[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 2

[Mani]

Do you expect him to sign?

Looks that way mate...and considering our predicament it's probably as good a signing as we could hope for. Like I said, there are clubs and managers around us who are not under FFP and have not got a clue.

In terms of my 'bought and sold' comment...absolutely!! In order to buy cheap and sell big you have to find the right players, buy them cheap, coach them, give them confidence and have relative success....if you regularly buy cheap and sell high then you're doing something right IMO...to do this during an embargo would be nothing short of a miracle.

[blueboy3333]

I'm struggling to see why the possible signing of Maguire has any relevance to Ben Marshall's position at the club. Maguire is more likely to be a replacement for King.

I would be reasonably pleased if we were to get Maguire. He seems to have a decent record at Sheffield and their supporters are by and large disappointed he is leaving them. He's also a good age with a few years left in the tank.

Selling Cairney to Fulham was a ridiculous thing to do given our current predicament. I think that the manager has done his best to voice his anger at the transfer.

Sell any more of our better players to league rivals and we might as well give up. Premier league or they stay.

it might not but they play in the same positions, Marshall has been linked with the likes of Sheff W and WBA in the last 12 months, we need the money and Kamy recently said Marshall was on of those that could be possibly leaving on the Frantic Elevator (one for the Mick Hucknall fans) very soon. I'd imagine King leaving will have no bearing on whether Marshall does one, just as it didn't have any bearing on Cairney leaving.

Looks that way mate...and considering our predicament it's probably as good a signing as we could hope for. Like I said, there are clubs and managers around us who are not under FFP and have not got a clue.

In terms of my 'bought and sold' comment...absolutely!! In order to buy cheap and sell big you have to find the right players, buy them cheap, coach them, give them confidence and have relative success....if you regularly buy cheap and sell high then you're doing something right IMO...to do this during an embargo would be nothing short of a miracle.

spot on, and it's vital we have a manager who can do it, which fortunately we do.

[Swanson]

I see that we wanted to sign Maguire back in 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1349470/Blackburn-lead-chase-Aberdeen-striker-Chris-Maguire.html

[Stuart]

The expected arrival of maguire who will provide cover out wide, in the hole and up front is yet another example of Gaz's ability in the market...I have been his biggest critic in many ways but I honestly don't think there's another manager in that division who's bought as well as him in terms of values bought and sold...Lennon just signed Madine from Sheff Wed and watched Maguire walk past him!! Now that is scandalous!

I agree entirely. As chief scout he would be a massive asset. What we need is someone in the dugout who can organise, direct and motivate them and turn them into winners on the pitch.

[Baz]

Looks that way mate...and considering our predicament it's probably as good a signing as we could hope for. Like I said, there are clubs and managers around us who are not under FFP and have not got a clue.

In terms of my 'bought and sold' comment...absolutely!! In order to buy cheap and sell big you have to find the right players, buy them cheap, coach them, give them confidence and have relative success....if you regularly buy cheap and sell high then you're doing something right IMO...to do this during an embargo would be nothing short of a miracle.

So apart from Cairney who else has Bowyer bought cheap and sold high?

Gestede is worth a lot more than what we have paid for him, but I see little else in this assertion that Bowyer is great at picking players.

[den]

By the way, Rovers are a selling club as they have always been. We buy reasonably cheap and sell at the high prices, Its good business sense not matter what league you are in. Look at Southampton, look at burnley over recent times, they survived selling their best and improvwe

Explain to me what good business sense was behind selling Cairney, when the money cant be put back on the park?

Can't believe you think selling your best players actually improves the team 1864. That's what we've been doing since Venkys arrived 5 years ago. It's what we did for the entire time we spent in the lower leagues. It's WHY we were in the lower leagues.

There are times when you HAVE to sell a top player, that will always be the case, but what we're seeing here is a POLICY based on selling players. Oh, and Burnley got into the PL not because they sold all their best players, but because they found a capable manager.

[JHRover]

Selling your better players is great if all you are bothered about are pounds, pence and numbers on a balance sheet. Unfortunately in todays age of money dominated football it will be very difficult if not impossible to progress or be successful if the clubs primary concern is to cash in one its best players every summer.

There are obviously some transfers that the club will be virtually powerless to resist. If a Premier League club wants any of our players then the chances are that it will happen. Nobody could complain about that.

However, as we saw with the Cairney sale, if you then extend the 'cashing in' mentality to rival clubs, clubs who you need to be finishing above to be successful, clubs that finished miles behind us last season, then it is a recipe for disaster.

The clubs at the top end of this division are there because they develop good squads and keep them together, and if they have to sell a player then they reinvest the proceeds into strengthening further. We can't do that. So the Cairney sale can be in no way beneficial to the club.

[Amo]

Ever thunk that maybe Marshall is just inconsistent, as opposed to the likes of Killa,Olsson and Rudy who have been very consistent under the same manager. Blaming everything on the manager is obviously very good fun though and not at all simplistic.

I remember a certain David Dunn & Matt Jansen were talented but inconsistent, and at one point about to be sold by Tony Parkes. Never underestimate the impact of a real manager.

[blueboy3333]

I remember a certain David Dunn & Matt Jansen were talented but inconsistent, and at one point about to be sold by Tony Parkes. Never underestimate the impact of a real manager.

exactly what Bowyer has achieved with Rudy, bet Cardiff are gutted they let him go.

[LDRover]

Buying cheap and selling on at a profit means sod all to us now. Get out of the embargo? Whoopy do!!! Who'll join a depleted squad shorn of all it's talent and on a downward curve? We'll have to pay next to nothing in the market to stop being embargoed again anyway!!!

Basically our sales are just servicing the debt repayments and the ONLY way out of it that doesn't involve administration is the cash injection of promotion to the Prem. Sadly that ship has long since sailed with the wrong managers appointed and owners who basically don't give a shiny sh1te.

For all those lauding the profits on these departures from the club I have one question - as a supporter of the club what do you gain from the sale of your better players?

[Gav]

Maybe they only show up 'one in three' because of the manager? Ever thunk of that?

If they showed up every week they'd be playing at a higher level.

exactly what Bowyer has achieved with Rudy, bet Cardiff are gutted they let him go.

We get a few million that we can't spend and lose a striker, brilliant!

[Amo]

If they showed up every week they'd be playing at a higher level.

Yup, 'cause we'd be promoted.

[blueboy3333]

We get a few million that we can't spend and lose a striker, brilliant!

A more accurate assessment would be '£7m for a striker that wants to leave'

[Al]

A more accurate assessment would be '£7m for a striker that wants to leave'

I think GAV's assessment makes more sense to me.

[Gav]

A more accurate assessment would be '£7m for a striker that wants to leave'

I don't think that was the point being made blueboy.

You can't defend everything the manager and club do, you need balance and an objective view.

It seems yourself and the likes of Jbizzle have backed yourself so far into a corner that you've lost all perspective on our current plight.

Its more important for you to defend your position rather than have a balanced view.

I'm not having a pop at you, just saying it how I see it.

7m is good business for a striker that cost nowt, he wants to leave so he goes, but the money WILL NOT be reinvested which makes the side much weaker. With the departure of Cairney and possibly Rhodes we find ourselves looking at survival in the coming season, but Venkys will collected 15/20m in the process

Are you happy with that?

[JBiz]

It seems yourself and the likes of Jbizzle have backed yourself so far into a corner that you've lost all perspective on our current plight.

Its more important for you to defend your position rather than have a balanced view.

?

Why name drop me Gav? End of the day I don't really mind whether people disagree or agree, I only say what I think.

I also don't see it as defending/attacking like many others do, so please refrain from making judgements like this above. What matters is what happens to the club, not who was right or wrong. I have many fans who hated every single minute of big sams tenure, and whilst I had a huge dose of dread when he left- do you think I'd take pleasure in remind those that rejoiced?

Not at all. The point you make about Venkys pocketing the money is only applicable if they sell up at leave- something you're asking for. This would also involve the sale of every single asset and they still wouldn't get their all of their "gift loan" back,

If they stay, the money goes to wages, running costs and pay offs. I think only the most paranoid could think Venkys have made money out of this club in anyway or form.

[Gav]

Why name drop me Gav? End of the day I don't really mind whether people disagree or agree, I only say what I think.

I also don't see it as defending/attacking like many others do, so please refrain from making judgements like this above. What matters is what happens to the club, not who was right or wrong. I have many fans who hated every single minute of big sams tenure, and whilst I had a huge dose of dread when he left- do you think I'd take pleasure in remind those that rejoiced?

Not at all. The point you make about Venkys pocketing the money is only applicable if they sell up at leave- something you're asking for. This would also involve the sale of every single asset and they still wouldn't get their all of their "gift loan" back,

If they stay, the money goes to wages, running costs and pay offs. I think only the most paranoid could think Venkys have made money out of this club in anyway or form.

I name checked you because I was hoping you'd be grown up enough to debate the subject, but you've already started down the defensive route so I doubt this will go far.

You had a sneaky pop at me a few weeks back when discussing Bowyer, you'd clearly forgotten how I backed Bowyer alongside you for a year or more, this clearly showed to me that you either had the memory of a gold fish or you'd simply been blinded by defending your position at all costs.

I'm not going to enter into an argument with you because thats where this is heading. You need to learn how to be objective, that’ll come with age and experience.

I'm only saying what I think also

[JBiz]

I name checked you because I was hoping you'd be grown up enough to debate the subject, but you've already started down the defensive route so I doubt this will go far.

You had a sneaky pop at me a few weeks back when discussing Bowyer, you'd clearly forgotten how I backed Bowyer alongside you for a year or more, this clearly showed to me that you either had the memory of a gold fish or you'd simply been blinded by defending your position at all costs.

I'm not going to enter into an argument with you because thats where this is heading. You need to learn how to be objective, thatll come with age and experience.

I'm only saying what I think also

You are welcome to you're opinion about what is best for the club, but I'm not really keen on being labelled as a type of poster, or having my opinion grouped with those you see as defending a view point. Also, no need to be so patronising in terms of the age/maturity. I think we both know that's not exactly fair, or true- especially if you compared my content to posters who repeat the same one line petty put downs over and over.

If I don't see it as defending/attacking the club, players, manager etc- why would I see it as "backed bowyer alongside"? I don't have any problem debating with people of complete opposite views, just like I don't have more of an affinity for those who agree with parts of what I think. If I had a pop- I apologise, the amount of posts I still delete is ridiculous, whilst some still get past self moderation.

Now, like you say- let's not divert the topic any further!

[den]

Buying cheap and selling on at a profit means sod all to us now. Get out of the embargo? Whoopy do!!! Who'll join a depleted squad shorn of all it's talent and on a downward curve? We'll have to pay next to nothing in the market to stop being embargoed again anyway!!!

Basically our sales are just servicing the debt repayments and the ONLY way out of it that doesn't involve administration is the cash injection of promotion to the Prem. Sadly that ship has long since sailed with the wrong managers appointed and owners who basically don't give a shiny sh1te.

For all those lauding the profits on these departures from the club I have one question - as a supporter of the club what do you gain from the sale of your better players?

I swear some fans would have sold Clayton and Douglas - depriving us of two fantastic players - because "it's the way forward for a club like ours and that's what we've always done".

[tomphil]

What would have happened if Rovers had sold Garner to Halifax in the 80's when they were so desperate for money they couldn't pay the phone bill. Or Sellars late 80's ?

[Darmond]

.

[den]

Anyone capable of explaining why Venkys saw fit to sell Cairney against the wishes of the manager? For the life of me, I don't understand it. I could have understood Bowyer selling him if he believed he could have got better in, - but the owners taking that sale on by theirselves.........

what does that say to the fans on here? Why have they done it?

[Al]

Anyone capable of explaining why Venkys saw fit to sell Cairney against the wishes of the manager? For the life of me, I don't understand it. I could have understood Bowyer selling him if he believed he could have got better in, - but the owners taking that sale on by theirselves.........

what does that say to the fans on here? Why have they done it?

The only way it makes sense is that the Venkys want as much of their money back as they can get.

[blueboy3333]

I don't think that was the point being made blueboy.

You can't defend everything the manager and club do, you need balance and an objective view.

It seems yourself and the likes of Jbizzle have backed yourself so far into a corner that you've lost all perspective on our current plight.

Its more important for you to defend your position rather than have a balanced view.

I'm not having a pop at you, just saying it how I see it.

7m is good business for a striker that cost nowt, he wants to leave so he goes, but the money WILL NOT be reinvested which makes the side much weaker. With the departure of Cairney and possibly Rhodes we find ourselves looking at survival in the coming season, but Venkys will collected 15/20m in the process

Are you happy with that?

i appreciate you're not having a pop but just for the record i genuinly couldn't give a toss if someone agrees with me or not, or if i appear to have backed myself into a corner, or if i get things 'wrong'. That only applies to people who think they are right about everything and specialise in the 'told you so' posts that are popular on here. I've been wrong a lot of times and i'm sure that will continue but i still believe Bowyer has done a good job, that opinion won't change, but it is my opinion and one i'm prepared to back up with a reasoned argument, rather tedious name-calling (not aimed at you).

It was only a light-hearted reply to your post anyway(hence the smiley) but if Rudy is sold then that will go some way to solving the embargo problem, which i believe is the most important thing at the moment. People say we should keep him or we won't get promoted, but they're the same people who say we'll never go up with Bowyer in charge anyway. I don't believe we'd be involved in a relegation battle if we lost just Cairney and Rudy, but if we lost Rhodes too i'd be worried.

Nobody disagrees that the last 5 years have been a nightmare but to coin a phrase i hate 'we are where we are'. Progress to me now is paying down the debt, remaining competetive in this league and getting venky's to either engage with the fans or sell up.

If they suddenly decide they want promotion at all costs and pay a top class manager to come and manage the team then fantastic, it would be a case of 'cheers Gaz you've done a good job in steadying the playing side of the club and rebuilding the squad but we've found someone better', but by better i don't mean some of the shytehawks who have been touted on here. Not being in an embargo would help attract such a manager.

As a club we're in limbo, which is very frustrating. We don't know when the owners will sell up, or even if they intend to. We don't know if the debt will be written off when they go or if there are buyers out there to cover it and keep the club operating at our present level. (New owners might indulge in a fire-sale of players and assets that really would give reason for alarm). We don't know what Venky's ambitions for the club are, or if they know themselves what they want and how best to achieve it. We don't know how many players we have to sell or when we will exit the embargo. And then we have our board of directors, the least said about them the better.

So it's a perfect storm really, heavy debts/losses, absentee owners, a useless/puppet board, clubs that want our players, an embargo that means we can't really replace them and a relatively new manager expected to gain promotion whilst having to slash the wage bill.

The constant criticism of Bowyer is what really @#/? me off. The simple fact is he's the only one who sticks his head above the parapet and by default has become the figurehead for a dysfunctional club/five-year disaster that was none of his making. The cowards that own the club and the cowards that sit on our board/are in charge of Comms should do a lot more than sit back and let Bowyer take all the flak. He's the only decent thing that's happened to this club in the last five years and if he hadn't been employed when he did then i'd hate to think what division we'd be in. For that reason i can overlook the dull football and cliched/dull interviews, because i remember what a corrupt, gutless football club/team BRFC had become before he took over.

Is that balanced enough?

[glen9mullan]

When the likes of Manchester United , Arsenal , Liverpool come calling for your players ,

Then sadly we become a selling a club as these are massive clubs with massive support and plenty of cash . It offers the player a massive step up .

However when FULHAM , yes FULHAM come calling , surely anyone with half a brain wouldn't be as quick to take the money? Bar knocking a bit of the debt off , we have just made a divisional rival a tad stronger on the playing side , whilst weakening our own .

This anology which Bowyer has stated a number of times how I.e United sold Ronaldo , Liverpool sold Suarez is not quite the same . They also spent that transfer money and a hell of a lot more in buying other top players for their squads .

All clubs buy , sell and trade . However Rovers trading has us now shopping at the type of shops which the likes of Oldham , Doncaster and Clubs of that stature are shopping at .

Teams like Preston will be shopping at better outlets and will probably finish higher than rovers this season .

When assessing what Bowyer is saying , take a look at where some clubs were 5 years ago and where we was . In some cases they were many divisions below us , in some cases those teams are now either in our division or some are in Premiership .

The worst thing though , we can't compete in the transfer market for the type of players which 6 years ago we would of laughed if we were getting linked with them .

We are well and truly in the reject bin and when you are shopping there , no doubt one or two will increase in value , but remember you've also paid wages for however many seasons that player has played for you . So the transfer fee minus the wages often becomes very small