[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 2

[JHRover]

There's a reason why O'Hara was playing on a short term contract at Blackpool last season. There's a reason why he's only played about 50 games in 5 years.

He's not as good as Cairney and is almost six years older.

Fulham know this.

I admire some people's optimism about the situation, but this is downgrading whilst strengthening a rival. A recipe for disaster.

[JayPeeBee40]

O hara has a cracking left(I think) foot, excellent on set pieces, shooting and creating..

There's a reason why O'Hara was playing on a short term contract at Blackpool last season. There's a reason why he's only played about 50 games in 5 years.

He's not as good as Cairney and is almost six years older.

Fulham know this.

I admire some people's optimism about the situation, but this is downgrading whilst strengthening a rival. A recipe for disaster.

People are being optimistic because what good does moaning do?

[matt83]

These last few pages of transfer rumours make grim reading. If we lose all of Gestede, Rhodes, king, Marshall, cairney then that's very worrying especially being linked to very ordinary incomings.

If all that does happen forget playoffs we'll struggle massively with no goals, assists or pace in the side plus add our defensive ineptitude doesn't bare thinking about.

Ironically it'll make the need for a better manager even more important because if bowyer can get a decent group playing down to average then Christ knows what he'll do with an average group.

[tomphil]

But surely the debts to purchase the shares aren't against the club - so placing in administration would still leave them with debts for shares that were worthless ?

Who knows, anything is possible with this lot. They've managed to turn a 50 mill per annum operation into an almost worthless one and it doesn't seem to unduly bother them. Whatever their business assets, debts their own cash pile will be protected and if it all went boom they'd still be eating fine food instead of boiled rice every night. It's how these things work.

[bluebruce]

Exactly: 'can'. How often 'did' he?

2.78 times a game. More than anybody except Conway, who did it roughly the same. As I keep telling people.

[mustard]

O'Hara was decent a good few years back. Now he's woefully unfit and injury prone, so maybe he would be more suited to Bowyer's plans.

"Look at all the injuries. Bad luck. Embargo. Honest bunch. Right good go. Boo hoo."

[AllRoverAsia]

Has it been confirmed yet, cairney's departure? Even if so, that's only 1 player sold as of yet. We all know gestede is going anyway, so no point moaning when that happens. If Rhodes goes too, then is the time to be kicking off..

fair comment - from what I can see it's still in the bidding stage.

[tomphil]

Well this transfer window is working out badly. We've lost our main striking pace and now what little creativity we had. If one or both of our scorers go well whatever happens happens. Maybe just maybe GB has cheaper and better options lined up ...... I am not holding my breath.

Why do I get the impression that there is a fire sale taking place down Ewood way?

Edit: typed before I saw Kamy's post - is it possible for a manager to be on a % of outgoing fees?

Be careful saying that or you'll get one or two t@ts on here accusing you of slander but yes it could be possible, I think coco was. Not unusual in football either as everyone wants a slice of the action. Just remember the player babbing about a manager taking cash back handers from certain players to play them every week. Also I think it was redknapp or someone who said it's common practice for a manager to have it in his contract that if he signs a player and plays him (develops they'll say) then if he turns into a player worth big money then they should get a slice.

Not saying for one second that is the case under Bowyer but I'm certain it has been at Rovers and it happens all over football.

[T J Hooker]

I wouldn't be at all suprised to see cairney score around 10 this season and finish top 4 with fulham

[AndyNeil]

Don't think Rovers' Trust have either the financial clout or gravitas to make a purchase.

Its not very often I agree with MM, but here I do 100%. There is no way on this earth that the Rovers Trust could buy the club using the money from fans only and can you imagine the scramble for power if they did! Would you want the people 'running' the Rovers Trust to run the club?!?!

The only people who will buy the club is either some mega rich fan who is prepared to take it on lock, stock and barrel or a group of investors who would want a return on their investment at some point. God knows what could happen over the 12 months or so if Venkys decide to pull the plug, but if they do it is critical for the very future of the club that whoever comes in makes the correct decisions both on and off the field for the benefit of the club and not for the benefit of those who have come in post Venkys with their own interests/agendas.

I may be totally wrong, but I cant help feel that certain people involved in another club close by and also involved with the Rovers Trust could be waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces should we enter administration.

[T J Hooker]

I also wouldnt be suprisef to see dunn have a good end to his career with bolton if that goes through.

[RevidgeBlue]

Still a bit bemused by the amount of hand wringing over Carney's likely departure.

I still can't get away from the fact that he was extremely poor last season, so what are we getting so upset about? There is a chance TC will play better under a manager who appreciates his talents more but I basically agree with Parson's assessment that Cairney lacks heart and another who said he's more interested in checking how his hair looks than putting in a tackle.

Kamy has also said that (despite the dire financial situation no player is sold unless GB is OK with it which is the way it should be and indicative of the fact that it is more of a footb all decision and the manager not rating him as indispensable as opposed to evidence of an imminent meltdown.

If anyone wants to pay up to 3.5m for Marshall as well I say bring it on. Him and TC are only capable of or prepared to put in a shift a dozen times a season between them on last year's evidence. Let's see what Lenihan and O Sullivan can do. What we don't want to see is TC'S place in the squad being taken by more dollop sign them purely for the sake of it journeymen like Brown Varney or Paul Taylor.

[den]

The worry Rev, is who's going to replace him. Someone who costs nothing and comes on cheap wages that's who.

[Amo]

Still a bit bemused by the amount of hand wringing over Carney's likely departure.

I still can't get away from the fact that he was extremely poor last season, so what are we getting so upset about? There is a chance TC will play better under a manager who appreciates his talents more but I basically agree with Parson's assessment that Cairney lacks heart and another who said he's more interested in checking how his hair looks than putting in a tackle.

Kamy has also said that (despite the dire financial situation no player is sold unless GB is OK with it which is the way it should be and indicative of the fact that it is more of a footb all decision and the manager not rating him as indispensable as opposed to evidence of an imminent meltdown.

If anyone wants to pay up to 3.5m for Marshall as well I say bring it on. Him and TC are only capable of or prepared to put in a shift a dozen times a season between them on last year's evidence. Let's see what Lenihan and O Sullivan can do. What we don't want to see is TC'S place in the squad being taken by more dollop sign them purely for the sake of it journeymen like Brown Varney or Paul Taylor.

You've answered your own question.

Cairney was off form last season but the guy undeniably has talent. With the embargo in place, it's difficult to see how we're going to attract anyone better.

[Gav]

Just on Cairney, he was in the main awful last season, couldn't even pass the ball to a team mate let alone show creative ability and score goals. I’d even go as far as to say he lacked a footballing brain, couldn’t do the simple things right, but did have the odd spark of quality i must admit.

I’d prefer not to sell him for the reasons already stated, mainly who is going to replace him, but lets not get all ‘Rochina’ here, he was hardly a world beater was he.

[RevidgeBlue]

You've answered your own question.Cairney was off form last season but the guy undeniably has talent. With the embargo in place, it's difficult to see how we're going to attract anyone better.

Fair points from you and Den but the likes of Cairney, Marshall (and King) were part of a formula that didn't work last season. 6 game a season performers the lot of them. Now fair enough, that may primarily be down to the manager being poor and unable to motivate the players properly. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating when we see how King and Cairney perform under different managers.

Like I say, I'd rather see the youngsters given their chance. In TC'S case I'd say it's not like we were losing Damien Johnson let alone Damien Duff. Taken in isolation I don't see it as that much of a problem.

[tomphil]

If we can take a crumb of comfort from Rovers being linked with O'Hara it's that maybe it shows they've finally realised the middle needs beefing up. The guy has a bit of bite about him if nothing else, not that I'd be after him like.

[AllRoverAsia]

If Cairney is off to Fulham I do believe he will prosper and show GB to be the plank quite a few of us know him to be. GB can't handle talent.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I suppose bottom line - Cairney was part of a team that finished mid-table. Many on here agree that Cairney struggles in a 4 man midfield - think placing him on the right wasn't ideal, but a way of getting him in the team. Even in the few matches he played in a 5-man midfield can't really say he excelled.

So - for me - won't greatly weaken the team, and may actually make it more effective if we end up with a winger on the right. But, as with Rochina, can't help but look back and wonder what might have been. Wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised to see him do well at Fulham - especially as we will only see highlights and not the frequent mistakes he made last season. But overall the team may end up better if he can be replaced by a winger with genuine pace (easier said than done - but impossible without freeing up his space in the squad - good ole FFP)

If Cairney is off to Fulham I do believe he will prosper and show GB to be the plank quite a few of us know him to be. GB can't handle talent.

So the first season under GB he was player of the season - strange if GB can't handle talent ? Not saying he can btw - but Cairney doesn't prove the argument one way of the other.

[Amo]

Fair points from you and Den but the likes of Cairney, Marshall (and King) were part of a formula that didn't work last season. 6 game a season performers the lot of them. Now fair enough, that may primarily be down to the manager being poor and unable to motivate the players properly. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating when we see how King and Cairney perform under different managers.

I think that's exactly what it was, Rev (the Bowyer effect). A good manager knows how to build a team that's stronger than the sum of its parts. Burnley didn't have a bunch of 'world beaters' when they went up, but they were highly competitive and everyone knew their role. And that's in no small part due to the manager.

Like I say, I'd rather see the youngsters given their chance. In TC'S case I'd say it's not like we were losing Damien Johnson let alone Damien Duff.

Of course, having Duff, Dunn, Thompson, Tugay softened the blow...

Taken in isolation I don't see it as that much of a problem.

Taken out of context, nothing looks that bad. Now consider that we're unable to buy anyone, we have a wage cap, and the message this sends out to the rest of the squad. Doesn't look so rosy now, does it?

[AllRoverAsia]

So the first season under GB he was player of the season - strange if GB can't handle talent ? Not saying he can btw - but Cairney doesn't prove the argument one way of the other.

Maybe first season was Cairney's natural talent? I don't know tbh and I have to say if we get the figures being mentioned then off u go. Still a shame to see a footballer shown the door, although from what I saw on RP last year he did lack a bit of b alls at times. Sounds evasive - not meant to be but I'm scared that we are getting into the start of a big asset sale - players first.

[Blue blood]

Bitter blow losing Cairney imo.

1) We can't get anyone better, especially with a wage cap and no fee allowed. The golden rule of transfers is don't sell unless you have to or it benefits you - say you can replace with same or better quality, or the money would go to strengthening other areas. We don't have to sell Cairney and we won't replace with like-for-like quality - so why sell him.

2) Potential - everyone agrees there's loads. Chances of getting someone with just as much potential is slim, so getting rid of someone we know has the potential to be very good (for this level) seems daft. Surely it's better to invest energy into getting out potential we know is there as oppose for scouting about for some potential - which we haven't seen in any of Bowyer's recent buys. Given we want to get promoted surely trying to harness that potential would be a key strategy to getting promoted, especially as we're restricted to who we can bring in.

3) On that, assuming we got the potential out of him, how much would he be worth. £3.5m is a good fee now, but a developed Cairney could fetch at least twice that. Not a guarantee but a risk definitely worth taking.

4) We can't spend the money. Full stop. So we're essentially losing a player for free.

5) We have few creative options as it is - less now Dunn has also gone. So it's not like we're getting rid of one midfield workhorse - of which we have many. We're definitely weakening the squad in terms of creativity. We saw how much damage was done by limited pace last season. With Cairney and Dunn gone, we're getting worryingly low on creativity as well - only Marshall remains.

6) We're stupidly short on wide players. Regardless of our view, that's where Bowyer plays him. But with King and now Cairney gone we're getting low on players to play out wide. Conway. Marshall, possibly Olsson who else? Bare in mind Marshall's also covering right back, as is Lowe - so one of them there minus Cairney could make us short in the middle too.

7) Bowyer said promotion is the aim, we know promotion is the only way to get out of our plight - so how does releasing a key player from the team (look at how many games he played, GB clearly sees him as a key first teamer) help us with that. How does strengthening a rival?

I do wonder where the sense in selling him is. Even those saying he's not that good etc. must be worried as we won't get someone better in - so even swapping an average player for a weaker one is going backwards.

I bet Bowyer is delighted though. More evidence of how he can turn players to a profit and therefore justify staying in the role.

[K-Hod]

For those saying he's soft- didn't the stats show that he put more tackles in thany any of our other CMs?

[AllRoverAsia]

Good post Blue Blood

For those saying he's soft- didn't the stats show that he put more tackles in thany any of our other CMs?

Yes they did, and thx for pointing that out.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I also wouldnt be suprisef to see dunn have a good end to his career with bolton if that goes through.

From a Bolton website he hasn't made more than 30 appearances in a season since 2007-8 - so it would appear history is against him.