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[Audax]

The wars in the Congo have also hurt the gorillas a lot or whatever type from that family, that's been in the news, they probably step on land mines from time to time. Very sad.

[Paul]

Little different loosing your kid for a few minutes in a supermarket where there's not many risks than it is to loosing them in a zoo where they could get into all sorts of trouble, that said this is still a bizarre and extreme case, I haven't looked into the details but surely it just shouldn't have been possible for a little kid(or anybody) to get in there with such a dangerous animal, I don't know enough about what happened to judge but my instinctive target to blame would be the zoo.

Two points here.

"That same afternoon, James Bulger (often called "Jamie" by the press, although never by his family), from nearby Kirkby, went with his mother Denise to the New Strand Shopping Centre. While inside the A.R. Tym's butcher's shop on the lower floor of the centre at around 3:40 pm, Denise, who had been temporarily distracted, realised that her son had disappeared. Thompson and Venables approached him before taking him by the hand and leading him out of the shopping centre. This moment was captured on a CCTV camera recording timestamped at 15:42."

The harsh reality of life is parents get distracted and danger is everywhere. On most occasions, thankfully, the worst that happens is the parent is distraught for a few moments.

As you say if there is an issue here the question has to address the zoo's enclosure security.

Perhaps one of the main points this raises, again, is the terrible blame culture which has developed in recent decades? Everyone has to find someone to blame. Nobody seems to be prepared to accept responsibility for themselves or accept that sometimes sh1it happens and no one is at fault.

The child survived, thank goodness, and the zoo will review its security. That is pretty much the top and bottom of this story.

[ABBEY]

No abby im really not, but you just never learn, dont give it, if you can't take it.

I'm sorry if i touched on one of your nuuuuumerous raw nerves though.

Like I said

[Mike E]

My view is that WE are the next great disaster that will destroy most life on earth through overpopulation, unless something (disease) destroys us first.

Things like this are the next steps in this process, where we view other animals as below ourselves.

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Jim shows no sympathy for the poor animal despite claiming to be whiter than white all the time.

[T J Hooker]

Two points here.

"That same afternoon, James Bulger (often called "Jamie" by the press, although never by his family), from nearby Kirkby, went with his mother Denise to the New Strand Shopping Centre. While inside the A.R. Tym's butcher's shop on the lower floor of the centre at around 3:40 pm, Denise, who had been temporarily distracted, realised that her son had disappeared. Thompson and Venables approached him before taking him by the hand and leading him out of the shopping centre. This moment was captured on a CCTV camera recording timestamped at 15:42."

The harsh reality of life is parents get distracted and danger is everywhere. On most occasions, thankfully, the worst that happens is the parent is distraught for a few moments.

As you say if there is an issue here the question has to address the zoo's enclosure security.

Perhaps one of the main points this raises, again, is the terrible blame culture which has developed in recent decades? Everyone has to find someone to blame. Nobody seems to be prepared to accept responsibility for themselves or accept that sometimes sh1it happens and no one is at fault.

The child survived, thank goodness, and the zoo will review its security. That is pretty much the top and bottom of this story.

i never blamed the parents, my point was(until abby chirped in) that it shouldn't physically be possible for anybody to so easily get into an enclosure with a dangerous animal

[Stuart]

Two points here.

"That same afternoon, James Bulger (often called "Jamie" by the press, although never by his family), from nearby Kirkby, went with his mother Denise to the New Strand Shopping Centre. While inside the A.R. Tym's butcher's shop on the lower floor of the centre at around 3:40 pm, Denise, who had been temporarily distracted, realised that her son had disappeared. Thompson and Venables approached him before taking him by the hand and leading him out of the shopping centre. This moment was captured on a CCTV camera recording timestamped at 15:42."

The harsh reality of life is parents get distracted and danger is everywhere. On most occasions, thankfully, the worst that happens is the parent is distraught for a few moments.

As you say if there is an issue here the question has to address the zoo's enclosure security.

Perhaps one of the main points this raises, again, is the terrible blame culture which has developed in recent decades? Everyone has to find someone to blame. Nobody seems to be prepared to accept responsibility for themselves or accept that sometimes sh1it happens and no one is at fault.

The child survived, thank goodness, and the zoo will review its security. That is pretty much the top and bottom of this story.

Your main point seems to contradict itself. I completely agree that people fail to take responsibility and ultimately it is down to parents to accept that responsibility. It's why good parents are distraught when something does genuinely go wrong. But even if they are distracted, the parent must still shoulder that responsibility. It is only because of the quick thinking of the zoo that they are not mourning the loss of a child down to their lack of care. They were in a zoo! Parents should be extra vigilant.

Any suggestion about the zoo enclosure is then looking for someone else to blame - and immediately sets up a claim against the zoo, hence the contradiction. The zoo's decision to shoot was probably as much about the American litigation culture as the child's safety.

It's the reason that we see stupid signs at ice rinks warning that the ice is slippery, or printed on coffee cups that the contents are hot.

[ABBEY]

i never blamed the parents, my point was(until abby chirped in) that it shouldn't physically be possible for anybody to so easily get into an enclosure with a dangerous animal

Chirped in ?

And it's abbey .

Or should I call you BJ ?

[T J Hooker]

I couldn't care less.

[Paul]

i never blamed the parents, my point was(until abby chirped in) that it shouldn't physically be possible for anybody to so easily get into an enclosure with a dangerous animal

I realise that but you made a distinction re supermarkets and I wanted to illustrate this can happen anywhere, usually with no harm but occasionally with awful and tragic results.

[Paul]

Your main point seems to contradict itself. I completely agree that people fail to take responsibility and ultimately it is down to parents to accept that responsibility. It's why good parents are distraught when something does genuinely go wrong. But even if they are distracted, the parent must still shoulder that responsibility. It is only because of the quick thinking of the zoo that they are not mourning the loss of a child down to their lack of care. They were in a zoo! Parents should be extra vigilant.

Any suggestion about the zoo enclosure is then looking for someone else to blame - and immediately sets up a claim against the zoo, hence the contradiction. The zoo's decision to shoot was probably as much about the American litigation culture as the child's safety.

It's the reason that we see stupid signs at ice rinks warning that the ice is slippery, or printed on coffee cups that the contents are hot.

No there isn't a contradiction here. A part of my point is parents do, on occasion, momentarily lose sight of/control of or some appropriate word, their kids. I wouldn't believe a parent who said otherwise - even if it's as simple as pulling a child back from a pavement edge. The other aspect is things go wrong in life and with our blame culture people increasingly look for someone to blame, sometimes justifiably, sometimes not and sometimes to deflect blame from themselves.

There are times when the totally unforeseen happens and others when failures in for example safety inspections do make a company or individual culpable.

I've not attempted to blame the zoo. My presumption is the zoo thought its procedures adequate and in the light of the incident will review them. Seems reasonable to me.

You're saying the parents are responsible and of course parents should be responsible for their children but despite this things do go wrong on occasions.

[jim mk2]

My view is that WE are the next great disaster that will destroy most life on earth through overpopulation, unless something (disease) destroys us first.

Things like this are the next steps in this process, where we view other animals as below ourselves.

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Jim shows no sympathy for the poor animal despite claiming to be whiter than white all the time.

I wonder how you would have felt if that was your child in danger of being killed by a dangerous animal.

The animal is not to blame - that lies squarely with the zoo for its poor security. The zoo however did the right thing in saving the life of the child.

That's common sense, unlike your silly remark in the last sentence.

[donnermeat]

Who's to say the gorilla wouldn't have lashed out as it got more dreary while the tranquiliser kicked in - you just can't take a chance like that with human life, particularly a child's.

Hopefully the zoo learns from this and puts measures in place to prevent this from happening again in the future.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Just because the Gorilla held its hand for a second doesn't mean the child wasn't in real danger. That was a 400lb Silverback Gorilla, he could kill a large human in a split second never mind a young child. Alpha Males can be extremely temperamental, if they had gone into the enclosure to try and get the kid out he would have challenged them to assert his dominance. Tranquilizing wasn't an option either as it would have taken minutes to kick in on an animal that large and powerful and what happens if the Gorilla had fallen on the kid?

I'm not a parent but I know as a kid and having siblings that keeping an eye on your children 100% of the time can be difficult, kids do sometimes get away from their parents. Hell I remember the bollocking I got when I went missing at Blackpool tower as a young child because I wanted to go back to Jungle Jim's.

If anyone is to blame it sounds like the zoo, perhaps their safety and security measures in place weren't good enough which led to the wandering kid falling into the enclosure.

[yoda]

I am sure the Americans will get to the bottom of this,

After all they invented the blame culture that is spreading around the globe.

[T J Hooker]

Yea 'blame' the Americans

[Stuart]

You're saying the parents are responsible and of course parents should be responsible for their children but despite this things do go wrong on occasions.

Quite. And when things go wrong the parents must accept full responsibility.

Being a parent is a tough gig! Many in society today seems to see children as a means to an end, and they are they biggest complaints when people don't take responsibility for THEIR "kids". But that's s whole different debate.

[Pedro]

Had the gorilla killed the child in a split second (which it is easily capable of doing), there would be only one opinion about this - why did they not shoot the gorilla to protect the child?

A tough, tough call to make and I'd imagine a protocol has been in place for exactly this scenario. No winner in it at all and a terrible waste of life. At the root of it will probably be laziness, a mistake or simple error of judgement and if it was a common but potentially extremely dangerous dog, 99% of people would make that call to kill the animal very easily. So sad though.

[Pedro]

Quite. And when things go wrong the parents must accept full responsibility.

Being a parent is a tough gig! Many in society today seems to see children as a means to an end, and they are they biggest complaints when people don't take responsibility for THEIR "kids". But that's s whole different debate.

Earlier this year I found a barefooted 15 - 18 month old baby/toddler wandering near a busy main road junction - no parent in sight. I picked him up and took him to a school nearby and called the police. When the parents were eventually found after some door knocking (they hadn't noticed him gone!), they thought it was a big fuss about nothing! There are some very unworthy parents around and luckily the social services are now aware of those loons.

[yoda]

Yea 'blame' the Americans

Is it pantomime season already ?

[Mike E]

I wonder how you would have felt if that was your child in danger of being killed by a dangerous animal.

The animal is not to blame - that lies squarely with the zoo for its poor security. The zoo however did the right thing in saving the life of the child.

That's common sense, unlike your silly remark in the last sentence.

I didn't say the zoo did anything wrong. I do hope, however, that both the zoo (for its lax security) and the child's parents are held to account for the death of one of a critically endangered species.

I think the earlier comment about losing a child in a supermarket is a bit daft. A supermarket isn't teeming with wild animals.

All zoos must ensure the safety of visitors, but equally so must the visitors act in accordance with their surroundings.

My last sentence was petty, I'll grant you, but not wrong. You do come across as being (ridiculously, at times) closed to any opinion not concurrent with your own, if not downright nasty.

[Tom]

http://news.sky.com/story/1705318/prolific-paedophile-richard-huckle-sentenced

Unbelievably evil, calculated, disgusting stuff never felt as angry reading a story.

Not happy with raping babies and toddlers he tried selling the evidence and tips on how to do it and get away with it

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

My view is that WE are the next great disaster that will destroy most life on earth through overpopulation, unless something (disease) destroys us first.

Without a doubt.

"These experts calculate that between 0.01 and 0.1% of all species will become extinct each year. If the low estimate of the number of species out there is true - i.e. that there are around 2 million different species on our planet - then that means between 200 and 2,000 extinctions occur every year."

​Taken from the WWF so not exactly a neutral source but I doubt its wrong personally. We've destroyed 20% of the rainforest, the arctic ice cap is predicted to be ice-free in the summer within 20 years, 2015 was the warmest global year since on record since 1880.

At this rate, first other animals will die, then the planet will die, then we'll die. But who's gonna tell people to stop having 4+ kids? It'll have to happen at some point but I suspect public support will only get behind the idea when its already too late.

[Amo]

http://news.sky.com/story/1705318/prolific-paedophile-richard-huckle-sentenced

Unbelievably evil, calculated, disgusting stuff never felt as angry reading a story.

Not happy with raping babies and toddlers he tried selling the evidence and tips on how to do it and get away with it

Another sickening case of child abuse in the news today.

I will never understand how anyone could rob a child of their innocence.

[adopted scouser]

Another sickening case of child abuse in the news today.

I will never understand how anyone could rob a child of their innocence.

And where were social services AGAIN ?

He, "err slipped off the radar" - thanks for that, the little lad is dead. (and this following his being reported to the authorities by the staff at the nursery he attended).

Those two 'parents', filth.

[Steve Moss]

Saving the child was 100% the right thing to do. I'm sorry the gorilla was killed, but from what I understand tranquilizer darts don't work like we see on the movies. They take time to take effect based on too many factors to adequately calculate with a dart. And once shot, the behavior of the animal is varied, including confusion, aggression, etc.

All in all, the zoo did the right thing.

As to blame, let the investigators sort it out. We don't know enough to throw any stones.