[Archived] The Championship 2015-2016

[Baz]

Is that the rule, or is that what you think the rule should be?

How it should be done.

It's fair to everyone, and stops owners running up large debts that are put against the club.

[Stuart]

How it should be done.

It's fair to everyone, and stops owners running up large debts that are put against the club.

I can see where you're coming from but it's a strange situation. For any other business, market forces would simply apply. If you overspend then the business would fold. Providing they aren't banned, directors of limited companies would dust down their pride and start again. The problem is that starting again in football means starting in a completely different market. Like going from being a market leader in the high street to being a market trader in the... market.

Although it would mean shackling a business to an extent, some form of regulation does seem appropriate. If only to protect 'emotional shareholders' from overambitious football club 'custodians'. We are customers without an alternative such is the tribal nature of football, and not just because of distance. We aren't shopping at the local shop just because Asda is too far away. It's because the shop and the people who run it have become part of our lives, of our identity.

The trouble is that means testing will prevent clubs from having any sort of ambition. Rovers would never have won the league had FFP been implemented in 1986, even on a player by player basis. The idea that you can organically and meaningfully grow a fan base (particularly in a deprived town) without a successful team on the pitch is almost absurd. Presumably only city clubs or clubs with large catchment areas could hope to be in the top flight. Someone like Blackburn son, Jack Walker, would not have been able to give back to his town but would have had to move to somewhere with a larger base - but what would have been the point? If you are lucky enough or successful enough that your town produces a millionaire (billionaire these days) then if it's all their cash then they should be able to spend it. When the money runs out, it's for the club to cut its cloth as quickly as possible. Rovers didn't and that's when they suffered. Largely because the money brought the wrong sorts of people to the club - on and off the field. The regulations should start by bringing the 'emotional stakeholders' closer to the running of the club. All clubs should be required to have a fans' trust organisation to whom the club are accountable. With the elected leader having a place on the club's board. If done properly (and I'm mindful of the often quoted (allegedly) John Williams that 'the real decision making would take place after such a person had left the room' - a statement that could be made about any board organisation answerable to a higher party, i.e. owners) then this would mean that the fans would have some say in key decisions. Then if it all goes pear-shaped we can't just wash our hands and blame the club (all of a sudden disassociated from us). But ultimately while there are football club owners involved then this is not a democracy. We put our faith in them whether we trust them or not. As we have found out only too painfully.

My final question is, what did clubs do before the PL and Sky money came in? When football was competitive beyond 4 or 8 or 20 teams out of the 92? (Or even 96). There is more money in (and being taken out of) the game than ever before yet more clubs are on the brink due to debts.

[tomphil]

I don't see why notlob fans are turning on Lennon as it seems their players are giving up. Not many managers will be able to motivate players who don't get paid. It's a tough situation for them but sod it they revelled in our demise and were quick enough to put the boot in so I hope we heap loads on their problems tomorrow.

A 3 nil win and a full scale revolt from their fans towards their players will do nicely thankyou very much. Karma will be served from when they stood there singing there's only one keano when Ewood turned on him.

[Baz]

I can see where you're coming from but it's a strange situation. For any other business, market forces would simply apply. If you overspend then the business would fold. Providing they aren't banned, directors of limited companies would dust down their pride and start again. The problem is that starting again in football means starting in a completely different market. Like going from being a market leader in the high street to being a market trader in the... market.

Although it would mean shackling a business to an extent, some form of regulation does seem appropriate. If only to protect 'emotional shareholders' from overambitious football club 'custodians'. We are customers without an alternative such is the tribal nature of football, and not just because of distance. We aren't shopping at the local shop just because Asda is too far away. It's because the shop and the people who run it have become part of our lives, of our identity.

The trouble is that means testing will prevent clubs from having any sort of ambition. Rovers would never have won the league had FFP been implemented in 1986, even on a player by player basis. The idea that you can organically and meaningfully grow a fan base (particularly in a deprived town) without a successful team on the pitch is almost absurd. Presumably only city clubs or clubs with large catchment areas could hope to be in the top flight. Someone like Blackburn son, Jack Walker, would not have been able to give back to his town but would have had to move to somewhere with a larger base - but what would have been the point? If you are lucky enough or successful enough that your town produces a millionaire (billionaire these days) then if it's all their cash then they should be able to spend it. When the money runs out, it's for the club to cut its cloth as quickly as possible. Rovers didn't and that's when they suffered. Largely because the money brought the wrong sorts of people to the club - on and off the field. The regulations should start by bringing the 'emotional stakeholders' closer to the running of the club. All clubs should be required to have a fans' trust organisation to whom the club are accountable. With the elected leader having a place on the club's board. If done properly (and I'm mindful of the often quoted (allegedly) John Williams that 'the real decision making would take place after such a person had left the room' - a statement that could be made about any board organisation answerable to a higher party, i.e. owners) then this would mean that the fans would have some say in key decisions. Then if it all goes pear-shaped we can't just wash our hands and blame the club (all of a sudden disassociated from us). But ultimately while there are football club owners involved then this is not a democracy. We put our faith in them whether we trust them or not. As we have found out only too painfully.

My final question is, what did clubs do before the PL and Sky money came in? When football was competitive beyond 4 or 8 or 20 teams out of the 92? (Or even 96). There is more money in (and being taken out of) the game than ever before yet more clubs are on the brink due to debts.

What Im suggesting though is that owners can put money into the club, just not in the form of debt/loans. That clubs can only buy players if it doesn't put them into debt.

[rigger]

I don't see why notlob fans are turning on Lennon as it seems their players are giving up. Not many managers will be able to motivate players who don't get paid. It's a tough situation for them but sod it they revelled in our demise and were quick enough to put the boot in so I hope we heap loads on their problems tomorrow.

A 3 nil win and a full scale revolt from their fans towards their players will do nicely thankyou very much. Karma will be served from when they stood there singing there's only one keano when Ewood turned on him.

To the tune of "She'll be coming round the mountain."

You can come and watch the Rovers when your bust.

You can come and watch the Rovers when your bust.

You can come and watch the Rovers.

Come and watch the Rovers.

Come and watch the Rovers when your bust.

That should cheer them up.

[chaddyrovers]

Jokanovic appointed Fulham First team head coach

http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2015/december/27/jokanovic-appointed

[JHRover]

I'm surprised Jokanovic has left his position at Maccabi to join Fulham, especially as everyone knows he isnt their first choice and they have actively tried to get 3-4 others in ahead of him.

Coupled with their transfer embargo and league position and they have little/no chance of play offs this year.

[DE.]

I'm surprised Jokanovic has left his position at Maccabi to join Fulham, especially as everyone knows he isnt their first choice and they have actively tried to get 3-4 others in ahead of him.

Coupled with their transfer embargo and league position and they have little/no chance of play offs this year.

Have to assume they've offered him a shedload of money to join. It's a decent appointment for them, but until they're out of the embargo they aren't going anywhere fast.

[JHRover]

Have to assume they've offered him a shedload of money to join. It's a decent appointment for them, but until they're out of the embargo they aren't going anywhere fast.

Compensation paid around the £750,000 mark. Quite a large figure for a club in breach of FFP and in need of cutbacks.

Looking at Jokanovic's career he seems to have done reasonably well everywhere he has been but rarely hangs around long. Made his way through about 6 clubs in 3 years across 5 countries.

Could be a good appointment as a head coach for Fulham but on his past form he won't be there very long.

[DE.]

Compensation paid around the £750,000 mark. Quite a large figure for a club in breach of FFP and in need of cutbacks.

Looking at Jokanovic's career he seems to have done reasonably well everywhere he has been but rarely hangs around long. Made his way through about 6 clubs in 3 years across 5 countries.

Could be a good appointment as a head coach for Fulham but on his past form he won't be there very long.

Fulham aren't exactly known as patient under Khan's ownership either. If things don't go too well they could already have parted ways by the summer.

[roverandout]

Didn't he say he wasn't interested in coming to rovers? Then why Fulham? Only half the club we are! Suppose London is a big pull

[arbitro]

Interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3376916/Leeds-deny-camera-crew-access-Elland-Road-ahead-televised-clash-Derby-latest-twist-baffling-Massimo-Cellino-reign.html

[arbitro]

Interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3376916/Leeds-deny-camera-crew-access-Elland-Road-ahead-televised-clash-Derby-latest-twist-baffling-Massimo-Cellino-reign.html

Just watching the game now and every time the Leeds fans get the 'Sky TV is fuc**** shi*' chant going the sound is muted and some background crowd noise comes on. What a pathetic organisation.

[G Somerset Rover]

12 points off the play-offs now. Surely even the most positive of Rovers fans has given up the ghost of making them.

[Stuart]

Got to think so but it's a strange division so you never know. Ipswich winning wasn't a great result.

The potential implications are that Lambert looks at it and thinks there is no point in strengthening in January and he thinks he can get this rag tag bunch over the 50 point line.

Promotion this season requires a series of miracles, and major will and belief from Lambert. I wonder if Holloway ever thought Blackpool would get promoted based on their December points total.

[Tom]

Got to think so but it's a strange division so you never know. Ipswich winning wasn't a great result.

The potential implications are that Lambert looks at it and thinks there is no point in strengthening in January and he thinks he can get this rag tag bunch over the 50 point line.

Promotion this season requires a series of miracles, and major will and belief from Lambert. I wonder if Holloway ever thought Blackpool would get promoted based on their December points total.

Just noted similar in the Lambert thread; I said all along that for me this season is now one of transition, we were going nowhere but the spike under Lambert took us to a point where it looked possible and raised expectation.

Get them fit and playing in a style that works and get some new bodies on board and I'll be happy.

The Rhodes conundrum is the major one and I hope he can solve it before next season.

[Stuart]

Just noted similar in the Lambert thread; I said all along that for me this season is now one of transition, we were going nowhere but the spike under Lambert took us to a point where it looked possible and raised expectation.

Get them fit and playing in a style that works and get some new bodies on board and I'll be happy.

The Rhodes conundrum is the major one and I hope he can solve it before next season.

Taking Lambert at face value though we will only be bringing in loans in January. The only reasons to do so are promotion or avoiding relegation - unless he thinks he can do loan-to-buy and use this time to develop a system.

Let's hope so.

[punerover]

An interesting point to note. Even the new fulham boss played cairney on the wing.

[grizfoot]

12 points off the play-offs now. Surely even the most positive of Rovers fans has given up the ghost of making them.

Until it's mathematically impossible you've still got to believe! I don't see the point in going to the games otherwise. But realistically we are situated in the sort of league position I expect a lot of people would say we are likely to finish in. The new manager bounce gave us increased hope that maybe we could mulster together a push for the play-offs this season but the two recent defeats and the manner of the performances has left the feeling again that it is very unlikely. As football fans we always have a tendency to look up rather than down at present we are considerably closer to the relegation zone (7 points) than we are to the play-offs (12 points).

[DE.]

A terrible start for JFH at QPR. He could still come good but have to admit I was relieved we went for Lambert instead. Hasselbaink had a great record in Leagues 1 and 2, but when you step up to the PL/Championship you start dealing with players on much higher wages and opposition with much better players. His lack of experience will be a big obstacle to overcome imo, particularly with QPR in the state they are in at present.

[chaddyrovers]

I think Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink has a massive job QPR and it will take him time to turn them around.

I feel they need to back him and his plans going forward like signing his players he wants and they need a massive clearout there again

[tomphil]

QPR brings a different kind of pressure with the money invested and the tetchy owners. Players on daft wages and long contracts but just aren't really good enough and others who can't handle the weight of expectation.

Still with what they have they should be good enough to go up but it's been a basket case club ever since the money came in. They need to bite the bullet and go down the stability line for a bit........

[DE.]

I think Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink has a massive job QPR and it will take him time to turn them around.

I feel they need to back him and his plans going forward like signing his players he wants and they need a massive clearout there again

He should have stayed at Burton, imo. If he'd gotten them promoted his stock would have risen even higher, and even if not Championship clubs would still have been interested in him. If it all goes wrong at QPR his stock falls significantly and he's probably right back to where he started in League One/Two. Kind of like what happened to Mr Ince.

I appreciate the lure of London was there for him, and he was probably offered a lot more money than he was on at Burton, but I think it's the wrong job for him. They need an experienced man to sort out the mess there, rather than another young manager. At the very least he'll need a couple of seasons to prove himself, and I'm not convinced they'll give him that time. I suppose we'll see. Realistically Ramsey should have been replaced before the start of the season, for a club that claims to have ambition it was a very unambitious decision to keep a coach at the helm.

[Blue blood]

In fairness to JFH his record at Burton was amazing but even more pertinently QPR is a managerial graveyard. Hughes and Redknapp both failed there and as others have said it seems a real basket case of a club. When you've the likes of Fer & Austin in the team and are nowhere near the play offs you have issues.

[Athlete]

In fairness to JFH his record at Burton was amazing but even more pertinently QPR is a managerial graveyard. Hughes and Redknapp both failed there and as others have said it seems a real basket case of a club. When you've the likes of Fer & Austin in the team and are nowhere near the play offs you have issues.

Bit similar to us last season with 2 goalscorers