[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[dave birch]

Two genius replies there

Four words and an edit.

Sorry TJ couldn't resist

[T J Hooker]

Four words and an edit.

Sorry TJ couldn't resist

Was more self censoring than editing.

Does anybody else want to add another brilliantly witty remark instead of actually commenting on the content of my post.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If teachers where treat with respect, where allowed to do their jobs how they see fit and paid better then the real pay of would be on the improved work that they could do with the kids in the classroom. But no they're treat like common plebs by the government with schools being run by career minded bean counters, so they're left with no choice but to protest.

'protesteing/strike action outside of work hours' surely that got to be one of the dumbest things ever said on here!

What does treated with respect mean exactly? If you mean by pupils I totally agree, if you mean by anyone else then I'm not sure where you're coming from. Nobody is allowed to do their job how they see fit, what an odd notion. You do your job how your boss/company owner sees fit unless you're self-employed, its accountability and every profession should be subject to it.

Can't decipher the next bit of that sentence until I get to bean counters. At which point I have to say do you think there's a bottomless pit of money for education? Obviously it has to be controlled by bean counters, society decides what they want to spend on it and successive Tory governments indicates not as much as you'd like. That's democracy, although the withering respect for the concept in this country is becoming alarming.

Having said that the right to protest should be upheld too. Let them crack on in my opinion, but my attitude is to ignore it and occasionally criticize it. Teachers have a worse rap than they used to but its still pretty decent.

[Mike E]

I've never actually looked into it, but I always believed teachers don't get paid on days we strike (so we are 'fined' in that respect, as it's not just a 'holiday'). Is that no longer the case?

In any case, today's strike is about the failure of Government to match funding to the rising cost of education. So the strike is for the benefit of children in the system; not the lazy assumption of it being about pay or pension.

[T J Hooker]

'Treat with respect' by the government

"Do there jobs how they see fit" as in it should be teachers that are in positions of authority deciding what subjects to teach, how to teach and how schools are run, not clueless public school educated politicians.

"Bean counters" in this case beurocraric puppets that are more intetested in watching the numbers, they're more intetested in hitting government set targets instead of helping the children get the lessons,teachin and general help they need.

I have teachers in my family and they're all overworked and stressed and they have all the satisfaction and joy that a job like teaching should give sucked right out of them.

[Mike E]

Just for consideration, I had a call today from a recruitment agency asking me to consider working abroad:

Middle East/UAE: Accommodation and flights paid for, massively reduced paperwork, and tax free salary.

China: Almost ditto. Not tax free, but miniscule cost of living offsets that.

(Removed a bit here, muddled my countries).

THAT is respect. I'm certainly going to mull it over.

[Biddy]

Sorry Mike, I think you are mixing up respect with normal cost of living (China in your example) and working in places that's hard to recruit for. Not really about respect. Also, I'd look into things a lot more if you are thinking about it seriously. Fairly sure from people who I knew whilst working at a previous company that Singapore in particular is very expensive cost of living wise.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/singapore?currency=GBP

[Mike E]

That's my mistake, no idea why I put Singapore. Phillipines! Even so, mixing up my countries laws their, muddled thinking. Removed.

It does appear to be a respect thing, though. They clearly WANT British teachers in those places and the reduction in paperwork (and focus on teaching) IS about respect. they want teachers to teach and not be full-time admin.

[Biddy]

Now you've made my reply look completely irrelevant!

I still don't think it is about respect. It is about market forces and trying to recruit in places where it is hard to recruit.

P.S. China only comes out at 18% cheaper than Manchester on average, food and entertainment being WAY dearer.

[ABBEY]

What a life .. Teachers waving strike flags sat in sun on the lash at side of Thames

[T J Hooker]

Gladly I(and most sensible others) take a lot of what you say with a pinch of salt as you do have a propensity to extremely exagerate things.

[ABBEY]

So are you saying I'm lying ?

You have no idea of anything about me so don't make stuff up .

[T J Hooker]

No! I've said you exagerate things very regularly on here, whether you realise you're doing it or not i dont know, but its makes it impossible to take a lot of what you post to seriously.(since you asked)

[Mike E]

Now you've made my reply look completely irrelevant!

I still don't think it is about respect. It is about market forces and trying to recruit in places where it is hard to recruit.

P.S. China only comes out at 18% cheaper than Manchester on average, food and entertainment being WAY dearer.

Sorry bud! I get where you're coming from, but if nothing else, it does let a teacher get on with actually teaching and not worrying so much about external factors like those pillocks Morgan and Gove.

Re: ABBEY, you know that inexperienced full time teachers (many many pals of mine, as I am one but on supply) work 13 months worth of hours in the 9 months in work? I reckon the holidays are deserved. Even the organised and experienced teachers I know work around 10months of hours in that 9months. It's a demanding job.

One day off (without pay) to stand up for the rights of children to have a properly funded education seems ok to me. They care more about children than many parents from what I've come across in Lancashire this last year, unfortunately.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Getting paid more and having to do less work for it isn't a matter of respect, like Biddy says it's market forces. Supply and demand, government tax revenue and budget allocation. Demanding respect makes teaching sound like some religious calling that we should all revere. Sorry but I don't think it's any more important or valuable than mine or anyone else's jobs.

We've done the hours debate previously Mike so I won't go into detail with it again. All I'll say is I don't buy the 70-80 hours a week claim, but do buy 50-60 hours having been told it first hand by teachers I know with zero propensity for exaggeration. Even so, that's hard graft, I don't deny it. However I also know from the same teachers that it's a well paid job over the course of a career, considerably above the national average. I also think benefits need to be taken into account more, as I said a teacher's pension is about a £2-3,000 per year tax free addition that I don't get (so a £4,000+ addition in wage terms) and I'd imagine there's a few other employee benefits knocking about too.

On this particular strike, the press line is it's for children's education in bold print and pay and conditions in brackets. The real line I suspect is the reverse.

[Mike E]

Okie doke, we all have opinions but ficusing on this strike...

Funding comes under 'conditions'. Education needs funding for children who aren't getting access. It's more to do with schools cutting back on TAs or class resources and (in some circumstances) not providing support to SEN (disabled) children that they were previously entitled to.

This particular strike has nothing to do with 'pay' and everything to with being able to do the job properly. However every strike comes under 'Pay and Conditions' collectively.

[Mike E]

A bit I missed (admittedly I'm biased, as it's the vocation I am in), but how on Earth is teaching the next generation of professionals (as well as scrotes) not important? Education is a Human Right, I doubt having a stacked shelf at a supermarket is.

The importance of education was summed up quite nicely in this quote/question:

'What if the cure for cancer would have been found sooner, but for it being trapped in the mind of someone without an education?'

I would argue it's up there with the Armed Forces, Emergency Forces, and Medical professions. Certainly above your average labourer, gardener, waiter, IT assistant, shelf stacker, or van driver (all jobs I've had, btw).

[T J Hooker]

A bit I missed (admittedly I'm biased, as it's the vocation I am in), but how on Earth is teaching the next generation of professionals (as well as scrotes) not important? Education is a Human Right, I doubt having a stacked shelf at a supermarket is.

The importance of education was summed up quite nicely in this quote/question:

'What if the cure for cancer would have been found sooner, but for it being trapped in the mind of someone without an education?'

I would argue it's up there with the Armed Forces, Emergency Forces, and Medical professions. Certainly above your average labourer, gardener, waiter, IT assistant, shelf stacker, or van driver (all jobs I've had, btw).

The profession itself should be seen in the same light as those you've mentioned, but like any profession, just being a teacher means nothing, its how good at it you are that matters, teachers themselves are just regular people, and like any random bunch of people you get some great folk and some absolute shitbags(most are just in between)

As for people that aren't in skilled professions i think its very unfair to compare yourself against them, I've met and worked with some brilliant and very tallented people that haven't got so much as a gcse or A level to their name, but for whatever reason other things have happened to them in their lives and they havent been able to or had chance to get a skilled profession(or they just have no clue as to what profession they'd be interested in enough to go through years of study etc.. to get there)

Without the People doing the kinds of jobs that you have listed(plus the ooos of similar level jobs out here) our society would come to a grinding halt pretty sharpish, So now thinking about it, as a collective i think they actually are just as important as people in any other profesion.

[ABBEY]

No! I've said you exagerate things very regularly on here, whether you realise you're doing it or not i dont know, but its makes it impossible to take a lot of what you post to seriously.(since you asked)

You chat crap

Sorry bud! I get where you're coming from, but if nothing else, it does let a teacher get on with actually teaching and not worrying so much about external factors like those pillocks Morgan and Gove.

Re: ABBEY, you know that inexperienced full time teachers (many many pals of mine, as I am one but on supply) work 13 months worth of hours in the 9 months in work? I reckon the holidays are deserved. Even the organised and experienced teachers I know work around 10months of hours in that 9months. It's a demanding job.

One day off (without pay) to stand up for the rights of children to have a properly funded education seems ok to me. They care more about children than many parents from what I've come across in Lancashire this last year, unfortunately.

I work many more hours than my scheduled .. So that point doesn't wash .

I will swap hours with any teacher if I too can have all they're time off .

A bit I missed (admittedly I'm biased, as it's the vocation I am in), but how on Earth is teaching the next generation of professionals (as well as scrotes) not important? Education is a Human Right, I doubt having a stacked shelf at a supermarket is.

The importance of education was summed up quite nicely in this quote/question:

'What if the cure for cancer would have been found sooner, but for it being trapped in the mind of someone without an education?'

I would argue it's up there with the Armed Forces, Emergency Forces, and Medical professions. Certainly above your average labourer, gardener, waiter, IT assistant, shelf stacker, or van driver (all jobs I've had, btw).

You ain't teached em owt today you've been dossing er striking

[T J Hooker]

You chat crap

And you're a @#/? thick, childish, moronic, attention seeking, loud mouth, drama queen along with being a sulky little cry baby mardy arsed bitch.

(Happy now mods/admin you've got what you wanted by letting him get away with this crap day after day, ban away if it makes your smug asses happy)

[K-Hod]

Nobody is smug TJ- would it kill you two to just leave each other alone?

[ABBEY]

And you're a @#/? thick, childish, moronic, attention seeking, loud mouth, drama queen.

(Happy now mods/admin you've got what you wanted by letting him get away with this crap day after day, ban away if it makes your smug asses happy)

How cute

[Mike E]

You chat crap

I work many more hours than my scheduled .. So that point doesn't wash .

I will swap hours with any teacher if I too can have all they're time off .

You ain't teached em owt today you've been dossing er striking

I wasn't on strike mate, different union

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Okie doke, we all have opinions but ficusing on this strike...

Funding comes under 'conditions'. Education needs funding for children who aren't getting access. It's more to do with schools cutting back on TAs or class resources and (in some circumstances) not providing support to SEN (disabled) children that they were previously entitled to.

This particular strike has nothing to do with 'pay' and everything to with being able to do the job properly. However every strike comes under 'Pay and Conditions' collectively.

Well sorry but I just don't believe it's all about the pupils. Obviously a teacher's job is easier the more other adults there are in the classroom, the point is it costs more (probably a lot more) to have them there and the government is trying to reduce the gaping hole in the budget. If my company had machinery that wasn't falling to bits then our customers would get their orders quicker and I'd work 7:30-5 instead of 7:30-5:30 or 6 every day. But we don't have the money and no government to demand it from. If we did and I was going on strike I'd say it was all about our dear, loyal consumers, the members of the public who I want to support me. Would it be? Yeah but it'd certainly be about me more!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

A bit I missed (admittedly I'm biased, as it's the vocation I am in), but how on Earth is teaching the next generation of professionals (as well as scrotes) not important? Education is a Human Right, I doubt having a stacked shelf at a supermarket is.

The importance of education was summed up quite nicely in this quote/question:

'What if the cure for cancer would have been found sooner, but for it being trapped in the mind of someone without an education?'

I would argue it's up there with the Armed Forces, Emergency Forces, and Medical professions. Certainly above your average labourer, gardener, waiter, IT assistant, shelf stacker, or van driver (all jobs I've had, btw).

Didn't say it wasn't important, I just don't buy into the magical aura that teachers have long strived to create around themselves. Forgive me for being cynical but it's a powerful bargaining chip if you've managed to convince everyone you're incredibly valuable and special.

It's interesting you compare it only to other services in importance, the public sector do tend to gang together and think a lot of themselves and each other. What about the people who create the wealth to pay all these people? Industrialists, entrepreneurs, inventors, researchers, even the bankers who rightly get a bad reputation for their failures but who over the years have generated immense wealth for the UK and London.

I get the feeling the likes of teachers have little respect for the importance of these professions whilst insisting people who work in them acknowledge the importance of theirs.

Or the other approach is the socialist option and acknowledge that all professions are equally valuable. Labourers, garderners, waiters, IT assistants, shelf-stackers and can drivers also pay teachers wages. Vocation or not, nobody does it for free. So do these professions not also contribute to educating the next generation's great and good. And what about farmers? It's more important to eat than it is to recieve education but I don't see much in the way of respect for them when everyone's ignoring their efforts to get supermarkets to stop ripping them off.