[Archived] Is It Time To Protest Against Venkys?

[scotty_beam_me_up]

I went to the Q & A with Bowyer, Shaw and Myers a few weeks ago and the more I think about it, the more I think they got off quite lightly with the questioning. I admit I really do wish I would have asked at least one question, but it is not to say it shouldnt be posed now, as it is probably more relevant.

That would be - what is the actual process that is followed when a decision needs to be made? Lets start off basic - making a signing, albeit this is only a free transfer or a loan at present. What happens? Can the directors based within the UK make the decision or do they need some kind of green light from the owners. If so, what exactly happens? Is there a waiting time, given the time difference. And if so, is this factored in to decision making in the UK - is it planned to ensure there are no further delays?

Based on the above, if Bowyer was to lose say his next 6 games, is there anyone within the UK who can make a decision, or has the influence (and intelligence) to inform the owners of their concerns? Are the directors really THAT incompetent they would not heed the concern of fans? How often are these meetings, what is discussed? I know at the Q & A it was explained they made a conference call 'a number of weeks ago' and they watch all our games. I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall when these games are aired to them and who actually watches it and what happens afterwards - particularly after a defeat?

It would be interesting to know if they currently have (or ever have) a strategy in place? I seriously doubt they do, but I just cannot fathom why they would want to continue to fund something, to the tune of a reported £2m to £3m a month without some form of concern or intervention?

Personally, although the Championship is arguably one of the most unforgiving leagues around, I dont actually think it would take a complete overhaul to turn things around. Now before I cause a riot, let me explain. If we sold a player, came out of the embargo and then spent money on players, with an established manager (which we have not had since Allardyce went), surely the future outcome would be a stronger one to the current one we are heading towards? Even if Venky's have lost interest, surely, as business people (successful ones in their current industry by the sounds of it), it would be in their own financial interest to do so?

I did ask the question of what Venkys are getting out of their association with Blackburn Rovers but I was fobbed off by Alan Myers. Nobody knows what they are getting out of it. I'm not sure they do.

The club is a mess and the most worrying thing for me about the Q&A was Shaw. He had no idea of the sums involved in getting us out of the embargo. Worst of all he didn't seem to think it was his problem and kept blaming the fact the accountant couldn't turn up due to his kids birthday.

I've just posted in the Bowyer thread that we need a manager and if we employ one there is no reason why this season needs to be a write off.

[tomphil]

If they did dump us at least it would be an end to the gravy train riders, nowt to stick around for then unless of course they'd give their time for free to help us through

It was obvious something was going on from the beginning of the season after not meeting the manager and only the finance bloke going over. Not one sign of them at games either so considering all that is the opposite to what's usually happened in their time here then something is a foot. Is this their way of personally distancing themselves from it before stopping the finances ?

Sadly it could just be they're happy with those running the show now and will just leave it to plod on run by the finance guy in sell to survive mode. Said all along Cairney was flogged quickly to help pay some bills that were due at the end of summer.

[JHRover]

I went to the Q & A with Bowyer, Shaw and Myers a few weeks ago and the more I think about it, the more I think they got off quite lightly with the questioning. I admit I really do wish I would have asked at least one question, but it is not to say it shouldnt be posed now, as it is probably more relevant.

That would be - what is the actual process that is followed when a decision needs to be made? Lets start off basic - making a signing, albeit this is only a free transfer or a loan at present. What happens? Can the directors based within the UK make the decision or do they need some kind of green light from the owners. If so, what exactly happens? Is there a waiting time, given the time difference. And if so, is this factored in to decision making in the UK - is it planned to ensure there are no further delays?

Based on the above, if Bowyer was to lose say his next 6 games, is there anyone within the UK who can make a decision, or has the influence (and intelligence) to inform the owners of their concerns? Are the directors really THAT incompetent they would not heed the concern of fans? How often are these meetings, what is discussed? I know at the Q & A it was explained they made a conference call 'a number of weeks ago' and they watch all our games. I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall when these games are aired to them and who actually watches it and what happens afterwards - particularly after a defeat?

It would be interesting to know if they currently have (or ever have) a strategy in place? I seriously doubt they do, but I just cannot fathom why they would want to continue to fund something, to the tune of a reported £2m to £3m a month without some form of concern or intervention?

Personally, although the Championship is arguably one of the most unforgiving leagues around, I dont actually think it would take a complete overhaul to turn things around. Now before I cause a riot, let me explain. If we sold a player, came out of the embargo and then spent money on players, with an established manager (which we have not had since Allardyce went), surely the future outcome would be a stronger one to the current one we are heading towards? Even if Venky's have lost interest, surely, as business people (successful ones in their current industry by the sounds of it), it would be in their own financial interest to do so?

For some reason Venkys seem to have decided that they are going to leave the club to get on with things. That might be because they have completely lost interest and don't want to be bothered with the aggravation of running a football club, or it might be because they are heeding some sort of advice and are keeping out of the way and keeping their heads down because they are still under the impression that is all the fans want from them.

The problem is that we appear to be stuck in some sort of middle ground, whereby the good elements of Venkys being absent owners are being balanced by the downside. Most people are happy that they are staying out of the way in India, aren't giving media interviews and aren't employing the likes of Shebby Singh or agents to interfere in the running of the club. Infact many clubs would like the arrangement we have where we have owners pumping millions into the club whilst offering very little in return and leaving the manager to sort things out himself. But the flipside is that they haven't entrusted the board or manager in Blackburn to run the club properly on their behalf. So when it comes to expenditure for example, even on relatively minor or obscure things like spending on new machinery on the training ground or on cosmetic improvements at Ewood, everything has to go to them for approval.

It was highly alarming reading Shaw's comments at the Q and A session last week. It is quite obvious that even as the most senior employee at the football club that he has very little, if any, involvement or communication with the owners or their representatives. How can that situation possibly continue? Is Shaw happy with this arrangement? If not then why isn't he on the phone to Desai asking what is going on?

My belief is that they have reached a state of impasse, and are probably divided between themselves over which way to go next. On the one hand they still 'want' promotion as a means to solve the financial black hole that has engulfed this venture, yet still have little to no idea of how to achieve that. From another angle they clearly want to reduce costs at the club which is fair enough given the amounts they have lost. I think they were expecting much more from the last couple of seasons and the reality of a prolonged spell in the Championship with falling revenues is starting to become clear to them, as is the difficulty of getting out of this league.

At the same time I don't think there is the desire, particularly from Desai's point of view, to start sacking people over again. Having to start paying people off and conducting searches for new managers and staff is an expensive and complex process. She clearly likes Bowyer and trusts him to get on with the job professionally, and I think she values having someone she can trust over results and performances.

The one thing they can probably agree on is that walking away simply isn't an option. They've pumped £100 million into this club over the last 3 years and the only way of solving that is to either get the club on a sound footing financially or get promotion. They seem to be trying to do both, without achieving either.

I still don't understand why they don't go and employ a proper Chief Executive to run the club for them. Entrust that man to hire and fire, give him an annual budget to work to, let him report every couple of weeks as to progress and how things are going.

[oldjamfan1]

I went to the Q & A with Bowyer, Shaw and Myers a few weeks ago and the more I think about it, the more I think they got off quite lightly with the questioning. I admit I really do wish I would have asked at least one question, but it is not to say it shouldnt be posed now, as it is probably more relevant.

That would be - what is the actual process that is followed when a decision needs to be made?

I did put that exact question forward when this MB asked for suggestions for questions for those attending to ask from people who couldn't get to the Q & A. It is fundamental to so many things.

[JBiz]

I still don't understand why they don't go and employ a proper Chief Executive to run the club for them. Entrust that man to hire and fire, give him an annual budget to work to, let him report every couple of weeks as to progress and how things are going.

Sorry to cherry pick your excellent post JHR but I thought this part was the most important part.

When this happens, steps forward will a possibility.

[JHRover]

Over the last few weeks I have heard from a number of sources both at Ewood and Pune that the owners have virtually stopped communicating with the executive at Ewood, this was pretty much backed up by some of the comments that Derek Shaw made at the Q&A re less communication from the owners.

This is just me speculating and I could be on the totally wrong track, but maybe this complete lack of communication and making decisions is the first step of Venky's having decided to sell or dump the club. In last year's accounts they gave a commitment to fund until May 2016, given that promotion this year is not going to happen, maybe they have decided that they will not commit beyond May 2016.

IF that is the case then what happens next? Do they have a viable buyer lined up, will they decide to sell our assets (Rhodes, Marshall and Hanley) and use that finance to keep us a viable business for a further 12 months so that they can find a buyer? Or will they dump us?

I don't really see what they can do.

Assuming there isn't another owner waiting in the wings willing to take on a loss making club which is £100 million in debt, and assuming we don't get promotion, then there are only two things they can do.

Option 1 is to offload the club to anyone who will take it, and in the process write off a large chunk or all of the debt owed to them.

Option 2 is to dump the club into administration, which will see them lose control and again will see them lose a lot of money.

Even if our 'assets' are sold off - our most valuable players would fetch about £20 million combined.

There's one thing that complicates this theory of them losing interest and wanting to walk away/liquidate assets - why did they reject several bids for Jordan Rhodes this summer?

If we're back to the situation where the 'Big 4' all need to agree for a major decision to be made then it wouldn't surprise me if there is disagreement on the way forward for them, with some wanting to bail and others wanting to stick at it and still turn it around.

Stuck in the middle of this are Bowyer, Shaw and Myers, plodding along doing their jobs without speaking to the real important people.

[Kamy100]

There's one thing that complicates this theory of them losing interest and wanting to walk away/liquidate assets - why did they reject several bids for Jordan Rhodes this summer?

I think that they were convinced by someone that it was a win/win situation, keeping hold of him might give us a chance of getting top 6, if not then he would retain his value to be sold in January or Summer, so they decided not to sell.

[Speedie Dived]

I think that they were convinced by someone that it was a win/win situation, keeping hold of him might give us a chance of getting top 6, if not then he would retain his value to be sold in January or Summer, so they decided not to sell.

I think it's a joke to them now. They will be laughing at us, the fans who protested against them. The best retribution for them is to just let us drift/rot.

I can see how fans could be split on Bowyer, but i cannot for the life of me see how people could be split on these imbeciles. They have not done one good thing for the club. They don't even have the spine to talk to us anymore, pathetic individuals.

[SuperStella]

Perhaps we should all ask our director of communications to communicate with Venky's and tell them the fans want to meet them!

[SuperStella]

How many of these questions are STILL unanswered? http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/12/20/rovers-fans-pose-64-questions-but-blackburn-postpone-meeting201201/

[RevidgeBlue]

I think it's a joke to them now. They will be laughing at us, the fans who protested against them. The best retribution for them is to just let us drift/rot.

I can see how fans could be split on Bowyer, but i cannot for the life of me see how people could be split on these imbeciles. They have not done one good thing for the club. They don't even have the spine to talk to us anymore, pathetic individuals.

They've not done much right since they've been here but the decision to keep Rhodes ((again) was a gutsy decision and the correct one. Look where we'd be this season without him. Relegated by Christmas I'd wager.

Protesting is a tricky one in the current situation imo. Any protest banner should read not "Venky's out" but "For god's sake appoint a proven experienced manager but in the meantime stick around and bail us out to the tune of £20m p.a. to keep us afloat please"

[mhead]

Its always the right time to protest against the Venkys.

Just they are not listening anyway.

And while nothing happens WHAM 'invest' 1.2million in Accy Stanley and the Action Group cannot get any traction on the alternative solutions.

[1arC]

They've not done much right since they've been here but the decision to keep Rhodes ((again) was a gutsy decision and the correct one. Look where we'd be this season without him. Relegated by Christmas I'd wager.

Protesting is a tricky one in the current situation imo. Any protest banner should read not "Venky's out" but "For god's sake appoint a proven experienced manager but in the meantime stick around and bail us out to the tune of £20m p.a. to keep us afloat please"

Would all that fit on a banner trailing behind a plane?

[OJRovers]

I don't really see what they can do.

Assuming there isn't another owner waiting in the wings willing to take on a loss making club which is £100 million in debt, and assuming we don't get promotion, then there are only two things they can do.

Option 1 is to offload the club to anyone who will take it, and in the process write off a large chunk or all of the debt owed to them.

Option 2 is to dump the club into administration, which will see them lose control and again will see them lose a lot of money.

Even if our 'assets' are sold off - our most valuable players would fetch about £20 million combined.

There's one thing that complicates this theory of them losing interest and wanting to walk away/liquidate assets - why did they reject several bids for Jordan Rhodes this summer?

If we're back to the situation where the 'Big 4' all need to agree for a major decision to be made then it wouldn't surprise me if there is disagreement on the way forward for them, with some wanting to bail and others wanting to stick at it and still turn it around.

Stuck in the middle of this are Bowyer, Shaw and Myers, plodding along doing their jobs without speaking to the real important people.

I don't think it's difficult, by far the cheapest and most sensible is:

Option 3: Appoint a competent Exec structure and manager.

[Pedro]

I don't think it's difficult, by far the cheapest and most sensible is:

Option 3: Appoint a competent Exec structure and manager.

I will never understand why that hasn't been done.

[broadsword]

Yes, I think we'll just be left to rot now.

Why sell Gestede and Cairney though if they still harboured hopes of getting us back up? It's not as if it got us out of the embargo. Did the Bank of India lean on them?

If they put Rhodes up for sale in Jan/July, who would buy him?

It's very interesting that they don't bother communicating any more. I suspect though, that given the Indian propensity for saving face, they're just hoping to run us into the ground, that a League 2 club wouldn't be so noticeable.

Maybe I just don't want to get my hopes up and imagine them finally packing it up. It's cruel to be given reason for such desperate fantasies.

Have they definitely given up on the Champions' League?

[1arC]

How many of these questions are STILL unanswered? http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/12/20/rovers-fans-pose-64-questions-but-blackburn-postpone-meeting201201/

Perhaps these should have been put on a sheet of paper and the answers handed out, before the recent Q & A session.

[tomphil]

No idea whether it had any bearing on Rovers but in the summer they were forced to cut back on some of the chicken products they supply to conform with some regulations in India. May have spooked their bank a bit.

[broadsword]

I know I shouldn't be bitter but I hope they manage to ruin the whole business and end up with nothing.

They should be made to feel how we feel.

[1864roverite]

No idea whether it had any bearing on Rovers but in the summer they were forced to cut back on some of the chicken products they supply to conform with some regulations in India. May have spooked their bank a bit.

Think you might be wrong on that score, Apparently they scored a huge business deal in the chicken world earlier this year which stems from the USA and beyond.

[Jock]

Think you might be wrong on that score, Apparently they scored a huge business deal in the chicken world earlier this year which stems from the USA and beyond.

Well there is a void after the death of Gus Fring.

Venkys- Breaking Blackburn

[Mercer]

Over the last few weeks I have heard from a number of sources both at Ewood and Pune that the owners have virtually stopped communicating with the executive at Ewood, this was pretty much backed up by some of the comments that Derek Shaw made at the Q&A re less communication from the owners.

This is just me speculating and I could be on the totally wrong track, but maybe this complete lack of communication and making decisions is the first step of Venky's having decided to sell or dump the club. In last year's accounts they gave a commitment to fund until May 2016, given that promotion this year is not going to happen, maybe they have decided that they will not commit beyond May 2016.

IF that is the case then what happens next? Do they have a viable buyer lined up, will they decide to sell our assets (Rhodes, Marshall and Hanley) and use that finance to keep us a viable business for a further 12 months so that they can find a buyer? Or will they dump us?

Have seen the Twitter stuff about a 'big announcement' from Ewood tomorrow.

What constitutes 'big' I am not quite sure.

I think it's likely there is something afoot as there was some speculation on Saturday about an announcement 'within days'.

I think it's clear the club is 'unsellable'.

Not inconceivable though that they could start to relinquish ownership in a piecemeal fashion but ultimately would necessitate them writing off their investment in its entirety and probably having to guarantee some short term financing.

Could be the beginning of the end of Venky's reign.

[1arC]

Have seen the Twitter stuff about a 'big announcement' from Ewood tomorrow.

What constitutes 'big' I am not quite sure.

I think it's likely there is something afoot as there was some speculation on Saturday about an announcement 'within days'.

I think it's clear the club is 'unsellable'.

Not inconceivable though that they could start to relinquish ownership in a piecemeal fashion but ultimately would necessitate them writing off their investment in its entirety and probably having to guarantee some short term financing.

Could be the beginning of the end of Venky's reign.

I haven't seen anything on Twitter, who is posting that please? Could it not be the axe falling on someone of influence that is the big announcement?

[Mercer]

I haven't seen anything on Twitter, who is posting that please? Could it not be the axe falling on someone of influence that is the big announcement?

[1arC]

Cheers Mercerman