[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 2

[roverandout]

Because other clubs owners have common sense, ours have none.

[bluebruce]

Phili, from what I recall academy costs and ground costs are exempt from the FUP rules.

[ada2020]

It's not about good business, we are under a transfer embargo. If we want to get out of it we have to sell players, that's the top and bottom of it.

Personally i think the quicker we sell players the better. The longer the embargo drags on then the worse the quality of the squad will become and then we are only heading one way.

Hard to disagree with this, however, does anyone have confidence Venkys will invest ANY money into playing staff once we are out of the embargo?

Lets not forget, Rovers are costing them a pretty penny every year as it is, so I doubt they will be happy to dip into their pockets and strengthen the squad.

I cant help but feel that the quality of the squad will only go down even when out of the embargo....

[phili]

Phili, from what I recall academy costs and ground costs are exempt from the FUP rules.

It still has to be paid for and my figures included a £5m loss, but if they are exempt it gives maybe an additional £2m to be spent on wages but more likely paying down debt. It is going to be a miserable time as a supporter for the next 10-20 years unless we fluke a promotion.

Even if we are sold there is not much manoeuvring that can be done by new owners to improve things. Possibly if it is a fan group we get a few 1000 more season tickets sold but the season ticket price will have to go up.

I look around at the championship and I think as an investment the only club you are likely to be able to make a profit on would be MK Dons.

[Gav]

Hard to disagree with this, however, does anyone have confidence Venkys will invest ANY money into playing staff once we are out of the embargo?

Lets not forget, Rovers are costing them a pretty penny every year as it is, so I doubt they will be happy to dip into their pockets and strengthen the squad.

I cant help but feel that the quality of the squad will only go down even when out of the embargo....

The quality of the squad will continue to go down as will the football club until the owners leave. It simply cannot improve under them because they're clueless and still haven't got real football people doing real football jobs, its the easiest thing to make happen, but they're incapable of doing it.

They've been here 5yrs, every year things get worse and the debt increases. It doesn't matter who we bring in, or who we sell, things will simply not get any better until they leave and even then it'll be bad for a while, but at least the club will be on the mend.

[mustard]

Well income from parachutes payments halved so I would say that the loss with probably be around £20-25m again this year when the accounts are released. The reason we are being picked on is that it is only after being put under an embargo are we trying to do anything about it! Other clubs have been doing it for some time to get nearer to compliance. Also we will have lost around £85m in 3 seasons with parachute money, preventing that sort of situation is exactly why ffp has been introduced and i'm not sure why we are all complaining when we only have ourselves to blame.

We should have done the payoffs in year 1 of relegation, got back to an even keel and then pushed on in year 2 for promotion but sadly we didn't and we are likely to be a league 1 team this time next year or the year after as we will only have an income of around £8m, if we are allowed to make a £5m loss each year that will give us a budget of £13m, so pretty much anyone in our squad who is earning more than £6k per week needs to be sold/released this summer.

We should be looking at a squad of lets say 24 players, at £5k a week plus all of the other bits and pieces you have to pay that is £6m in wages plus national insurance etc and bonuses that comes to £8m or our total income. Let's now look the academy which is £2-3m to run, maintenance of ewood which is around £500k per year, other staff let's say £1.5m and I have already spend our budget before we get into transfers from other years we are paying for etc. So I think we can safely say we'll be under the embargo for the considerable future and even if it is lifted in time for next summer it does not matter because we won't be able to match the embargo rules packages to players anyway

£5k a week? Even Chris Brown is on closer to £10k. The majority of Rovers players are probably on around £8-12k pw with Rhodes on £40k and Hanley on around £20k.

[ada2020]

The quality of the squad will continue to go down as will the football club until the owners leave. It simply cannot improve under them because they're clueless and still haven't got real football people doing real football jobs, its the easiest thing to make happen, but they're incapable of doing it.

They've been here 5yrs, every year things get worse and the debt increases. It doesn't matter who we bring in, or who we sell, things will simply not get any better until they leave and even then it'll be bad for a while, but at least the club will be on the mend.

Agreed Gav.

[ptholt]

I would dearly love to know if the club has started to cut squad value on the books using the impairment tactic as mentioned in my earlier post like Fulham and Bolton have done to allow them to write back squad valuation against losses, seems a sensible tactic and others have set a precedent by using it.

Fulham wrote off 50% of their loss to impairment to stay within the rules for recorded loss by dropping neary 17 million in that column), Bolton and wolves did the same to the tune of 11m and 12m respectively, although it looks like this is only acceptable for newly relegated clubs, its certainly something we should have been doing, if not actively looking at doing now as the FA has already shown loss can be reclassified in this way without penalty as are allowing it for wolves, cardiff, fulham, bolton...

[Bucksrover]

The quality of the squad will continue to go down as will the football club until the owners leave. It simply cannot improve under them because they're clueless and still haven't got real football people doing real football jobs, its the easiest thing to make happen, but they're incapable of doing it.

They've been here 5yrs, every year things get worse and the debt increases. It doesn't matter who we bring in, or who we sell, things will simply not get any better until they leave and even then it'll be bad for a while, but at least the club will be on the mend.

You talk like you know there is a new owner waiting in the wings. If there isn't then when Venkys leave the quality of the squad would go down as the administrators would sell every player of value, and all the other club assets.

If Venky's put the club up for sale and a decent new owner bought us I would be delighted, but if there isn't anyone then the last fragments of Jack Walker's legacy get sold off to pay debts.

Not saying we are ok as we are, just saying that I think those who think it can't get any worse could sadly be proved wrong.

[Gav]

Agreed Gav.

I'm sure posters must be getting bored with keep reading it ada, even I'm getting sick of writing it!

I cannot for the life of me see any positives whatsoever for the football club in the coming season.

The fact we've just thrown millions away on Best, and are celebrating the fact he's gone, speaks volumes, is that the best we can hope for in the current climate, paying sh1te lazy players off

[K-Hod]

I would dearly love to know if the club has started to cut squad value on the books using the impairment tactic as mentioned in my earlier post like Fulham and Bolton have done to allow them to write back squad valuation against losses, seems a sensible tactic and others have set a precedent by using it.

Fulham wrote off 50% of their loss to impairment to stay within the rules for recorded loss by dropping neary 17 million in that column), Bolton and wolves did the same to the tune of 11m and 12m respectively, although it looks like this is only acceptable for newly relegated clubs, its certainly something we should have been doing, if not actively looking at doing now as the FA has already shown loss can be reclassified in this way without penalty as are allowing it for wolves, cardiff, fulham, bolton...

That sounds like a good and sensible idea, so they won't have done!

[Gav]

You talk like you know there is a new owner waiting in the wings. If there isn't then when Venkys leave the quality of the squad would go down as the administrators would sell every player of value, and all the other club assets.

If Venky's put the club up for sale and a decent new owner bought us I would be delighted, but if there isn't anyone then the last fragments of Jack Walker's legacy get sold off to pay debts.

Not saying we are ok as we are, just saying that I think those who think it can't get any worse could sadly be proved wrong.

and this is exactly the reason why I keep writing it.....

Bucksrover, I share your fears with regards to new owners, or lack off as it maybe, but quite simply if sticking with Venkys is the only option you see then with respect you may as well pack it in now.

These people are loading the club with more and more debt, day by day, and sticking with them is going to bust the club, they'll not take the debt with them, or Its very unlikely, so the debt is building.

The players are not good enough, the manager isn't good enough and the boardroom is a joke.

Its not going to get any better under Venkys, people holding out some sort of hope that it will are deluded. Don't take it from me, look at the last 5yrs and tell me how many good footballing decisions they've made

[tomphil]

Well income from parachutes payments halved so I would say that the loss with probably be around £20-25m again this year when the accounts are released. The reason we are being picked on is that it is only after being put under an embargo are we trying to do anything about it! Other clubs have been doing it for some time to get nearer to compliance. Also we will have lost around £85m in 3 seasons with parachute money, preventing that sort of situation is exactly why ffp has been introduced and i'm not sure why we are all complaining when we only have ourselves to blame.

We should have done the payoffs in year 1 of relegation, got back to an even keel and then pushed on in year 2 for promotion but sadly we didn't and we are likely to be a league 1 team this time next year or the year after as we will only have an income of around £8m, if we are allowed to make a £5m loss each year that will give us a budget of £13m, so pretty much anyone in our squad who is earning more than £6k per week needs to be sold/released this summer.

We should be looking at a squad of lets say 24 players, at £5k a week plus all of the other bits and pieces you have to pay that is £6m in wages plus national insurance etc and bonuses that comes to £8m or our total income. Let's now look the academy which is £2-3m to run, maintenance of ewood which is around £500k per year, other staff let's say £1.5m and I have already spend our budget before we get into transfers from other years we are paying for etc. So I think we can safely say we'll be under the embargo for the considerable future and even if it is lifted in time for next summer it does not matter because we won't be able to match the embargo rules packages to players anyway

Pay offs in year 1 of relegation might sound right but we'd only just signed most of the useless feckers we've spent the last ouple of seasons paying off. I know we are generous but to sign them then pay them straight off is a bit much even for Rovers Tantric and coco would've loved it though !

It all comes down to the same thing again, if they'd got rid of Kean and Anderson after the damage they'd already done then brought someone in to run the show. Signed some decent investments with the parachutes we wouldn't have this mess. Just like relegation it was all so avoidable. Venkys should pay for the lot out their own pockets and they should seek to get their dosh back from Kean and Anderson & co by suing them for gross neglect/misconduct or something !

[Amo]

Is selling off players part of FFP compliance? I can understand how writing off the likes of Orr, Etuhu, Best and other high-earners might show that we're trying to get our operating costs under control, but I doubt Marshall is one of them.

[Al]

Beaten by PKE. Another line of thanks on the Venky statue.

Maybe he wanted assurances that he would not be played everywhere bar his natural position?

Or maybe Shelfy recommended PNE.

[ptholt]

Is selling off players part of FFP compliance? I can understand how writing off the likes of Orr, Etuhu, Best and other high-earners might show that we're trying to get our operating costs under control, but I doubt Marshall is one of them.

The rule is to be financially compliant under the new rules, no mention as to the quality of the team in order to get compliant, there is a difference... and i suspect the latter comes under common sense.

[windymiller7]

That sounds like a good and sensible idea, so they won't have done!

That loophole could probably have saved us from FUP, but, as stated in the Telegraph, we didn't file anything under impairments.

This really does show what clowns we have in the ivory towers at Ewood. They obviously just shrugged their shoulders and went 'Oh well'.

Any MD and FD with a bit of nouse would've been all over this with their lawyers, instead, they've sat back and tried absolutely nothing (from what I can see). I can't even blame Venky's directly for this - other than the fact it's the muppets that they employed making the (non)decisions - It's the supposed 'Football People' numbties over here that haven't done their jobs properly.

I'm guessing that that boat has now sailed as this would only apply to players who were on our books when we were in the Prem (Robbo, Dann, Dunn etc). As these have now gone, I assume that we can't write this off retrospectively.

Oh sorry, just realised, we can probably write off £2.50 from Hanley's valuation!

To me this is yet another example of the incompetence which resides in the so called management down at Ewood!

[Blue blood]

Not sure where to put this so here goes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33461045

Basically Varney saying we were looking to do a deal for him, extending his contract. Now it could well be rubbish spouted off by a disgruntled player, which I sincerely hope it is. However if there is any truth in it, it is very worrying indeed. He did nothing on loan, nothing when here on a permanent contract, so why on earth would we even think of exploring a new deal for the guy?

Edit - seen mustard posted this a couple of pages back. Teach me to read back properly before posting!

[Gav]

He was good professional whilst he was here, kept his head down and never complained, so I don't think he's disgruntled I think it’s probably true, and the market we're now operating in.

If Rhodes and Gestede go he'd probably be seen as a starter along with Brown. Marshall could also be sold if the owners decide Sheff Weds potential bid is to good to turn down, so thats potentially 3 very good first team players sold with no ability to replace like for like.

We'll have a team of Luke Varneys soon, good professionals with limited ability, only problem is we'll be heading to league 1!

[Bucksrover]

and this is exactly the reason why I keep writing it.....

Bucksrover, I share your fears with regards to new owners, or lack off as it maybe, but quite simply if sticking with Venkys is the only option you see then with respect you may as well pack it in now.

These people are loading the club with more and more debt, day by day, and sticking with them is going to bust the club, they'll not take the debt with them, or Its very unlikely, so the debt is building.

The players are not good enough, the manager isn't good enough and the boardroom is a joke.

Its not going to get any better under Venkys, people holding out some sort of hope that it will are deluded. Don't take it from me, look at the last 5yrs and tell me how many good footballing decisions they've made

You make some good points Gav - I am one of the ones that clings to the (possibly fools) hope it will turn round. But it is certainly hope these days rather than expectation!

[tomphil]

That loophole could probably have saved us from FUP, but, as stated in the Telegraph, we didn't file anything under impairments.

This really does show what clowns we have in the ivory towers at Ewood. They obviously just shrugged their shoulders and went 'Oh well'.

Any MD and FD with a bit of nouse would've been all over this with their lawyers, instead, they've sat back and tried absolutely nothing (from what I can see). I can't even blame Venky's directly for this - other than the fact it's the muppets that they employed making the (non)decisions - It's the supposed 'Football People' numbties over here that haven't done their jobs properly.

I'm guessing that that boat has now sailed as this would only apply to players who were on our books when we were in the Prem (Robbo, Dann, Dunn etc). As these have now gone, I assume that we can't write this off retrospectively.

Oh sorry, just realised, we can probably write off £2.50 from Hanley's valuation!

To me this is yet another example of the incompetence which resides in the so called management down at Ewood!

We appear to have sleep walked into it but i'm not so sure. They knew it was inevitable Shaw said so ages ago, they also signed a load of players a while back giving the impression we were going to go all out for promotion on a budget but with a large squad. Not the case at all especially when you factor in Bowyers constant messing with the team and the squad value comments. Now the embargo is here we seem to be positively embracing it, welcoming it almost.

Of course it could just have been them telling Venkys it was coming and them saying nothing. Then the limpets at Ewood just sat there waiting to be told to do something and did nothing until it was too late.

[LewisF]

What do Ipswich fans make of Varney?

[BigBar]

Call me crazy but i dont think we will be relegated this year or next,,,the key for me lies with a decent manager, Im not a GB hater but just think he is too limited...a defence of Henley, Kilgallon, Duffy/Hanley Spurr should not be shipping goals so freely and that comes down to coaching and tactics, our midfield can be decent too if set up correctly..i like Taylor so i would stick him on the right, Olsson on the left and play evans and marshall in the middle, if marshall goes then we have a job to find a bit of creativity..the strikers would be my main concern...

[Al]

He was good useless professional whilst he was here, kept his head down and never complained, so I don't think he's disgruntled I think it’s probably true, and the market we're now operating in.

If Rhodes and Gestede go he'd probably be seen as a starter along with Brown. God help us if ever that was the case.

We'll have a team of Luke Varneys soon, good useless professionals with no ability, only problem is we'll be heading to league 1!

[DE.]

What do Ipswich fans make of Varney?

The same as most Rovers fans. A good grafter in a team that had already had too many. They appreciated that he worked hard (those I've spoken to, anyhow) but were also very much aware of his limitations.