[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 2

[blueboy3333]

I love that that has to be an 'aside' in a thread titled transfer talk, whilst everybody goes on at enormous length about entirely different topics that have entirely different threads. I get that not much is happening transfer wise, and that topics flow from one to another in a natural discourse, but there's an aggravating amount of digression here lately.

So I might as well add my own briefly. Some of us (myself included) have rated Grayson for a long time. It wouldn't be the first time I've championed him for manager on this board. Would certainly swap Bowyer for him tomorrow.

Grayson is a good manager but it's a stretch to say he'd get us out of this league and that seems to be the overriding reason for getting rid of Bowyer.

[Bucksrover]

In fairness Henley has looked ready for a long time but rarely got the chance and Olsson wouldn't have got a look in had Spurr not been inured

He even dropped Olsson for Spurr later in the season who then played awful

Agreed - I hope Olsson is our first choice left back.

Get the feeling spurr is one of bowyers favourites, but I don't think he is that great

[Stuart]

Whilst I despise the owners as much as the next man, is it not better to at least try and salvage the club and stay one level beneath the PL (rather than drop out completely and start from the conference)? Because that's the way I see it and I'm pretty sure it's why Venkys give Bowyer time despite poor results. If he continues his knack of buying cheap and selling high, whilst reducing the wage bill and avoiding relegation, then we're slowly chipping away at the debt and building more stable and foundations for the future. It's not a huge leap to imagine the owners see things that way. If he manages those three tasks and we come through the other side then the climb back to the top is as small as possible.

It's a fairly good idea in theory. But I would doubt any manager in world football to juggle those three tasks for a prolonged period of time. I have major concerns that with the dismantling of the squad and replacing them with journeymen like Coke will only end in tears. And considerably quicker than Bowyer or Venkys realise. It's a pity because I personally think with no ffp or need to slash the wage bill, Bowyer would have had us very close to promotion by now.

We aren't going to be buying anyone for another 12 months so I'm not sure how he can do this. No, we really need to keep what we have - I'd have kept Cairney - and get in someone who can get them to perform as a team on the field. IF Venkys have a plan then they should be battening down the hatches - no-one leaves this season - and we bring in an expert. If we let any other players go, then our chances disappear. How can we have any hope of staying in this division if we continue to sell our best players. As it is we are now having to write of this season and it could get worse if we sell more players this window.

I really don't agree that Bowyer could have had us close to promotion. FFP is a very recent problem that seems to have made people forget his previous lack of ability in this regard. Only on one or two occasions have we looked like we can do something in this league - that's about 44 to few.

[den]

Didn't Bowyer approval the sale? Kamy said he had been told that Bowyer had approval the sale. I also think he did aswell.

I wouldn't have sold him but he has gone now.

From the LT.......

"But Bowyer accepts the reality of why Rovers owners Venkys agreed to the shock sale of the fans favourite.

He said: Its a sad loss to lose Tom.

He was a fantastic player, a great player for us, and a cracking lad from a really good family.

We are disappointed he has left us but the offer on the table went to the owners and they accepted that."

....................

"Asked whether he expected Gestede to go, Bowyer said: In all honesty I hope he doesnt.

Thats me but if somebody meets the asking price thats clearly out of my hands".

So, Chaddy, either the owners are selling these players without agreement from the manager (which it looks like, but is not good), or Bowyer is deflecting criticism of his own actions - in other words, misleading the fans (not good either).

[Baz]

Thankfully Venkys haven't accepted many bids but I'd say Gestede, Cairney and Marshall are the big ones in terms of their worth today. (Combined £13m with an outlay of £1.5m)

I also believe that if sold we would make money on Evans, Conway Spurr and Duff...though it would probably be a few hundred grand rather than million.

But one of the best things he's done is move the inflated egos on and bring to the fore the likes of Olsson and more recently Henley and Raya..

As iv said on many occasions I have several issues with Bowyers management but under the financial constraints and egos he inherited, I don't think anyone coulda done a better job of recruitment.

Well if you can believe the media then Sheff W made a bid for Marshall for less than we paid for him, and to be frank I don't think clubs are queueing to sign any of the others you mention. So I haven't seen anything to support your assertions assertions about GBs transfer prowess.

[Stefan Hedgehog]

In fairness Henley has looked ready for a long time but rarely got the chance and Olsson wouldn't have got a look in had Spurr not been inured

He even dropped Olsson for Spurr later in the season who then played awful

when we had nothing to play for i would say tom,spurr was great in his 1st season,last season was a right off his game even playing cb the last few games,someone offers 3million for olsson we have a ready made replacement,posted elsewhere my back 5 this season is

raya

henley killa duffy olsson

[Parsonblue]

This really can't worry you that much or you would, like the rest of us, demand better than Bowyer.

It's very simple to me, it's Premier League or bust. We CANNOT hope to stay in this league for any length of time. That's because there is nothing in it for Venkys long term. We do not have 3, 4 or 5, or however many years you are up to now, to give to Bowyer to come good. Without PL income, we will be League One again. Then you can forget about Academies and Senior Training Centres

It's really not a case of wanting Venkys to leave, it's wanting them to leave on our terms and not on theirs. We need them to get interested or go. What is your hope? That they will bring down the costs to comply with FFP and pay off the debt before we leave, seek out a buyer and sell on good terms? Who would want to buy a club that they cannot invest in to promote their own interests. Are we a sleeping giant? If we are then we are currently comatose. If they leave, costs can be brought down by selling everyone for a song if necessary. The Trust that you deride so much will be the ones negotiating with the creditors and players to seek out settlements over the long term. The club going into administration will see most of the non-football creditors miss out, and we will start again. Why are you only interested in the town club providing they are a league team? Sometimes you have to start again. Look at Oxford United (ironically the club of Michael Appleton), they had to leave league football to be able to get back on the straight and narrow.

You've always said things may have to get worse before they get better. Well I agree, they may and probably will. So as we cannot trust Venkys, why shouldn't we discuss ways that we might realistically see the back of them?

So basically you are talking about following Stockport County into non-League football where they are playing the likes of Chorley and AFC Fylde. Clearly, we wouldn't be playing at Ewood, possibly ground sharing with Darwen. So that's the golden vision you have for the club post Venkys? You demand better than Bowyer but would settle for that? Fair enough, at least you have given me an answer as to what you see as the alternative to the present owners.

[Leonard Venkhater]

And then what? Please could someone explain what happens when there is no new owner on the horizon and Venkys decide to go. Who pays the wages the next day? How is the Academy funded? Who funds daily costs of the Senior Training Centre? Who funds the general day to day running costs of the club? These are serious questions but I've yet to hear any answers. Getting rid of Venkys I understand but what I don't understand is what happens next? I spoke to some Pompey fans at Stanley last season and although they had the Trust in charge there was an acceptance that League Two football would be the order of the day for some time to come. Indeed, Pompey were dreadful that day against a particularly poor Stanley side. On the evidence of what I saw on several occasions last season at Stanley, the entertainment value on the pitch can get an awful lost worse than what we have at present. Of course, geographically Portsmouth are much better suited to attract larger gates than ourselves in terms of catchment area and the fact that the only club near them is their deadly rival. I'm more than happy to see the owners go if there is a genuine alternative other than the hope that something may or may not turn up.

I say this as an angry supporter, who absolutely despises what Venky's, Anderson, Kean, Agnew and Singh have done to my beloved Blackburn Rovers.I know you have been dubbed as a defender of the indefensible(LOL), but I do think you have a point, Parson.

For me, t's not unlike the rhetoric and the drive to go to war before the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan etc All the hot talk of war and not a thought about what to do after the invasion etc

We have to get our brains into gear. What are our aims and objectives? What outcomes do we want? What are the different risks attached to different strategies etc What can we get s significant proportion of fans to sign up to?

But I can't help asking again...Are the Venky's dead yet?!

[Gav]

Do you think that Venkys will evetually pay off the debt Parson, because its only getting bigger, someone could try and service that debt if they left now, but in 12/24/36 months they don't stand a chance.

I guess I've answered my own question, you must think they will or you're clearly advocating a massive unworkable debt being lumped on to the club in 12/34/36 months time.

[chimbondapie]

So basically you are talking about following Stockport County into non-League football where they are playing the likes of Chorley and AFC Fylde. Clearly, we wouldn't be playing at Ewood, possibly ground sharing with Darwen. So that's the golden vision you have for the club post Venkys? You demand better than Bowyer but would settle for that? Fair enough, at least you have given me an answer as to what you see as the alternative to the present owners.

Your attitude stinks . Nearly 3 decades and nothing changes. God forbid people won't accept mediocrity . Actually there is some irony there.

[JHRover]

From the LT.......

"But Bowyer accepts the reality of why Rovers owners Venkys agreed to the shock sale of the fans favourite.

He said: Its a sad loss to lose Tom.

He was a fantastic player, a great player for us, and a cracking lad from a really good family.

We are disappointed he has left us but the offer on the table went to the owners and they accepted that."

....................

"Asked whether he expected Gestede to go, Bowyer said: In all honesty I hope he doesnt.

Thats me but if somebody meets the asking price thats clearly out of my hands.

So, Chaddy, either the owners are selling these players without agreement from the manager (which is not good), or Bowyer is deflecting criticism of his own actions - in other words, misleading the fans (not good either).

I think the Cairney sale and this summer in general clearly highlights why Venkys will never employ a proven successful manager at this football club.

If we had a McCarthy or someone of that ilk they would have resigned months ago. No communication from the owners, no meeting with them all summer, and now the owners seemingly happy to sell off the clubs best players to rivals without approval from the manager.

I'm not criticising Bowyer for not walking away. He probably can't afford to just quit. But a bigger name manager who didn't need the money would not have put up with this nonsense.

As you say - the Cairney situation boils down to one of two options.

He was either sold by the owners behind the managers back/without his approval - in that case the manager has every reason to be upset and many others wouldn't have put up with it - Venkys clearly aren't bothered about the manager's views/opinions.

The alternative is that Bowyer agreed to the transfer - which itself raises major questions as to why the manager would agree to such a sale with no chance of replacing him.

Either way it is very worrying. Based on what Cairney and then Bowyer has said in the media my money is on a sudden and shock deal agreed to by Venkys but not the manager and with no pushing from the player.

What I would like to know is who is advising the owners on things these days.

Over the last 2 years my understanding was that Bowyer did business directly with Mrs Desai and she got on well with him and worked well with him. This summer's antics basically blows that theory out of the water.

So who are the owners listening to now? Who told them that the Fulham offer was worth accepting for Cairney? Who is telling them to keep rejecting Watford's offer for Gestede? How are they valuing players when they know nothing about football?

[thenodrog]

I swear some fans would have sold Clayton and Douglas - depriving us of two fantastic players - because "it's the way forward for a club like ours and that's what we've always done".

It wasn't the same then. It was before the abolishment of the maximum wage.

[Stefan Hedgehog]

fans favourite cairney was blasted by the 30 posters on here,im glad we took the money.

YES I AM GLAD WE TOOK 3 MILLION FOR BOYZONE CAIRNEY.

[Stuart]

So basically you are talking about following Stockport County into non-League football where they are playing the likes of Chorley and AFC Fylde. Clearly, we wouldn't be playing at Ewood, possibly ground sharing with Darwen. So that's the golden vision you have for the club post Venkys? You demand better than Bowyer but would settle for that? Fair enough, at least you have given me an answer as to what you see as the alternative to the present owners.

Wrong. That's not what I want, Parson, it's where we are heading without urgent promotion. Shame that you can't see that. But it's rather hypocritical of you to complain about plastic PL Rovers fans when you yourself have a limit to your support. I guess that would make you a kind of hardened plastic. Perspex?

But at the end of the day should we really be so scared of that? Should we really allow ourselves to be held to ransom, to be emotionally blackmailed into putting up with these owners and the way they are treating the club and its fans?

Surely we would be better off in the long run, cleansed of the platitudes, confusion and debt? You mentioned Pompey fans earlier. Do you think those hardcore fans would swap where they are now for longer with Gaydamak? Another season under him could have ended them permanently. Like prolonged exposure to Venkys could do for us.

Fair enough though, at least we know not to count on you when the balloon goes up.

[Gav]

fans favourite cairney was blasted by the 30 posters on here,im glad we took the money.

YES I AM GLAD WE TOOK 3 MILLION FOR BOYZONE CAIRNEY.

It just seems a strange move to sell a player to a rival when you have no realistic chance of replacing him like for like.

I'm sure I recognise you're posting style, have you been on here before

[den]

It wasn't the same then. It was before the abolishment of the maximum wage.

I know that. But there is a viewpoint that buying cheap then selling players when a profit can be made is good for BRFC.

[Parsonblue]

I say this as an angry supporter, who absolutely despises what Venky's, Anderson, Kean, Agnew and Singh have done to my beloved Blackburn Rovers.I know you have been dubbed as a defender of the indefensible(LOL), but I do think you have a point, Parson.

For me, t's not unlike the rhetoric and the drive to go to war before the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan etc All the hot talk of war and not a thought about what to do after the invasion etc

We have to get our brains into gear. What are our aims and objectives? What outcomes do we want? What are the different risks attached to different strategies etc What can we get s significant proportion of fans to sign up to?

But I can't help asking again...Are the Venky's dead yet?!

That's my point Leonard. Getting rid of Venkys might be thought of as stage one and I think there is universal agreement that no tears will be shed when they go. However, stage two - what replaces them - is very unclear.

Do you think that Venkys will evetually pay off the debt Parson, because its only getting bigger, someone could try and service that debt if they left now, but in 12/24/36 months they don't stand a chance.

I guess I've answered my own question, you must think they will or you're clearly advocating a massive unworkable debt being lumped on to the club in 12/34/36 months time.

I haven't a clue what Venkys will do Gav and neither has anyone on here. Everything they have done so far has been illogical so it's impossible to guess what their end game may be.

[den]

I think the Cairney sale and this summer in general clearly highlights why Venkys will never employ a proven successful manager at this football club.

If we had a McCarthy or someone of that ilk they would have resigned months ago. No communication from the owners, no meeting with them all summer, and now the owners seemingly happy to sell off the clubs best players to rivals without approval from the manager.

I'm not criticising Bowyer for not walking away. He probably can't afford to just quit. But a bigger name manager who didn't need the money would not have put up with this nonsense.

As you say - the Cairney situation boils down to one of two options.

He was either sold by the owners behind the managers back/without his approval - in that case the manager has every reason to be upset and many others wouldn't have put up with it - Venkys clearly aren't bothered about the manager's views/opinions.

The alternative is that Bowyer agreed to the transfer - which itself raises major questions as to why the manager would agree to such a sale with no chance of replacing him.

Either way it is very worrying. Based on what Cairney and then Bowyer has said in the media my money is on a sudden and shock deal agreed to by Venkys but not the manager and with no pushing from the player.

What I would like to know is who is advising the owners on things these days.

Over the last 2 years my understanding was that Bowyer did business directly with Mrs Desai and she got on well with him and worked well with him. This summer's antics basically blows that theory out of the water.

So who are the owners listening to now? Who told them that the Fulham offer was worth accepting for Cairney? Who is telling them to keep rejecting Watford's offer for Gestede? How are they valuing players when they know nothing about football?

+1

[Athlete]

Reading that post Glen, it really brings home how far we've fallen. Preston may outdo us this season, Bumley almost certainly will.

Are we really not allowed to expect more than that?

Unfortunately not now it seems

[47er]

If we want to get out of this transfer embargo do we not have show that we are trying to cut costs? So selling a player for close to 3 million will go a little way to doing that?

That is just me trying to make sense of it.

I don't know how FFP works but I don't see any other reason why Venky's would sell now and not before.

Trying to make sense of Venkys? Good luck with that!

Trying to make excuses for them possibly?

[Gav]

I haven't a clue what Venkys will do Gav and neither has anyone on here. Everything they have done so far has been illogical so it's impossible to guess what their end game may be.

They've been in cost cutting mode from day one, its fair to assume they'll not be willing to pay off this debt, its also fare to say if thats the case the longer this goes on the more likely that the club will fold.

Anyway wrong thread, sorry for going off topic.

[den]

I am amazed at the out cry over Cairney - would I have sold him - no - but I don't know all the facts

It's not the fact that it's Cairney, it's more the process that saw him sold that is worrying. I certainly thought he was overrated, but he was a regular member of the starting line up. We now have to find a replacement which will still cost money - meaning that the effect on debt or FFP will be absolutely minimal, or just do without anyone else. I don't understand what the thinking is.

[Baz]

I haven't a clue what Venkys will do Gav and neither has anyone on here. Everything they have done so far has been illogical so it's impossible to guess what their end game may be.

What they have done is illogical (financially), but not particularly random. They are continually trying to reduce costs and have done since taking over.

[Mani]

What they have done is illogical (financially), but not particularly random. They are continually trying to reduce costs and have done since taking over.

Sorry?....Reduce costs??? That is one of the most obscure things iv ever read. Mate, they've literally ploughed Miliions in...and woulda continued to do so but for FFP! They are so frivolous with money it's untrue!!

[Stefan Hedgehog]

They've been in cost cutting mode from day one, its fair to assume they'll not be willing to pay off this debt, its also fare to say if thats the case the longer this goes on the more likely that the club will fold.

Anyway wrong thread, sorry for going off topic.

thats not true,flooking anderson took them to the cleaners and there reign is now in defensive mode,who allowed the murphy and dicko from foolham wanted shooting