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[Baz]

No I wouldn't .

Why not?

[yoda]

WW2 was a @#/?-up war with atrocities committed on both sides. You just don't hear so much about them because "history is written by the victors".

I don't think the victors built special trains and camps to carry out genocide though

[Amo]

I don't think the victors built special trains and camps to carry out genocide though

Never heard of the Rheinwiesenlager, I take it?

And that's without getting into the firebombing and nuking of civilian targets, and the mass raping of innocent German women.

Let's not forget that dear old "Uncle Joe" starved millions of Ukrainians to death in the years leading up to the war. Most people will stare blankly when you mention the Holodomor, but every man on the street knows about what the Nazis did. You have to ask yourself why.

[JBiz]

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[ABBEY]

Why not?

because i wouldnt want her to be forced to wearing a burqua and being treated like @#/? by scumbags

As opposed to some of the 14 years I teach and work with everyday who where born here and are basically scum who waste their own opportunities!

I know what I'd prefer!

such a nice way to talk about your pupils ..

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Never heard of the Rheinwiesenlager, I take it?

And that's without getting into the firebombing and nuking of civilian targets, and the mass raping of innocent German women.

Let's not forget that dear old "Uncle Joe" starved millions of Ukrainians to death in the years leading up to the war. Most people will stare blankly when you mention the Holodomor, but every man on the street knows about what the Nazis did. You have to ask yourself why.

Just looked Rheinwiesenlager up. Temporary prisoner of war camps built as the only way to deal with millions of POWs during the European advance. 3-10,000 died due to exposure and starvation. Comparing them to Nazi concentration camps is absurd. The aim wasn't to kill the POWs and the fact that some did die is likely entirely logistical reasons. The huge numbers of POWs involved, the intense fighting that was pre-occupying the Allies and the fact that Britain especially was down to the absolute bare bones by then resources wise. Our own civilians would have been dyeing of starvation at the same time were it not for rationing which had to continue for 9 years after the war.

Bombing and nuking Japanese cities, I agree probably excessive but they weren't for surrendering were they? The fact that they didn't surrender after a nuke hit one of their cities shows how pathologically warlike the Japanese were at the time. After fighting such an enemy for so long in the deadliest conflict ever seen (made the IS war look like a flicking contest), I think the context makes America's decision understandable.

As for the mass rapes by Soviet troops (also carried out on free'd Soviet female prisoners apparently) and the deliberately Ukrainian famine, well I agree with you on those. Stalin was almost as bad as Hitler in my book.

[Baz]

Just looked Rheinwiesenlager up. Temporary prisoner of war camps built as the only way to deal with millions of POWs during the European advance. 3-10,000 died due to exposure and starvation. Comparing them to Nazi concentration camps is absurd. The aim wasn't to kill the POWs and the fact that some did die is likely entirely logistical reasons. The huge numbers of POWs involved, the intense fighting that was pre-occupying the Allies and the fact that Britain especially was down to the absolute bare bones by then resources wise. Our own civilians would have been dyeing of starvation at the same time were it not for rationing which had to continue for 9 years after the war.

Bombing and nuking Japanese cities, I agree probably excessive but they weren't for surrendering were they? The fact that they didn't surrender after a nuke hit one of their cities shows how pathologically warlike the Japanese were at the time. After fighting such an enemy for so long in the deadliest conflict ever seen (made the IS war look like a flicking contest), I think the context makes America's decision understandable.

As for the mass rapes by Soviet troops (also carried out on free'd Soviet female prisoners apparently) and the deliberately Ukrainian famine, well I agree with you on those. Stalin was almost as bad as Hitler in my book.

I think you are also forgetting the terrible atrocities committed by the Japanese in their POW camps. Those POWs in Europe got away very lightly in comparison.

[JBiz]

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[yoda]

You aren't exactly talking nicely about some of my pupils who are Muslim. 99% from decent, law abiding and most importantly - families who are responsible for their children.

As I said, a percentage of all walks are life are "bad". Having prejudices about this being a result of where they come from and what book they read - intolerance. I'm not discussing it any further.

Head in sand

[ABBEY]

You aren't exactly talking nicely about some of my pupils who are Muslim. 99% from decent, law abiding and most importantly - families who are responsible for their children.

As I said, a percentage of all walks are life are "bad". Having prejudices about this being a result of where they come from and what book they read - intolerance. I'm not discussing it any further.

I have not mentioned "your pupils " ...you did

As opposed to some of the 14 years I teach and work with everyday who where born here and are basically scum who waste their own opportunities!

I know what I'd prefer!

[JBiz]

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[yoda]

No reply to content, just a remark intent on what exactly?

Just highlighting that some people like to take the ball away when the game is not going well

[Dreyski]

Sometimes better to take the ball away than have your words twisted, ignored, and insulted.

[JBiz]

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[yoda]

As I said, discussion is over because it's pointless. What is the point discussing immigration with people with prejudice? Basic stereotyping, believing anything they "want" to believe?

It's one thing having a right or left leaning idea of politics, it's another to swallow the tremendous BS of tabloids and/or Facebook click bait designed to do nothing but stir up hysteria.

Why does it have to be right or left, why can't it be what is required

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

No problem with the part where I spelt out what I see as intolerant, antiquated and basically hateful views then?

Comical whilst describing your white working class pupils as scum.

As for Yoda's comment, I saw it more as one of the many available options for taking a deliberately short-sighted view. You find Asian pupils easier to teach, a characteristic you seem to assign to family values. Contrasting with your scum comment about perhaps the single-parent or hedonistic characteristics of white parents.

So, your Asian pupils are easier to teach, that is good, end of discussion. Anyone who digs deeper than this is racist? Well I'm digging. Family values are great, I'm all for it. What about women being inferior to men? What about homosexuality being illegal? Insulting Islam worthy of death? Blasphemy worthy of death? Infidelity worthy of death? Intolerance of religious/atheist freedom, of the freedom to drink alcohol, use some advanced medical procedures, borrow money etc etc.

Eventually this country will become a predominantly Muslim one. It's a mathematical inevitability. I do wonder whether the main reason my concern at the long-term threat to British values contrasting with others seemingly not caring at all is their inability to realise this. Either a maths ability issue or a reluctance to really think about it.

Some Muslim countries are ultra strict on all the "sins" I mentioned above, some on maybe half of the above. But there has never yet been a long-term predominantly Muslim country with a live and let live attitude to all of the above.

So unless this breakthrough in taking Islam less seiously happens, for the first time in one and a half millenia since its birth, then generations from now we will lose some freedoms we currently have. I took the head in the sand comment to mean your ancestors might not value a less unruly teaching class as highly by comparison when that starts happening.

[Husky]

So those attacks on women by Muslims didn't happen and it was all made up .do you think that the ones who got off the bus at Croydon where children ? Who are you Gary linekers mate ? Pah Gary lineker and morals ha ha

And I've been hearing for a few years now about shocking sexual attacks by 'migrants' in Sweden and Norway.

Yes these kind of things do make for 'good' headlines for newspapers - but the most sinister thing is that they AREN'T MAKING THE HEADLINES. In fact the government, media and police seem to be doing everything they can to cover them up.

If you do any research on the subject you can find loads. But as usual you have to go digging.

I'm so glad I'm not female . . . and I'd never want to have a daughter.

As for Lineker, well he's another in a long line of media prats that don't live in the real world. Also a quick fact check says he has 4 sons. Perhaps he'd feel differently if his teenage daughter was being courted by a 26 year old migrant 'child' chasing an easy 'whore'.

[JBiz]

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[yoda]

Firstly, wrong end of the stick. I said some, and I said 99% or most (cba checking it) for both groups. Hence the point about a percentage of all groups being casually ignored for the sake of this reply to absolutely nothing I intended.

I teach good kids and bad kids of all groups, boys and girls. There is no one group better, however there are trends - this isn't the point though.

The point you missed is I spelt out how ridiculous it is to believe someone 25-35 is sat next to your 14 year old at school, and they are likely going to force her into a certain dress...

How much more ridiculous could it be?

... I wasn't sure but then you topped it with the "inevitable to be a Muslim country" ...

Just what do you base this on?

For every Asian kid from a family who disrespects women, there's a British/white/ whatever child with no mum or dad for selfish reasons. This fear of a religion is exactly what people want.

If there is anything to fear in this country, it's the impact that shelving and bundling services off, health, emergency, social etc all will impact you and your family.

Ignore that and continue to worry about the small percentage of a group who hide behind the words of thousand year old book and a media with more agenda than Tory donor..

Lost for words. Don't worry about your daughters if they have white boyfriends, lads.

Which people?

Is it not the religion that some people fear but the medieval outlook that some would impose on the host country

[jim mk2]

Comical whilst describing your white working class pupils as scum.

e currently have. I took the head in the sand comment to mean your ancestors might not value a less unruly teaching class as highly by comparison when that starts happening.

Hysterical hogwash from beginning to end.

[Baz]

Comical whilst describing your white working class pupils as scum.

As for Yoda's comment, I saw it more as one of the many available options for taking a deliberately short-sighted view. You find Asian pupils easier to teach, a characteristic you seem to assign to family values. Contrasting with your scum comment about perhaps the single-parent or hedonistic characteristics of white parents.

So, your Asian pupils are easier to teach, that is good, end of discussion. Anyone who digs deeper than this is racist? Well I'm digging. Family values are great, I'm all for it. What about women being inferior to men? What about homosexuality being illegal? Insulting Islam worthy of death? Blasphemy worthy of death? Infidelity worthy of death? Intolerance of religious/atheist freedom, of the freedom to drink alcohol, use some advanced medical procedures, borrow money etc etc.

Eventually this country will become a predominantly Muslim one. It's a mathematical inevitability. I do wonder whether the main reason my concern at the long-term threat to British values contrasting with others seemingly not caring at all is their inability to realise this. Either a maths ability issue or a reluctance to really think about it.

Some Muslim countries are ultra strict on all the "sins" I mentioned above, some on maybe half of the above. But there has never yet been a long-term predominantly Muslim country with a live and let live attitude to all of the above.

So unless this breakthrough in taking Islam less seiously happens, for the first time in one and a half millenia since its birth, then generations from now we will lose some freedoms we currently have. I took the head in the sand comment to mean your ancestors might not value a less unruly teaching class as highly by comparison when that starts happening.

A fine example of Islamaphobia. As for women being inferior to men, homosexuality etc....these where all pretty mainstream in this country until not long ago (see Alan Turing). Good job we have the left wing liberals leading the way to those right-wingers on these matters

True there are some extreme parts of the Islamic faith who are exactly what you are saying, however the vast majority are far more liberal. Many families that have been in the UK for several generations are increasingly integrated with what is seen as British traditions.

Before we become a muslim country (in many generations time) my feeling is that there will be no real division between the two, and by which time anyway most will be not be active religiously, similar to the % of christians who attend church regularly.

Who knows these refugees may be as good for us as Marks (& Spencer), Mo Farrah, Shefki Kuqi or Freddie Mercury.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

... I wasn't sure but then you topped it with the "inevitable to be a Muslim country" ...

Just what do you base this on?

As I feared to be honest. I find it incredible that people don't get this. That so many people aren't even close to getting it is scary. I'll go through it anyway, this is for England:

The average children per fully westernised family has been extensively reported as being below self-sufficiency across the western world for a while now. The white race (and Japanese for that matter) is declining in numbers because they aren't having 2 kids per family on average. In England the white population is currently about 40 million, let's say the birth rate is 1.75 kids per family, on that basis 2 generations from now (about 2065) it'll be about 30 million.

I doubt there are any stats on the birth rate of Muslim families in this country so let's just try to be honest based on anecdotal evidence. I would say 4 kids per family on average. Meaning the existing Muslim population in this country doubles roughly every generation (25 years). It's currently about 7 million, by 2065 it'll be 28 million.

Then add in the immigration figures. 300,000 per year. Well a few years ago that was 150,000. Mainstream parties seem unwilling/unable to tackle it so estimate it tops out at 500,000. Again, lets be honest, the vast majority are Muslim. Say 450,000 are. By 2065 that's 50 years x 450,000 additional Muslims, about 22.5 million. Add the 28 million in the paragraph above, approx 50 million.

And I haven't even factored in the family growth of any immigrants over the next 50 years. Maybe people don't get it because it's like compound interest, it starts slow and accelerates. In any case it's abolutely inevitable. Let's just hope integration has worked by then.

[Baz]

As I feared to be honest. I find it incredible that people don't get this. That so many people aren't even close to getting it is scary. I'll go through it anyway, this is for England:

The average children per fully westernised family has been extensively reported as being below self-sufficiency across the western world for a while now. The white race (and Japanese for that matter) is declining in numbers because they aren't having 2 kids per family on average. In England the white population is currently about 40 million, let's say the birth rate is 1.75 kids per family, on that basis 2 generations from now (about 2065) it'll be about 30 million.

I doubt there are any stats on the birth rate of Muslim families in this country so let's just try to be honest based on anecdotal evidence. I would say 4 kids per family on average. Meaning the existing Muslim population in this country doubles roughly every generation (25 years). It's currently about 7 million, by 2065 it'll be 28 million.

Then add in the immigration figures. 300,000 per year. Well a few years ago that was 150,000. Mainstream parties seem unwilling/unable to tackle it so estimate it tops out at 500,000. Again, lets be honest, the vast majority are Muslim. Say 450,000 are. By 2065 that's 50 years x 450,000 additional Muslims, about 22.5 million. Add the 28 million in the paragraph above, approx 50 million.

And I haven't even factored in the family growth of any immigrants over the next 50 years. Maybe people don't get it because it's like compound interest, it starts slow and accelerates. In any case it's abolutely inevitable. Let's just hope integration has worked by then.

So no reliable evidence whatsoever to back up your assertion then?

[Husky]

I don't know about you guys but I don't know any non-Muslim guy that's dating a Muslim girl. Which seems very strange considering we live in such a multicultural society and Islam is such an open religion where women are free to chose. Not to mention the fact that it's been that way for decades.

Anyway, moving on, the point is this: Islam is a completely alien religion that's not set-up for integration into Westernised society.

[Baz]

I don't know about you guys but I don't know any non-Muslim guy that's dating a Muslim girl. Which seems very strange considering we live in such a multicultural society and Islam is such an open religion where women are free to chose. Not to mention the fact that it's been that way for decades.

Anyway, moving on, the point is this: Islam is a completely alien religion that's not set-up for integration into Westernised society.

I know several who are happily married.