[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 2

[ABBEY]

Abbey, I have posted my views on Cairney sale and Yes I am of the opinion that Bowyer did approval the sale.

Also you may want to check the twitter convo between me, Kamy and Savio. Will answer your questions.

So Abbey please leave me alone now. Why not talk about something different like possible transfers in for Example.

Transfers oh ..

So who is in land of make believe them ?

[Athlete]

Transfers oh ..

So who is in land of make believe them ?

Well no sign of any incomings unless big Tom will sign from the dog and duck for peanuts

So we'll wait for loans who hopefully the parent club will fund the wages

No in all seriousness we need a clean sweep starting with Venky's

[Parsonblue]

"Approved" the sale Chaddy, or "accepted" Venkys decision to sell? They're quite different.

Totally agree with that den. Ultimately, at any club, the owner decides when a fee is acceptable or not. They may well consult the manager but the final decision always rests with the owner.

[McClarky]

What a summer! 9 weeks in and 262 pages of chat on here and not 1 story, other than some general speculation, about us bringing anyone in. We are looking at the scraps discarded by teams in Div 3 and 4 and don't seem to have a proper scouting network which is probably the most important thing a club could have when they are under an embargo. With Rudi and Rhodes I can see maintaining a mid-table position, although lower than last year, but if 1 of them goes or is injured we're going to really struggle. If neither is available we can forget it.

We're doomed I tell thi!

[RevidgeBlue]

To be fair to Chaddy if GB is genuinely upset by the sale of Cairney then he is doing a very good job of hiding it. I suspect he was asked for his views on the potential sale by the owners and replied that whilst he would prefer to keep TC, he only made a fairly peripheral impact last season and that his loss wouldn't be anywhere near as devastating a loss to the team as Rhodes or Gestede.

At which point the owners decided to sell at that price. I believe GB is trying to cover his backside with the fans upset by the sale with his recent comments.

[USABlue]

One of the reasons malky was sacked by Cardiff was allegations of transfer corruption which couldn't be proved by Tan etc the texts broke the camels back so to speak as he was sacked previously then reinstated then kept away from the club months before the actual sacking

Do you honestly believe they sacked their most successful manager for donkeys years over a few texts.. No me neither

The Wigan move was a disaster all his best players sold beyond his control and some before his tenure and third rate loan players brought in

Anyway back on track the LT interview confirms GB isn't in charge of transfers or he's very shrewd by deflecting any blame from himself but by doing that he'd be playing a dodgy game if the owners were taking advice and possibly thinking of replacing him of which I don't think that's the case as the Rao's aren't interested in the good of BRFC so 100% it has to be GB isn't in control of transfers

But hey chaddyrovers heard a different interview

I too think the interview is not proof Bowyer has no say so. To me it can be interpreted either way if you choose. It is easy to read from it that Bowyer has no say so. I think Bowyer was ok with the Cairney deal, no he does not say so but he does mot say he wasn't either. Some typical fluff about mot wanting to sell anyone blah blah blah.

For me to buy in to what most on here are believing I'd have to hear GB say skmethjng a little more direct.

Totally agree with that den. Ultimately, at any club, the owner decides when a fee is acceptable or not. They may well consult the manager but the final decision always rests with the owner.

Right. However here in the land of BRFCS there has to be something more sinister at play.

[Gav]

Gary Bowyer has stated more than once that the final say on player sales is with the owners, every player has his price, so its Venkys that sell the players regardless of what Bowyer says.

[Athlete]

Gary Bowyer has stated more than once that the final say on player sales is with the owners, every player has his price, so its Venkys that sell the players regardless of what Bowyer says.

Correct Gav but certain posters on here or possible friends of gazza think differently to what GB has stated

[thenodrog]

I know that. But there is a viewpoint that buying cheap then selling players when a profit can be made is good for BRFC.

den you must know that with our meagre support base it's a fact of life and a basic necessity EVEN if we were in the Prem. We've seen loads of top players leave the club and the only time we've suffered is when we haven't replaced them adequately. Just an example Speedie was moved out to make way for Shearer and we made 12m quid on the deal.

Lets be honest even with Jack in charge Matty Holmes was never going to compare to purchasing Zidane also most would know Shearer was destined to leave but with 15m in our back sack attempting to replace him with Per Pederson was crackers. We should at that time have been looking at the likes of Robbie Keane or Thierry Henry for 5m. Buying and selling for profit is football and we know even the very big clubs cannot hang on to the likes of Suarez, Fabregas, Ronaldo De Gea etc etc can they? It's part and parcel and it should be embraced and utilised rather than preferring head in the sand tactics. Not so sure about Ronnie but we'd certainly never have hung on to Duggie for his entire career these days.

It's not the fact that it's Cairney, it's more the process that saw him sold that is worrying. I certainly thought he was overrated, but he was a regular member of the starting line up. We now have to find a replacement which will still cost money - meaning that the effect on debt or FFP will be absolutely minimal, or just do without anyone else. I don't understand what the thinking is.

Loan market surely? Rem Boro turned up Bamford and Brentford got Pritchard. Won't happen here I doubt but I'd swap either of those for any two of our midfielders.

Wow, that puts a different complexion on things.

KAMY- Does this seem right?

If the decision was taken out of Bowyers hands something has happened and the strategy has changed.

It's all about money. I doubt any manager wants to see his better players go but Managers are only hired hands who have to do as they are told remember. Their talents are on the pitch and training ground and not balancing a set of books. If they don't like it they can resign but very few can afford to be that principled.

It's more than just suspicious. It stinks, I still think their are individuals with vendettas who have "influence" in places we don't even dare consider, some high levels indeed. I fear that in my lifetime this once proud club will cease to exist. 130+ years of football history erased in half a decade. Sorry way off topic, got sucked in.

That's been my fear since Nov 2010 USA. Whats kept you?

[K-Hod]

Correct Gav but certain posters on here or possible friends of gazza think differently to what GB has stated

Seriously, nobody is Bowyer's friend on here. If you're on about Parson, I think he said he'd met him at reserve team games on a couple of occasions.

If others think differently, that's up to them, but how anyone can deny what Bowyer said in that interview is beyond me.

[thenodrog]

It couldn't be as simple as Bowyer recieving a bid for a player who in all fairness failed to push on. A good bid, he calls venks saying look we have a good offer and they tell him do it. Couldn't be that simple, that normal coud it?

That's a valid theory USA but how about this one.

"Gary...if we want to keep A.N. Other who as you know is costing over £2m pa in wages then I've been told that we need to take this offer for Tom Cairney. A.N. Other might still leave of course but we have to pay his wages somehow."

or

How about "Gestede's agent says he will only stay if we match the money that we are currently paying JR as last season he more than matched his contribution, and the bank says that we have to sell Tom to do that."

Because at the moment there are none and any there are will be totally underwhelming to all but you. And if that's bullying then cry to whoever you normally cry to because that's what you usually do.

A teacher engaging in bullying! You'll be sorry gumboots when chaddy's found hanging from the rafters!

[chaddyrovers]

The article also contains this uplifting message........

Unfortunately now Toms gone, weve got to move on and find the next one and work very hard to bring them in and make them better.

The reality is, I suppose, is that eventually one of them then will go. We have to face reality.

Surprised this article hasn't been more widely read

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/13370567.Blackburn_Rovers_boss_Gary_Bowyer_saddened_to_see_Tom_Cairney_go/?ref=mac

Seems we've finished up with multi millionnairre owners who won't put cash into the playing squad and don't have the footballing nous to run it properly either.

"Approved" the sale Chaddy, or "accepted" Venkys decision to sell? They're quite different.

Approved was the wrong word to use.

Maybe agreed with the decision is a better word.

Here is Kamy's answer to whether Bowyer approved the TC transfer

Venky's approved but crucially GB has omitted from his comments that he didn't disagree with their decision.

[gumboots]

What would be the point in his disagreeing anyway? Their club, their money. He can object as much as he wants, just as I object to a lot of things my employers have spent money on in the past, but ultimately I have no say. Should he have resigned if he really, really objected. Possibly. Depends how strongly he disagreed. What if it was put to him that if we sold cairney they'd fight tooth and nail to keep someone else and cairney was sacrificed in the interests of that?

[den]

What would be the point in his disagreeing anyway? Their club, their money. He can object as much as he wants, just as I object to a lot of things my employers have spent money on in the past, but ultimately I have no say. Should he have resigned if he really, really objected. Possibly. Depends how strongly he disagreed. What if it was put to him that if we sold cairney they'd fight tooth and nail to keep someone else and cairney was sacrificed in the interests of that?

As a one-off, it's no big deal. But, if the owners are going to continue to make the decisions of which player is going to be sold, rendering the manager basically impotent, then it's a disaster. Only time will tell.

[BigBar]

Andy Johnson on a free? i know were scraping but could be useful?? please dont hurt me..

[JHRover]

I think it is quite obvious from the way Bowyer has handled the situation since Cairney was sold that he didn't agree with the deal or want it to happen.

The fact that nobody from the club made any kind of comment or explanation for more than a week after he was sold speaks volumes. Bowyer's comments in the media last week sound to me as though the player was sold without his consultation or approval. This would fit in with the sudden and unexpected way in which the transfer came about whilst the coaching staff and players were still on their summer holidays.

I don't accept that this may be some way for the club to strengthen its chances of keeping Rhodes or Gestede. The situation with those two is no different to what it was before Cairney was sold. If a Premier League club makes enough effort to sign either of them then they will be off. The fact we have pocketed a couple of million for Cairney won't suddenly persuade Gestede to turn down a Premier League move. It won't suddenly enable the club to reject an £8 million offer for Gestede if one comes in at the end of August. Bowyer's comments last week indicate he knows Gestede won't be here much longer.

I would have much preferred it if we had sold Gestede in June and retained Cairney. Lets face it, we all know that the chances of Gestede being here in September are at best very slim. We knew in January he wanted to move to the Premier League and that Premier League clubs were interested in him. Nobody can really blame him for wanting that and nobody could blame the club for cashing in on him. Anything above £7 million is a huge profit on him and would make a serious impact on losses re. FFP.

If we had sold Gestede, pocketed the money for him, then fought tooth and nail to keep all the others then that would make sense. None of the other players have made public murmurs about wanting a move and there is no evidence any of them have been wanted in the Premier League recently.

Infact the only thing it does ensure is that other clubs now know that we are willing to cash in on our better players, even to league rivals, and so will ensure more clubs will 'try their luck' and put bids in.

So when Gestede goes, and the later that is the more damaging for the club, we will have lost 20+ goals and our most creative midfielder. One was avoidable the other wasn't.

If the owners had come out in early June with a statement of intent and made it clear that we wouldn't be doing business with rivals then the likes of Fulham and probably others still to come wouldn't have bothered trying.

[gumboots]

Not saying it's a good idea if that was what bowyer was told. Just trying to find possible ways it might have been spun. I don't think we should have sold cairney and not to Fulham certainly. The whole deal smacks of murky dealings to me, personally. I know gestede is likely to go but what about Marshall or Olsson? They're the kind of players we might need to fight to hold onto and perhaps cairneys departure makes theirs less likely. However, I can quite see that bowyers position is undermined if a sale like cairneys becomes the norm. At what point does someone say, enough is enough?

[Al]

Didn't Bowyer approval the sale? Kamy said he had been told that Bowyer had approval the sale. I also think he did aswell.

I wouldn't have sold him but he has gone now.

Listen to Bowyer's interview again Chaddy. I know it's hard to admit that you've been wrong all the time about Bowyer controlling the transfers but denying that Cairney was sold by the owners without consulting the manager is just being an ostrich or at worst telling lies. Time to admit it's madame who controls the transfers.

[G Somerset Rover]

Giles Coke is apparently training with us in addition to Furman. Anybody know much about Cokey?

Apologies if this has already been posted, playing catch up.

[Gav]

Rovers linked with Former Sheff Wed Winger Chris Maguire.

If we do sign him then he would be good signing

Just spoke to a Wednesday season ticket holder about Maquire:

"He's not the worse player I've seen, will get the odd goal, but goes missing (For months on end sometimes)"

He's also said the Coke is absolute rubbish, never a footballer, league 2 at best.

[chris_h]

Just spoke to a Wednesday season ticket holder about Maquire:

"He's not the worse player I've seen, will get the odd goal, but goes missing (For months on end sometimes)"

A good replacement for Cairney then?

[T J Hooker]

Because at the moment there are none and any there are will be total lg underwhelming to all but you. And if that's bullying then cry to whoever you normally cry to because that's what you usually do.

Please tell me thats how you speak to the school kids you teach as well hahaha, no pandering with you

[chris_h]

Listen to Bowyer's interview again Chaddy. I know it's hard to admit that you've been wrong all the time about Bowyer controlling the transfers but denying that Cairney was sold by the owners without consulting the manager is just being an ostrich or at worst telling lies. Time to admit it's madame who controls the transfers.

This more of the same bluster really, another over reaction to an over promoted manager. It reminds me a bit of 'Madamegate'. It will be something else next month.

[gumboots]

Please tell me thats how you speak to the school kids you teach as well hahaha, no pandering with you

There are times when I do, and times when I'll put a metaphorical arm round the same pupil. Depends what I think they need at the time

[thenodrog]

What a summer! 9 weeks in and 262 pages of chat on here and not 1 story, other than some general speculation, about us bringing anyone in. We are looking at the scraps discarded by teams in Div 3 and 4 and don't seem to have a proper scouting network which is probably the most important thing a club could have when they are under an embargo. With Rudi and Rhodes I can see maintaining a mid-table position, although lower than last year, but if 1 of them goes or is injured we're going to really struggle. If neither is available we can forget it.

We're doomed I tell thi!

Destined to have the best stadium in the second Div.

As a one-off, it's no big deal. But, if the owners are going to continue to make the decisions of which player is going to be sold, rendering the manager basically impotent, then it's a disaster. Only time will tell.

Well in that case it's a disaster at 91 other clubs too.