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[DE.]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

[Stuart]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Thanks Aristotle, we can all quote bygone sages, and rules for different times. The US are allowed to continue shoot each other on a daily basis because of such unchallengeable affirmations.

However, where do we draw the line? Do we continue to allow people who are known to the authorities and likely to commit acts of terror to do so?

How do we deal with organised, coordinated, targeted murder?

Once upon a time today's event would have sparked a holy war (which is what these extremists are hoping for) but how does 21st certury civilisation deal with it?

[Baz]

Thanks Aristotle, we can all quote bygone sages, and rules for different times. The US are allowed to continue shoot each other on a daily basis because of such unchallengeable affirmations.

However, where do we draw the line? Do we continue to allow people who are known to the authorities and likely to commit acts of terror to do so?

How do we deal with organised, coordinated, targeted murder?

Once upon a time today's event would have sparked a holy war (which is what these extremists are hoping for) but how does 21st certury civilisation deal with it?

You simply cannot lock everyone up who may be likely to commit acts of terror, as that is someones judgement. If there is evidence of them planning, or taking part in an act of terror- then thats a suitable reason to do so.

As for how do we deal with it, well our intelligence services are key, as is taking back the IS territories, and cutting that organisation off at its knees by denying it both funding and media coverage.

The Intelligence services are doing a fantastic job, the kurds are doing a good job of taking back land, and even hacker groups like anonymous are shutting down thousands of IS Twitter and Facebook accounts every day.

Sometimes it doesn't feel enough, but unless you are going to get a fully muslim UN force in ground combat with IS, or fund the kurds better, I don't think theres a lot more we currently can do.

[Amo]

Once upon a time today's event would have sparked a holy war (which is what these extremists are hoping for) but how does 21st certury civilisation deal with it?

Good question, Stu, and I'm not sure you're going to find an answer.

We went into the Middle East and destabilized the area because their leaders didn't serve our interests anymore, but instead of imposing our "democratic" values we've created a breeding ground for ISIS and an influx of refugees that will irrevocably change the face of Europe.

[DE.]

Thanks Aristotle, we can all quote bygone sages, and rules for different times. The US are allowed to continue shoot each other on a daily basis because of such unchallengeable affirmations.

Ironically enough that quote comes from Benjamin Franklin.

[Husky]

What's the point in being under house arrest with an electronic tag if it's turned off several hours a day to allow the person to leave the house?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

What's the point in being under house arrest with an electronic tag if it's turned off several hours a day to allow the person to leave the house?

Control costs money, an absolute truckload of money. Control of millions of people in the Muslim community, where murderers seem to spawn at random, is virtually impossible.

All the teachers, nurses, policeman, any other public sector department out there, need to have a good hard think about what this country is being forced to spend its money on. Because ethnic minorities, specifically Muslim ones, cost an absolute fortune to keep in line.

[gumboots]

I taught largely muslim children!

[yoda]

Good question, Stu, and I'm not sure you're going to find an answer.

We went into the Middle East and destabilized the area because their leaders didn't serve our interests anymore, but instead of imposing our "democratic" values we've created a breeding ground for ISIS and an influx of refugees that will irrevocably change the face of Europe.

The middle east has been unstable for thousands of years, long before we ever got there.

I taught largely muslim children!

That would be during the day.

[Al]

Is this true Al?

(I've not lived in East Lancs since 1995 so it is a genuine question)

I've not witnessed it myself as I have moved out of Blackburn (not far) but friends who still live there tell me it goes on.

[Audax]

Darn chilling articles here:

This first one, I can't vouch for nor the 2nd one. It sure makes one wonder.

England Allows Entry of Pakistani Extremists for Speaking Tour

The preachers supported an assassin of a liberal governor who spoke against blasphemy law. One was welcomed by the archbishop of Canterbury.

https://www.clarionproject.org/news/england-allows-entry-pakistani-extremists-speaking-tour

That Sun undercover Jihadi is a frightening story.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1513269/sun-investigation-exposes-isis-sick-car-bomb-bid-to-strike-at-heart-of-uk/

[K-Hod]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-stamped-mans-head-high-8507622- just imagine if this had been the other way around......

[donnermeat]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-stamped-mans-head-high-8507622- just imagine if this had been the other way around......

That's a rather unfortunate surname the victim has.

[K-Hod]

That's a rather unfortunate surname the victim has.

Haha, I spotted that, I bet school was challenging for him.....

[Tom]

Ridiculous that she is acquitted for that but it's no surprise

[Stuart]

Chris Evans Sex Offence Investigation Dropped

http://news.sky.com/story/chris-evans-sex-offence-investigation-dropped-10515507

Charges dropped due to insufficient evidence.

Ok. So that does not clear him but does not exonerate him either, and is worse than a day in court. But, let's say that the statement is factual.

One person has made an allegation and the other has denied it. One word against the other. So, in effect, he might have done it but he might not. Still not much better. But if he has to be humiliated in public and has a blemish on his character as he has been pubically named, why isn't the accuser also named? That way, the world could (for the 5 minutes it actually cared) equally doubt the integrity of both of them.

She may have lied or she may not. But nobody will ever know who she is.

If the accuser has the protection of anonymity - in some cases even if they are proven to be a liar (!) - then the accused should also have that right until proven guilty in court. Not even at the stage they are charged.

[Al]

I'm not keen on Chris Evans but his name has been tarnished without any proof. Same thing happened to Cliff Richard but the accusers names are never disclosed. It is ridiculous that the newspapers should be allowed to disclose their names until they have been found guilty. A couple of Coronation Street actors missed out on a year's salary because of sex accusations. The accusers should be made to compensate them when their cases are not proven. It would stop the attention seekers from making money out of selling their stories to the press.

[DE.]

If the accuser has the protection of anonymity - in some cases even if they are proven to be a liar (!) - then the accused should also have that right until proven guilty in court. Not even at the stage they are charged.

Agreed. The national press get away with far too much with the old "in the public interest" excuse. There should be a serious crackdown on the red top rags, as their stories are sometimes as damaging if not more so than the court case/litigation itself!

[Baz]

The press should be made to publish retractions of stories and apologies on the same page and same size of the page, as they used when they publish allegations.

That should ensure a bit more checking of stories/ sources.

[Mike E]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/29/this-beautiful-dog-will-be-killed-this-week-even-though-hes-never-done-anything-wrong-6036647/

This upset me today, a dog is to be killed for doing nothing wrong but being a certain breed. Last week there was a Facebook post about a microchipped, family dog being killed by police because someone reported it for 'looking like a pitbull-type'.

Just like killing people for having a certain skin colour, to my mind. It's ok to apply Hitler's ideology to dogs.

[yoda]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/29/this-beautiful-dog-will-be-killed-this-week-even-though-hes-never-done-anything-wrong-6036647/

This upset me today, a dog is to be killed for doing nothing wrong but being a certain breed. Last week there was a Facebook post about a microchipped, family dog being killed by police because someone reported it for 'looking like a pitbull-type'.

Just like killing people for having a certain skin colour, to my mind. It's ok to apply Hitler's ideology to dogs.

Over the top there, they are complying with the law.

Contact your local MP and get the law changed.

[Mike E]

Already done.

'Hitler's ideology' isn't over-the-top imo (although I can see why people think it's dramatic).

Pedigree dogs are reflective of eugenics, and the only pedigree dogs I have will be from a rescue.

Killing a dog for being a certain breed is a lot like killing people just for being Jewish imo.

It may be a tasteless comparison (even I think so), but I believe it to be an appropriate one. Punish the dogs (the owners moreso) that do bad things, not the ones that are just existing but we're born with the 'wrong look'.

[yoda]

Already done.

'Hitler's ideology' isn't over-the-top imo (although I can see why people think it's dramatic).

Pedigree dogs are reflective of eugenics, and the only pedigree dogs I have will be from a rescue.

Killing a dog for being a certain breed is a lot like killing people just for being Jewish imo.

It may be a tasteless comparison (even I think so), but I believe it to be an appropriate one. Punish the dogs (the owners moreso) that do bad things, not the ones that are just existing but we're born with the 'wrong look'.

Is the dog not being put down because it was not chipped so no history can be verified.

The 4 breeds have been banned for a reason, probably as a result of irresponsible owners but the intention of the law is to make us safer.

[Al]

Battersea normally keep stray dogs until they find a new owner. This dog is being put down because it is a pit bull type not because it is not chipped.

[yoda]

Battersea normally keep stray dogs until they find a new owner. This dog is being put down because it is a pit bull type not because it is not chipped.

Nothing to do with Hitler then