[Archived] Is It Time To Protest Against Venkys?

[onlyonejackwalker]

Interesting debate. Some cracking posts. Thanks to GM for posting that email and recent comments. Keep going. Been telling everyone for ages Shaw is a goon, but because he is minted some use that as a sure sign of intelligence. Wonder what they think of scary spice?

Protesting at matches, or marching simply isn't a solution. I unhappily went on the marches. Didn't think they'd help but couldn't just sit on my ass. We would never match the previous numbers or vitriol achieved at that time. Re-watch some of the scum out videos. They were fierce at times and achieved little.

I'd like a starting point. I'd like to see a hugely detailed and 100% accurate time-line of events compiled. And posted for the public interest on here. Something confirmed and agreed and publicly referenced. The whole story as far as we know it. Bullet pointed from start to finish with as much supporting dated information as possible. Call it a time-line or summary. Or a mini dossier..

[Mullionvagrant]

Interesting debate. Some cracking posts. Thanks to GM for posting that email and recent comments. Keep going. Been telling everyone for ages Shaw is a goon, but because he is minted some use that as a sure sign of intelligence. Wonder what they think of scary spice?

Protesting at matches, or marching simply isn't a solution. I unhappily went on the marches. Didn't think they'd help but couldn't just sit on my ass. We would never match the previous numbers or vitriol achieved at that time. Re-watch some of the scum out videos. They were fierce at times and achieved little.

I'd like a starting point. I'd like to see a hugely detailed and 100% accurate time-line of events compiled. And posted for the public interest on here. Something confirmed and agreed and publicly referenced. The whole story as far as we know it. Bullet pointed from start to finish with as much supporting dated information as possible. Call it a time-line or summary. Or a mini dossier..

It is very easy to date some events/confirm e.g sale of club, sacking of Big Sam, resignations etc... but how can you legally put a 100% accurate time line together with out hard facts. If it was that easy we would be able to hold certain people accountable etc. AS much as we would all like to see a chronological history i believe it isn't achievable. How do you reference hearsay or unsubstantiated events. But if more and more information is drip fed into popular understanding then people can piece together their own chronology of events (as can press/authorities etc)

[Roverall]

Any snacks for us tonight, Glen?

[onlyonejackwalker]

It is very easy to date some events/confirm e.g sale of club, sacking of Big Sam, resignations etc... but how can you legally put a 100% accurate time line together with out hard facts. If it was that easy we would be able to hold certain people accountable etc. AS much as we would all like to see a chronological history i believe it isn't achievable. How do you reference hearsay or unsubstantiated events. But if more and more information is drip fed into popular understanding then people can piece together their own chronology of events (as can press/authorities etc)

I think we have the knowledge base to give it a right good go.

[Mullionvagrant]

I think we have the knowledge base to give it a right good go.

I'm sure we do (and a quick google search shows past attempts at this by people-won't link)....but how do you post unsubstantiated/unconfirmed without leaving the board open to legal threats etc. If you go back through the thread i attempted a brief chronological summary of a few main newspaper articles etc where the press had published details etc. They in themselves act as a sort of overview and hint at some of the involvements etc. BUT i would never post anything that wasn't already in the public domain unless i could definitely stand by it etc. Would you???

However the more information that is drip fed/future court cases involving individuals elsewhere. The easier and safer this will eventually become.

[tomphil]

Like I said before we need some sort of public enquiry and maybe one or two will come forward. Get the concerns out in public, air the stuff about Shelf to the wider fanbase. Demand to know where the club is going. Any protests etc can follow and at least people will know just why it's kicking off. Of course some positive action from the club or owners could head it off.

We'll probably end up selling a few more, hiding behind the embargo and a few months into the season if things aren't going well the moans will start but the club have all their excuses lined up. Too late again.

[joey_big_nose]

In terms of a public enquiry how could that be set up with some semblance of authority? Does it have to come from parliament or can the local MP/council etc set one up?

[Mike Graham]

Just so I am clear: is it the offical policy of the Trust for its Secretary to put such information in the public domain?

And what is wrong with posting such info John?

[K-Hod]

And what is wrong with posting such info John?

I think it was not omitting the name, address and contact info of the person in question? Nothing wrong with him sharing the letter.

[tomphil]

In terms of a public enquiry how could that be set up with some semblance of authority? Does it have to come from parliament or can the local MP/council etc set one up?

I'm not sure about that but probably. You'd think someone would take up the mantle there was enough prominent members shouting from the rooftops last time. Surely they weren't just jumping on the bandwagon for a bit of publicity ?????

[47er]

Anyone can set up a public enquiry but witnesses are then open to libel/slander processes. Would need parliamentary protection to be of any use.

[1arC]

I think we have the knowledge base to give it a right good go.

I agree with what you re suggesting and putting allegedly quite often fends off litigation.

[Mike Graham]

I think it was not omitting the name, address and contact info of the person in question? Nothing wrong with him sharing the letter.

Fair enough then!

[Exiled in Toronto]

And what is wrong with posting such info John?

I was under the impression one of the main aims of the Trust was to open a constructive dialogue with the owners. Perhaps I'm wrong but the Secretary of the Trust posting such stuff, even on a personal basis, might be seen to at odds with those aims and hinder their achievement.

[Mullionvagrant]

I was under the impression one of the main aims of the Trust was to open a constructive dialogue with the owners. Perhaps I'm wrong but the Secretary of the Trust posting such stuff, even on a personal basis, might be seen to at odds with those aims and hinder their achievement.

What by posting information about someone who is paid by the owners and has clearly (letter) failed in his remit to communicate and inform/act in the interest of the owners (and therefore also fans).?????

Glen should be free to post what ever he has personally been given. I presume he was not paid for his trust services and i presume didn't sign a contract of non-disclosure.

I don't understand your problem with this 'Exiled in Toronto' surely its in the best interest of the fans to not sit on information which could prevent further issues in the long term??

[Gav]

Anyone can set up a public enquiry but witnesses are then open to libel/slander processes. Would need parliamentary protection to be of any use.

If you tell the truth you should have nothing to worry about surely 47er? or am I being naive?

[ABBEY]

I was under the impression one of the main aims of the Trust was to open a constructive dialogue with the owners. Perhaps I'm wrong but the Secretary of the Trust posting such stuff, even on a personal basis, might be seen to at odds with those aims and hinder their achievement.

so you agree with censorship?

[Mullionvagrant]

If you tell the truth you should have nothing to worry about surely 47er? or am I being naive?

The question would be how do you know its the truth? (can prove it) and in proving it how did you get the information? (legally or illegally).

If can't prove it (substantiate it) and gained/received information illegally-then yes i presume you would have something to worry about!

Coupled with that potential threats to family and friends.....

[Mullionvagrant]

What by posting information about someone who is paid by the owners and has clearly (letter) failed in his remit to communicate and inform/act in the interest of the owners (and therefore also fans).?????

Glen should be free to post what ever he has personally been given. I presume he was not paid for his trust services and i presume didn't sign a contract of non-disclosure.

I don't understand your problem with this 'Exiled in Toronto' surely its in the best interest of the fans to not sit on information which could prevent further issues in the long term??

The question to ask is Still-if Shaw is allegedly not acting in the interests of the owners (letter), then who is he acting in the interests of??? Himself or others??

The question to also ask is why when Venky's clearly should have had the opportunity to remove him for clear misconduct (letter) why was he not!!! I.e why is he still appointed at the club (letter)

.

What was Shebby's remit???... he seemingly was a Venky's appointment and allegedly did not see eye to eye with Shaw. Was he thereas suggested to tip the balance of power/control in Venky's direction?

How involved is Shaw currently in transfer decisions/sales e.g Cairney etc, again another question to ask....and who is advising these sales/who is shaw reporting to if involved in sales (possibly not Bowyer??).

Answers please on a postcard.

[Baz]

The question would be how do you know its the truth? (can prove it) and in proving it how did you get the information? (legally or illegally).

If can't prove it (substantiate it) and gained/received information illegally-then yes i presume you would have something to worry about!

Coupled with that potential threats to family and friends.....

Pretty sure given the legal threats issued in the past, that the letter wouldn't be on here if it wasn't legitimate.

[neophox]

Is it so hard to for the owners to sack Shaw? Just do It!

[LewisF]

Is it so hard to for the owners to sack Shaw? Just do It!

they can't even communicate with the fans! In no way whatsoever do I expect them to sack Shaw: they've probably forgotten that they own our club.

[Iceman]

Getting rid of the Venkys is the ONLY solution ....

The more the fans hit Venkys, it seems the more stubborn they become and trying to prove a point. If people know people who know very very rich people, maybe try and get them to try and buy the club by making offers. Venkys might get annoyed by it, but eventually somebody will come along with an offer thats too good to turn down for them. Probably not a good plan, but hey its worth a try to put the club up for sale despite it not being up for sale right now

[47er]

The more the fans hit Venkys, it seems the more stubborn they become and trying to prove a point. If people know people who know very very rich people, maybe try and get them to try and buy the club by making offers. Venkys might get annoyed by it, but eventually somebody will come along with an offer thats too good to turn down for them. Probably not a good plan, but hey its worth a try to put the club up for sale despite it not being up for sale right now

The more the fans hit Venkys the more the sh*ts hit the fans!

[JBiz]

If the clubs sold Iceman, the next owner will need to pay of 80m+ in debts or Venkys would have to right it off.

Both of those scenarios seem far fetched to me.