[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 2

[chris_h]

A club that finished way behind us in the league last season and that will be competing against us next season clearly don't agree. They must think he is worth that money and that he can do a good job for them whatever position they chose to put him into.

The general policy should be to not sell any of our better players to Championship clubs. Premier League only.

Fair enough, you'll have seen him more than me. I saw him do a full 90 and two sub appearances last season and I wasn't impressed. Some of the mates are of the same opinion but some liked him. I wouldn't be unhappy if he stayed but £3.5m is good money for a player who struggles for consistency, represents a decent profit and eases the strictures of FFP. Fulham have form for overpaying for under achievers, I reckon they might be about to do it again.

[tomphil]

Sure it was said there was a deal on the table for Chris Taylor all along he just needed to sign it. Wouldn't mind keeping him as a squad man at all. End of the day these lads often tend to show mercenary tendencies as that's how they can make a few extra quid in what will be a limited career for his type. A similar wage but a new signing on fee and maybe extra year optional and some of them are quite happy to move sideways or even downwards, championship is littered with them. We'll miss him though as a squad man.

[ABBEY]

I think you chose to ignore the implication (or is it inference?) in the phrase 'bought the league'. Of course all teams buy and sell players and pay their wages, the meaning of 'bought the league' relates to using money you didn't and could never generate yourselves - it is also further nuanced with an inference that the amounts were well in excess of revenues. So for example Man United didn't buy their titles, neither did Liverpool as they spent the money they generated themselves. Chelsea and City on the other hand did buy their titles, at least initially, not sure what the situation is for them today. Instead of frothing at the mouth when it is mentioned why not just accept that because of the generosity of one fan you were able to enjoy a period of football that you would never have been able to without him, not even close. Even the subsequent years in the top flight flowed from his generosity and, more relevant in the longer haul, vision.

Abbey mate, take a chill pill - or get down the docs for some 'Californian sunshine' tablets - I think working in bandit territory has totally taken away your sense of perspective and I worry for your health.

Anyway, I've gone off topic - we'd buy them using our revenues.

COULDNT GIVE TWO HOOTS WHERE ANYONES MONEY COMES FROM.AT THE END OF THE DAY EVERY TEAM IS TRYING TO BUY SUCCESS AND YOU ON THE OTHER THREAD HAMMERED US FOR IT.

[blueboy3333]

And then what?

Still under a transfer embargo. Another player gone. Another hole to fill. Limited to loans (which are last minute business at the end of August) and free transfers (decent ones to be snapped up by other clubs).

If we are planning on using a 4 man midfield all season how are we going to do that?

Marshall-Evans-Williamson-Lowe-Conway-O'Sullivan are the only ones we've got to pick from. Marshall/Lowe will probably also be used at right back at times given Henley's injury record. Lowe isn't back from his injury yet.

I still expect Paul Taylor to be given a contract at some stage. Something I'm not particularly enthused by.

you've just named 6 so that's a start, then there's Lenihan if he signs. We probably need a left-winger and a CM and then we've got 2 in every position. Who/how good they'll be considering the embargo is anyone's guess but when compared to Conway, Cairney has a pretty poor return assists wise and was poor for most of last season. Would he really be that big of a miss? £3.5m is a pretty decent price.

[K-Hod]

Longsiders- the idea that you're going on about means that Liverpool and Man United would be the only teams that could ever win anything because they generate their own funds.

They were able to get so far ahead because of initial success leading to gloryhunters aplenty and then more revenue meaning without owner investment, other teams can't possibly compete....

Thus 'buying success'.

[LDRover]

You know we need a CM or 2 ...

J-Lo? Duggie reckons he's a good 'un, get some of the parachute payments splurged, everyone's a winner.

[blueboy3333]

A club that finished way behind us in the league last season and that will be competing against us next season clearly don't agree. They must think he is worth that money and that he can do a good job for them whatever position they chose to put him into.

The general policy should be to not sell any of our better players to Championship clubs. Premier League only.

Exactly, they finished a long way below us. If Cairney was that good surely there would be better teams in for him.

[OJRovers]

Seriously, after the Cardiff game I can't remember Cairney doing anything good last season. Not sure which player some people are watching. Just because he's got a fancy haircut doesn't mean he is a flair player with vision. He was an integral part of our slow, static, sideways midfield last season.

[den]

COULDNT GIVE TWO HOOTS WHERE ANYONES MONEY COMES FROM.AT THE END OF THE DAY EVERY TEAM IS TRYING TO BUY SUCCESS AND YOU ON THE OTHER THREAD HAMMERED US FOR IT.

Quite right Abbey. Every club is doing it dampest to attract as much money as possible. The fact that we did it through Jack Walker makes no difference. It's just jealousy. They would give their right hand for it to have happened to them.

[JHRover]

you've just named 6 so that's a start, then there's Lenihan if he signs. We probably need a left-winger and a CM and then we've got 2 in every position. Who/how good they'll be considering the embargo is anyone's guess but when compared to Conway, Cairney has a pretty poor return assists wise and was poor for most of last season. Would he really be that big of a miss? £3.5m is a pretty decent price.

We would have six and we would need an absolute bare minimum of eight going into the season to give us some options and back up in the event of injury. Of those mentioned the manager has already identified two - Lowe and Marshall - as in his plans for defensive cover if we get injuries there (another area we aren't exactly blessed with strength in numbers).

O'Sullivan is a good prospect but has played 2-3 senior games in the Championship. It is too early to be relying on him as a first team regular starter. Same applies to Lenighan who even if he signs on is untried at this level or in midfield.

That would then leave us with five proven midfield players. One of which is still recovering from an injury that kept him out of almost all of last season.

So I'm looking at things with a great deal of concern. Given our shocking injury record over the last two seasons it would be pure suicide to think we can make do with what we have already got at the club, and given the loans we brought in last season (Taylor & Spearing) I have little to no faith of attracting some high calibre players to fill in on a temporary basis.

We need one or two as it is following the departures of King, Taylor (x2) and Spearing. Lose Cairney as well and we are well short of what we need.

I genuinely believe that if we lose Cairney and one or both of Rhodes/Gestede then we will be in a relegation scrap next season.

Seriously, after the Cardiff game I can't remember Cairney doing anything good last season. Not sure which player some people are watching. Just because he's got a fancy haircut doesn't mean he is a flair player with vision. He was an integral part of our slow, static, sideways midfield last season.

Can you name me another player at the club with the same technical ability as him? I can't. You're also overlooking the season before this where he was our standout performer.

Look at the goals he scored against Cardiff/Norwich earlier in the season and that is what he can bring to the team. Only Marshall is capable of doing the same.

Is it our plan to rid ourselves of any attacking midfield player we've got?

[longsiders1882]

Quite right Abbey. Every club is doing it dampest to attract as much money as possible. The fact that we did it through Jack Walker makes no difference. It's just jealousy. They would give their right hand for it to have happened to them.

and my left testicle.

[blueboy3333]

I think you chose to ignore the implication (or is it inference?) in the phrase 'bought the league'. Of course all teams buy and sell players and pay their wages, the meaning of 'bought the league' relates to using money you didn't and could never generate yourselves - it is also further nuanced with an inference that the amounts were well in excess of revenues. So for example Man United didn't buy their titles, neither did Liverpool as they spent the money they generated themselves. Chelsea and City on the other hand did buy their titles, at least initially, not sure what the situation is for them today. Instead of frothing at the mouth when it is mentioned why not just accept that because of the generosity of one fan you were able to enjoy a period of football that you would never have been able to without him, not even close. Even the subsequent years in the top flight flowed from his generosity and, more relevant in the longer haul, vision.

Abbey mate, take a chill pill - or get down the docs for some 'Californian sunshine' tablets - I think working in bandit territory has totally taken away your sense of perspective and I worry for your health.

Anyway, I've gone off topic - we'd buy them using our revenues.

So now the 'Rovers bought the league' stuff has been disproved because Manure's team actually cost more than ours when we won it, you're now trying to add another level of mealy-mouthed nonsense to try and illegitimise our well-desereved and spectatular success Desperate, even for a dingle.

United are £500m in debt BTW. Should they hand their trophies back?

[chris_h]

Is it our plan to rid ourselves of any attacking midfield player we've got?

I don't think that's the plan just that a very good, unsolicited offer has come out of the blue. Too good an offer to turn down for me. Hopefully it would give us a bit of leeway to do some business and bring someone in. I say hopefully but I haven't a clue how ffp operates or, more pertinently, how the authorities get away with imposing it on us.

[adsfortheblues]

We would have six and we would need an absolute bare minimum of eight going into the season to give us some options and back up in the event of injury. Of those mentioned the manager has already identified two - Lowe and Marshall - as in his plans for defensive cover if we get injuries there (another area we aren't exactly blessed with strength in numbers).

O'Sullivan is a good prospect but has played 2-3 senior games in the Championship. It is too early to be relying on him as a first team regular starter. Same applies to Lenighan who even if he signs on is untried at this level or in midfield.

That would then leave us with five proven midfield players. One of which is still recovering from an injury that kept him out of almost all of last season.

So I'm looking at things with a great deal of concern. Given our shocking injury record over the last two seasons it would be pure suicide to think we can make do with what we have already got at the club, and given the loans we brought in last season (Taylor & Spearing) I have little to no faith of attracting some high calibre players to fill in on a temporary basis.

We need one or two as it is following the departures of King, Taylor (x2) and Spearing. Lose Cairney as well and we are well short of what we need.

I genuinely believe that if we lose Cairney and one or both of Rhodes/Gestede then we will be in a relegation scrap next season.

Can you name me another player at the club with the same technical ability as him? I can't. You're also overlooking the season before this where he was our standout performer.

Look at the goals he scored against Cardiff/Norwich earlier in the season and that is what he can bring to the team. Only Marshall is capable of doing the same.

Is it our plan to rid ourselves of any attacking midfield player we've got?

Struggling to understand what technical ability it is your talking about mate? Not being awkward with you I just don't agree. The season were he got the POTY award I was very surprised, the only reason we got anywhere near the play offs that season was because of Rhodes, Conway and Gestede.

I know he can pass the ball, but a lot of players can pass the ball, it's what he creates, as a supposed creative midfielder that counts, and he doesn't create all that much. Yes he may play out wide at times, but that's because Bowyer knows he can't play in the central midfield because he doesn't control games, which is what you want your central creative player to do.

[longsiders1882]

So now the 'Rovers bought the league' stuff has been disproved because Manure's team actually cost more than ours when we won it, you're now trying to add another level of mealy-mouthed nonsense to try and illegitimise our well-desereved and spectatular success Desperate, even for a dingle.

United are £500m in debt BTW. Should they hand their trophies back?

It's called a leveraged buy out, google it (or see this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7083750/Manchester-United-opens-window-on-murky-world-of-leveraged-buy-outs.html) - they ended up with the reverse of a benefactor owner and it has taken probably half a billion out of the club - and they still owe 500 million.

[K-Hod]

Still debt though, still Man Utd have no transfer embargo, how odd....

[chris_h]

It's called a leveraged buy out, google it (or see this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7083750/Manchester-United-opens-window-on-murky-world-of-leveraged-buy-outs.html) - they ended up with the reverse of a benefactor owner and it has taken probably half a billion out of the club - and they still owe 500 million.

I don't remember you lot objecting to 'buying success' when that New York no mark Ray Ingleby said he'd make you ' bigger than Blackburn'.

He turned out to be all mouth, so actually perfect for Burnley.

[K-Hod]

It's called a leveraged buy out, google it (or see this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7083750/Manchester-United-opens-window-on-murky-world-of-leveraged-buy-outs.html) - they ended up with the reverse of a benefactor owner and it has taken probably half a billion out of the club - and they still owe 500 million.

A bit desperate that, I'll be honest.

[longsiders1882]

I don't remember you lot objecting to 'buying success' when that New York no mark Ray Ingleby said he'd make you ' bigger than Blackburn'.

He turned out to be all mouth, so actually perfect for Burnley.

Which of 'us lot' did you ask? A moot point because, as you say, we didn't get the chance in the end to embrace it or object.

A bit desperate that, I'll be honest.

My post was desperate? - Just responding to a comment that was made about them being 500 million in debt, I could have simply said none of it is football related but that would have led to all sorts of follow on stuff so I have simply highlighted how and why they are 500 million in debt. In truth its just as wrong as what has been allowed to happen at your club but I guess those are the rules.

Apparently we are definitely after 2 CM's (so our CE has said) so expect a bid of around 750K any day now for Cairney ...

[Pedro]

I think that people criticising Cairney are missing a few of the key stats I posted up that I plucked from Squawka (they're for each 90 mins played). Namely that he wins more tackles and at a higher success rate than Evans or Lowe, which really doesn't suggest we will have more bite in midfield without him, but also this big glaring one that admittedly I did put at the bottom:

Chances Created

Team: 11.1

Cairney: 2.78

Lowe: 0.51

Williamson: 0.74

Evans: 0.69

Cairney creates more than TRIPLE the chances of any of our other central midfielders. Those stats suggest at best, we will create two less chances a game when we play one of the others in the middle. That's just under 20% less chances. And no, it isn't compensated for by tackles, as he nearly tops those too. Frankly I find that loss of chances quite frightening.

Well, Cairney plays on the wing fairly often, maybe that's got more to do with it? Ben Marshall created 1.76 per game. The only player in the team who makes more than Cairney (even though he had a bit of an off year compared to his first one) is Conway, just about, with 2.84. Cairney also has a 68.52% 'successful take on' rate, whilst both the other wingers have around 46%. Lowe 50%, Evans 57.14%. Suggesting that even if he isn't a better dribbler than the others, he is smarter at knowing when he should take someone on.

On pretty much everything I compare him to our other midfielders on, he wins, or is very close. Stats aren't everything, but when you top almost all of them, you're making a positive difference. Make no mistake, if we sell Cairney, remain embargoed (which we will without further sales), and replace him with someone of the same ilk as Evans and Lowe, we WILL suffer for it.

More than triple than the others...but that figure is still less than three.

There's some straws that need clutching.

Cairney will come good under a better, inspiring manager. Ours is rubbish.

[chaddyrovers]

Looks like Cairney has gone to Fulham according Alan Nixon.

Fee not even 3.5 million according to Alan Nixon.

Shocked and Angry by this tbh

[Al]

Speak for yourself.

I believe I do.

[JHRover]

Looks like Cairney has gone to Fulham according Alan Nixon.

Fee not even 3.5 million according to Alan Nixon.

Shocked and Angry by this tbh

Me too.

It doesn't make any sense from a footballing or financial point of view. We can't replace him, we can't spend the money, we've a small squad as it is, and £3 million or whatever it is won't impact on our losses. He wasn't even among the big earners.

The only explanation that I can understand is that Fulham have offered Cairney a huge wage rise or have said they will play him in central midfield, and that Cairney has then requested a transfer.

I can't believe any Rovers fan would be accepting or comfortable with us selling a player of Cairney's age and ability to a direct rival whilst under an embargo.

This is the clearest sign yet that all is not well behind the scenes at the club. Losing good players to rivals is alarming.

It will now be interesting to see how he fits in at Fulham. Will they play him centrally? If so then why couldn't we?

I'll be awaiting the clubs/Bowyer's explanation for this. Probably the best we'll get is a few lines hidden away on the website and then Bowyer in the Telegraph bemoaning our pauper status and how we cannot hope to compete with powerhouses like 16th placed Fulham. Its boring.

Lose Rhodes or Gestede or even worse both and its League One time.

[Al]

The source where the news come from is (in my opinion) solid.

If I post too much specifics about it then it wouldnt be fair to the source...

Sorry its vague and some might not appreciate that but just trying to pass on info...

Here we go again!

[Rover_Shaun]

Looks like Cairney has gone to Fulham according Alan Nixon.

Fee not even 3.5 million according to Alan Nixon.

Shocked and Angry by this tbh

Is this Nixon's 1 in 50?

All those shocked are forgetting Bowyers delusional "We have strength of depth in all areas" LET ramblings. He will hosestly think we can cope. Especially with Diego Lowe raring to go.