[Archived] Were does the 2million a month loss come from.

[yoda]

Page 13 of the accounts filed at companies house for Venkys London Limited has net debt as £21,175,075

are we looking at differing accounts ?

Got it now, net debt was £79,825,561 (page 22) of which £58,625,000 (page 20) was owed to the parent company which looking at the parent company accounts has been turned into paid up shares. The difference between the 2 amounts is £21,200,561. Net assets are stated as £23,729,549 on page 18, that would explain the accountants being able to sign off the accounts.

The total shares now paid up as from 2nd April 2015 stands at £143,988,454, that is the Venkys exposure to the operation, if they walk away, they kiss that goodbye !

[Exiled in Toronto]

Got it now, net debt was £79,825,561 (page 22) of which £58,625,000 (page 20) was owed to the parent company which looking at the parent company accounts has been turned into paid up shares. The difference between the 2 amounts is £21,200,561. Net assets are stated as £23,729,549 on page 18, that would explain the accountants being able to sign off the accounts.

The total shares now paid up as from 2nd April 2015 stands at £143,988,454, that is the Venkys exposure to the operation, if they walk away, they kiss that goodbye !

Surely a big chunk of the 145 million are the shares that Jack converted from debt? Isn't their exposure the 58 million, which is now effectively gone, the 21 million loan and whatever the purchase price?

[yoda]

Surely a big chunk of the 145 million are the shares that Jack converted from debt? Isn't their exposure the 58 million, which is now effectively gone, the 21 million loan and whatever the purchase price?

Don't think so, will have to try and find the capitalisation of the club at the time of the sale, either way that is what they are exposed to now.

Relatively speaking the debt of the club is small as they have turned it into paid up shares

[tomphil]

I seem to remember it being said somewhere on here that the original purchase price and debt is on the books of VLL and is included in that total. Also in a times of India article a couple of years ago (?) it mentioned that it looked like the purchase money was borrowed from the BOI.

[TBTF]

I agree.

Once we have got Orr's pay-off and Robinson's salary out of our system then the only two players we have who can be on 'big' money are Rhodes and Best. Possibly also Hanley but he signed a new deal when Bowyer became manager so I would be surprised if he was on huge money.

Everyone else has been signed in the last couple of years on what we are led to believe are manageable and sensible contracts. Certainly the likes of Spurr, Kilgallon, Brown, Taylor and co. will be on average/low end Championship wages.

We need to bear in mind that we CAN afford to have one or two 'big' earners like Rhodes at the club, providing that the owners are prepared to pick up the tab for that.

From 2016 onwards we will be allowed losses of £13 million average a year. Even including running costs, which don't apply to FFP, we could still pay one or two players big money and stay within that permissible level of loss, as long as whoever owns the club is willing/able to pick up the tab for that.

My policy would be to fight tooth and nail to keep our best players through until next summer (2016). By that stage the pay-offs and Orr/Robbo will be through the accounts and we will have another 12 months to make savings. From then on if we're not out of the embargo serious questions need to be asked of Shaw and co. as to why not when every other club has managed it.

Lets remember that the 22 clubs not under an embargo, with the exception of Leeds (McCormack) have not had to sell any prized assets to comply. We're 12-24 months behind those clubs after the fiasco of 2012-13 but that doesn't mean we HAVE to sell our best players to eventually comply.

I admire your simplicity JHR if nothing else!

We cannot view £13 million of permitted losses as some kind of challenge to work up to and I doubt Venkys who will be well north of £100million down by the time the June accounts are filed see themselves covering that level of losses for much longer.

Our problem is our minimal level of income as much as anything. By the time next year ends we will no longer have parachutes and will be lucky to see our income hold out at the current level of £6million. That in reality is not much better than some League One clubs and unless something can be done about it that's exactly where natural gravity will take us.

But the here and now is that Rhodes and Best will basically absorb all our income again this year (apart from TV /Parachutes-assuming we haven't already spent it).

I don't know about anyone else but I am becoming increasingly alarmed by the silence from India or GB /Shelfy explaining what has been arranged this close season.I don't think I am alone in thinking they might just be losing interest .Its a while since we saw the kind of spending/signings that really pointed to a serious promotion campaign and its been a process of gradual dumbing down as many on here have pointed out. The silence so far this Summer suggests this season will be no different and if we lose Gestede and or Rhodes then we are looking at a very bleak winter at Ewood.

The bottom line JHR is that £6m of income does not allow us to put a competitive side together or deal with any debt levels and to assume the Loons will continue to do it indefinitely is both dangerous and totally unrealistic.

[Athlete]

I admire your simplicity JHR if nothing else!

We cannot view £13 million of permitted losses as some kind of challenge to work up to and I doubt Venkys who will be well north of £100million down by the time the June accounts are filed see themselves covering that level of losses for much longer.

Our problem is our minimal level of income as much as anything. By the time next year ends we will no longer have parachutes and will be lucky to see our income hold out at the current level of £6million. That in reality is not much better than some League One clubs and unless something can be done about it that's exactly where natural gravity will take us.

But the here and now is that Rhodes and Best will basically absorb all our income again this year (apart from TV /Parachutes-assuming we haven't already spent it).

I don't know about anyone else but I am becoming increasingly alarmed by the silence from India or GB /Shelfy explaining what has been arranged this close season.I don't think I am alone in thinking they might just be losing interest .Its a while since we saw the kind of spending/signings that really pointed to a serious promotion campaign and its been a process of gradual dumbing down as many on here have pointed out. The silence so far this Summer suggests this season will be no different and if we lose Gestede and or Rhodes then we are looking at a very bleak winter at Ewood.

The bottom line JHR is that £6m of income does not allow us to put a competitive side together or deal with any debt levels and to assume the Loons will continue to do it indefinitely is both dangerous and totally unrealistic.

Unless in the unlikely event we go up does anyone see the loons keeping hold of the club after next season ? Even the loons advisors will have advised an exit plan ..Can see it becoming messy

[tomphil]

Alarm bells rang for me when I opened the ST pack and read a letter signed Blackburn Rovers. Nothing from the Chairwoman, nothing from the clip counter whose supposed to run the club day to day operating under whatever title they've given him. Nothing from the director of communications, who never communicates anyway. Most notably nothing from the manager himself which I thought very very strange. Bowyer whatever you can say about him always stands up and speaks to the fans and seems to deem it important.

All it says to me is no one knows what the feck is going on and no one will put their name to anything, doesn't look good really.

[JHRover]

I admire your simplicity JHR if nothing else!

We cannot view £13 million of permitted losses as some kind of challenge to work up to and I doubt Venkys who will be well north of £100million down by the time the June accounts are filed see themselves covering that level of losses for much longer.

Our problem is our minimal level of income as much as anything. By the time next year ends we will no longer have parachutes and will be lucky to see our income hold out at the current level of £6million. That in reality is not much better than some League One clubs and unless something can be done about it that's exactly where natural gravity will take us.

But the here and now is that Rhodes and Best will basically absorb all our income again this year (apart from TV /Parachutes-assuming we haven't already spent it).

I don't know about anyone else but I am becoming increasingly alarmed by the silence from India or GB /Shelfy explaining what has been arranged this close season.I don't think I am alone in thinking they might just be losing interest .Its a while since we saw the kind of spending/signings that really pointed to a serious promotion campaign and its been a process of gradual dumbing down as many on here have pointed out. The silence so far this Summer suggests this season will be no different and if we lose Gestede and or Rhodes then we are looking at a very bleak winter at Ewood.

The bottom line JHR is that £6m of income does not allow us to put a competitive side together or deal with any debt levels and to assume the Loons will continue to do it indefinitely is both dangerous and totally unrealistic.

I understand that no business or club should 'aspire' to losses of 'only' £13 million.

The point i was trying to make was that providing we have owners willing/able to stump up that shortfall then such an amount would enable this club to remain very much a force in this league, and would enable the retention of one or two highly paid players.

That is of course based on the foundation that venkys or whoever owns the club in future is willing and able to do that. Obviously we can't assume the funding will continue indefinitely, but we have to hope it does, at least until the clubs significant financial obligations are sorted out. e.g. Leon Best.

The problem we have to accept is that we are always going to lose money. The stark reality is that every club in this league loses money every year, and most are reliant on wealthy benefactors to cover those losses and provide additional income. We are no different. Gone are the days where we could survive in this league on gates of 10,000 and be competitive. We need money from somewhere else. We needed external money when Jack Walker came in and we need it even more so today.

As a club we have a greater need than most for such wealthy owners. We aren't a big club in this league, and can't rely on 20,000 a week through the good times and bad. We're hovering around the 13,000 mark as a top half side with a strong team. As such, to cover the extra income that we can't get from gates and sponsorship that others can get, we could really use a rich owner putting some money in every year to offset the difference.

When you look at the money being thrown around by Derby and others, the only way we can hope to compete is by way of wealthy owners pumping in the cash.

I too am concerned about the level of silence coming from the club. But I am also quietly confident that it will be nigh on impossible for Venkys to simply cut and run and leave the club in the mire. The level of their financial commitment to the club is so high that simply ditching the club really isnt an option.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Strange days indeed down Ewood way,never known owt like it tbh.

[den]

I understand that no business or club should 'aspire' to losses of 'only' £13 million.

The point i was trying to make was that providing we have owners willing/able to stump up that shortfall then such an amount would enable this club to remain very much a force in this league

They've lost going on £100m so far and were not a force. Neither will we be a force while the game plan is to take in cast off/freebies and use an academy coach to enhance their individual values. Get a proper manager in - someone who knows what it takes and will do things his way - back him to the hilt and we might have a chance. Otherwise, we'll carry on in the same direction as the last four years.

[TBTF]

I understand that no business or club should 'aspire' to losses of 'only' £13 million.

The point i was trying to make was that providing we have owners willing/able to stump up that shortfall then such an amount would enable this club to remain very much a force in this league, and would enable the retention of one or two highly paid players.

That is of course based on the foundation that venkys or whoever owns the club in future is willing and able to do that. Obviously we can't assume the funding will continue indefinitely, but we have to hope it does, at least until the clubs significant financial obligations are sorted out. e.g. Leon Best.

The problem we have to accept is that we are always going to lose money. The stark reality is that every club in this league loses money every year, and most are reliant on wealthy benefactors to cover those losses and provide additional income. We are no different. Gone are the days where we could survive in this league on gates of 10,000 and be competitive. We need money from somewhere else. We needed external money when Jack Walker came in and we need it even more so today.

As a club we have a greater need than most for such wealthy owners. We aren't a big club in this league, and can't rely on 20,000 a week through the good times and bad. We're hovering around the 13,000 mark as a top half side with a strong team. As such, to cover the extra income that we can't get from gates and sponsorship that others can get, we could really use a rich owner putting some money in every year to offset the difference.

When you look at the money being thrown around by Derby and others, the only way we can hope to compete is by way of wealthy owners pumping in the cash.

I too am concerned about the level of silence coming from the club. But I am also quietly confident that it will be nigh on impossible for Venkys to simply cut and run and leave the club in the mire. The level of their financial commitment to the club is so high that simply ditching the club really isnt an option.

I don't dispute any of that JHR but it just appears to me that they have pulled back somewhat from throwing money at the Club other than the legacy costs that they can't really affect.But for someone so wealthy with so much invested you would think that they would bankroll a promotion charge ( like QPR perhaps) . But even before the embargo it was starting to appear a bit ' average' in terms of what we were signing.if they were really hell bent on getting promoted then some trophy signings might have been on the cards.I just get the feeling that the Shebby years and the Murphy , Etuhu disasters has had an effect and its become a case of doing what they need to as a minimum and no more now. Ie cover the necessary costs but that's your lot.

I do think they have lost interest in it which wouldn't be good

[JHRover]

I don't dispute any of that JHR but it just appears to me that they have pulled back somewhat from throwing money at the Club other than the legacy costs that they can't really affect.But for someone so wealthy with so much invested you would think that they would bankroll a promotion charge ( like QPR perhaps) . But even before the embargo it was starting to appear a bit ' average' in terms of what we were signing.if they were really hell bent on getting promoted then some trophy signings might have been on the cards.I just get the feeling that the Shebby years and the Murphy , Etuhu disasters has had an effect and its become a case of doing what they need to as a minimum and no more now. Ie cover the necessary costs but that's your lot.

I do think they have lost interest in it which wouldn't be good

I'm not really clear on their policy. As recently as last summer they provided decent cash for the signing of Shane Duffy, who most agreed was/is a decent signing for this level. The handing of a contract extension to Jordan Rhodes I feel also demonstrated commitment to the club in wanting to keep him and continue to pay his wages. Before that every transfer window they had provided cash to sign players and trusted Bowyer with that money.

After the shenanigans of Steve Kean and friends and then Shebby Singh, it would have been very easy for Venkys to turn off the tap and say no to Bowyer's requests, but they have allowed him to construct his own squad whilst also paying off past mistakes and servicing the debts. Many wouldn't have done.

It is clear that since the ill-advised splurge of 2012-13 the amount of money spent on players has fallen. We can only speculate as to whether this is Venkys reducing their commitment or whether they are being advised to reduce spending to try and get the club under control and comply with FFP in the near future.

Why haven't we heard from them this summer? Its very odd. To be honest, they've never spoken to the fans directly, so that isn't unusual, but having employed a Director of Communications, Managing Director and manager for none of those to be communicating seems very strange.

[TBTF]

I'm not really clear on their policy. As recently as last summer they provided decent cash for the signing of Shane Duffy, who most agreed was/is a decent signing for this level. The handing of a contract extension to Jordan Rhodes I feel also demonstrated commitment to the club in wanting to keep him and continue to pay his wages. Before that every transfer window they had provided cash to sign players and trusted Bowyer with that money.

After the shenanigans of Steve Kean and friends and then Shebby Singh, it would have been very easy for Venkys to turn off the tap and say no to Bowyer's requests, but they have allowed him to construct his own squad whilst also paying off past mistakes and servicing the debts. Many wouldn't have done.

It is clear that since the ill-advised splurge of 2012-13 the amount of money spent on players has fallen. We can only speculate as to whether this is Venkys reducing their commitment or whether they are being advised to reduce spending to try and get the club under control and comply with FFP in the near future.

Why haven't we heard from them this summer? Its very odd. To be honest, they've never spoken to the fans directly, so that isn't unusual, but having employed a Director of Communications, Managing Director and manager for none of those to be communicating seems very strange.

Totally agree . Myers has been a joke from Day one and if ill health is still an issue then he should have been replaced even on a temp basis.

We have Director of Communications who in 16 months or whatever has barely said a word .

I also read Tommy Johnson our Head of Recruitment in the LT and couldn't help wondering just what that job entails in an embargo and with barely any spaces in the squad to fill - unless we lose some.

[Athlete]

Silence is deafening ..We've always had some sort of message or communication on the ST pack this time ..Nothing

[Stefan Hedgehog]

Silence is deafening ..We've always had some sort of message or communication on the ST pack this time ..Nothing

i wonder why the club never sent me a pack,i have been a season ticket holder for 30 off the last 45 yrs.

[awhom111]

Got it now, net debt was £79,825,561 (page 22) of which £58,625,000 (page 20) was owed to the parent company which looking at the parent company accounts has been turned into paid up shares. The difference between the 2 amounts is £21,200,561. Net assets are stated as £23,729,549 on page 18, that would explain the accountants being able to sign off the accounts.

The total shares now paid up as from 2nd April 2015 stands at £143,988,454, that is the Venkys exposure to the operation, if they walk away, they kiss that goodbye !

I always use the club accounts when available to deal with operational matters. Obviously the parent company accounts are important for ownership and other matters, but the different fiscal years force a little bit more guesswork about which activity belongs with which season.

[Stefan Hedgehog]

I always use the club accounts when available to deal with operational matters. Obviously the parent company accounts are important for ownership and other matters, but the different fiscal years force a little bit more guesswork about which activity belongs with which season.

so you understand all this jargon,work in the field.do me and the retards a favour and turn it into simple language.

[yoda]

i wonder why the club never sent me a pack,i have been a season ticket holder for 30 off the last 45 yrs.

Maybe Barley is not on the Rovers data base !

so you understand all this jargon,work in the field.do me and the retards a favour and turn it into simple language.

Anyway it looks like the Venkys have spent 145 million quid and if they pull out have no chance of getting it back with the Rovers in the Championship, think that is it in it's simplest terms