeting .

Although both of these knew it was true , verified the information and its authenticity . Neither could print it because of legal red tape .

We took the plunge and printed it , it ultimately turned into a court case which allowed the papers to cover it . However we got lucky as we still have our homes and how it came into our possession would of cost rovers far more public embarrassment than the court case . Which ultimately for the 4th time had rovers solicitors lose to us .

[RevidgeBlue]

"Neither could print it because of legal red tape"

"We took the plunge and printed it"

What are you on about?

[glen9mullan]

"Neither could print it because of legal red tape"

"We took the plunge and printed it"

What are you on about?

I'm on my mobile and busy

It should of read "we put it on our website after neither paper could go to print with it"

[RevidgeBlue]

What was your motive in intervening in "the Berg case" on his behalf against the Club?. They sacked him, he didn't originally get the compensation he was due. It's purely a matter for him and the Club to sort out between themselves isn't it?

You mentioned Nick Harris in one of your earlier posts, I would have thought his recent article about the extent of Venky's wealth would have been the final nail in the coffin of all the conspiracy theories, as they were all based around the premise that Venky's didn't actually have any substantial wealth to speak of but were allegedly merely fronting the takeover on behalf of other people be they Sports agencies or Glasgow gangsters or Uncle Tom Cobley.

[AndyNeil]

I'm sure if BRAG wanted they could make the dossier available for supporters to look at, at their walk-in centre/office, however for whatever reason they choose not which I suppose in entirely their choice. I think it is fair to say that most people who attend the matches these days have forgot all about BRAG and the dossier and its only kept going on here and social media.

Personally I'd like to believe that there is something in there worth reading, however the longer BRAG point blank refuse to let supporters see it the more I think that there is very little of actual substance. IF there was a 'smoking gun' or something of substance it would have leaked after this amount of time.

I'm almost certain that parts of it will have been leaked to trusted parties but considering BRAG was supposed to be giving a voice to supporters concerns, they don't seem very good at responding to concerns supporters have about this dossier. A simple YES/NO question for anybody in 'authority' at BRAG reading this - WOULD BRAGAG BE PREPARED TO LET SUPPORTERS FLICK THROUGH THE DOSSIER AT A LOCATION WITHOUT THE NEED FOR PUBLISHING IT ONLINE?

[Amo]

Why can't you put this dossier on somewhere like WikiLeaks?

[yoda]

Unbelievable,

The point is, has the dossier been passed to the Police or the CPS, these are bodies independent of football. Glen, how can it cost money to BRAG or anyone else if the independent bodies investigate ?

[RevidgeBlue]

Top post Andy. I was actually considering asking something similar, i.e. asking Glen if he would allow me to view any materials he considered important given that I have always been such a critic of the conspiracy theories. If I was then persuaded by what I saw I would gladly say so.

Unbelievable,

The point is, has the dossier been passed to the Police or the CPS, these are bodies independent of football. Glen, how can it cost money to BRAG or anyone else if the independent bodies investigate ?

Another good point. I would have my own view on why the authors wouldn't want to pass the dossier on to the CPS or the FBI or the relevant authorities anywhere but that's just my view and possibly completely unfair.

[EgyptianPete]

Top post Andy. I was actually considering asking something similar, i.e. asking Glen if he would allow me to view any materials he considered important given that I have always been such a critic of the conspiracy theories. If I was then persuaded by what I saw I would gladly say so.

Another good point. I would have my own view on why the authors wouldn't want to pass the dossier on to the CPS or the FBI or the relevant authorities anywhere but that's just my view and possibly completely unfair.

Blimey pal do you have a beef with Glen or what, your even calling him basically a liar in the transfer thread, I know who i would want to back me up in trouble, can you guess or am i not able to write in English so you understand.

[yoda]

While you are all running around having a go at each other, people like he who cannot be named are pissing themselves,

all the way to the bank probably

[RevidgeBlue]

I have no beef with Glen as I don't know him other than I don't believe all the conspiracy theory nonsense Glen and others have been peddling ever since the Walker Trust sold the Club to Venkys.

As far as I am concerned Venkys have been grossly incompetent in their running of the Club since they took over but as the likes of Scudamore and Jack Straw have said that's not in itself grounds for the authorities to intervene.

It's painful enough for most supporters that the Club have fallen as far as they have due to Venky's ineptitude. Why certain people have to make it into something else again, I really don't know.

If Glen has the slightest shred of evidence to contradict the above he's welcome to publish or show privately. I don't think that's an unreasonable position.

While you are all running around having a go at each other, people like he who cannot be named are pissing themselves,

all the way to the bank probably

As was Willie McKay when Souness was in charge no doubt. That wasn't illegal either.

[AndyNeil]

While you are all running around having a go at each other, people like he who cannot be named are pissing themselves,

all the way to the bank probably

I hope you don't include me in that group?

[yoda]

I hope you don't include me in that group?

Actually,

No

If someone has evidence though, it is now plainly obvious that it has to go to an independent body.

Football cannot regulate it's own corporate rules, it needs outside audites

[glen9mullan]

I have always been 100% approachable and when asked a question in person , be that by 1 person or in a room of 500 I never shy away from giving an answer .

I'm no longer in BRFCAG , so forgive me for not answering on their part .

However when I was a member , we went to the FA, Premier league and Parliament armed with the towns MPs , I'm pretty sure they wouldn't of bothered if everything was Rosie and there was not serious questions to be answered due to our findings ??

Upon our return we held a full open meeting , open to everyone , which was well publicised and was attended by a number of people . (Including many BRFCS members ) many questions were asked at this meeting by the floor and every question was answered fully without keeping anything in , to the best of our knowledge based on information gathered either in written or verbal format .

That was the opportunity for people to come along and listen and make there own minds up, if you didn't attend then from my perspective don't expect an encore from me . I'm no longer on the committee at BRFCAG , owe nobody anything and gave my time for free , despite getting enough abuse for a lifetime .

The Dossier as people refer to it , is no good without the commentary from those who presented it , namely Me and Philip L , under the watchful eyes of Mark, Savio and Rob.

Spoken testament from witnesses is not written down , therefore if you read the God knows how many pages , it would not make an ounce of sense . Reason being most witnesses will not give written testament as it contravenes their NDAs , contracts etc.

Furthermore witnesses state they will openly repeat what they've said if there was a public enquiry .

Smoking guns as people refer to , are not in this dossier and no one has ever claimed that there is one within its content .

With what we was told , what we have in written format ( which a lot is already in the public domain) and what witnesses are willing to say . We gave the authorities a platform to investigate . Sadly they have not done so , they've brushed it under the carpet .

I think people are expecting an open and shut case ?? What has been presented is 75% of the story , sadly crooks don't document their exact movements .

We are football fans , not Panarama , I'm really not sure what more you expect to see or hear ??

Reading 600 pages of things which some you've seen or read in some capacity over the last 4 years and some that you wouldn't know how it fits is just a pointless exercise imo

And would pose more questions than answers .

[yoda]

I have always been 100% approachable and when asked a question in person , be that by 1 person or in a room of 500 I never shy away from giving an answer .

I'm no longer in BRFCAG , so forgive me for not answering on their part .

However when I was a member , we went to the FA, Premier league and Parliament armed with the towns MPs , I'm pretty sure they wouldn't of bothered if everything was Rosie and there was not serious questions to be answered due to our findings ??

Upon our return we held a full open meeting , open to everyone , which was well publicised and was attended by a number of people . (Including many BRFCS members ) many questions were asked at this meeting by the floor and every question was answered fully without keeping anything in , to the best of our knowledge based on information gathered either in written or verbal format .

That was the opportunity for people to come along and listen and make there own minds up, if you didn't attend then from my perspective don't expect in encore from me . I'm no longer on the committee at BRFCAG , owe nobody anything and gave my time for free , despite getting enough abuse for a lifetime .

The Dossier as people refer to it , is no good without the commentary from those who presented it , namely Me and Philip L , under the watchful eyes of Mark, Savio and Rob.

Spoken testament from witnesses is not written down , therefore if you read the God knows how many pages , it would not make an ounce of sense . Reason being most witnesses will not give written testament as it contravenes their NDAs , contracts etc

NDA's are invalid if wrong doing is proven, no where have you said the Police or CPS were contacted.

FIFA had been saying for years that the corruption did not exist, the FBI start looking and it's like rats jumping from a sinking ship.

A forensic investigation would overcome the bit in bold