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[Steve Moss]

There are different morays in different cultures. In the West, we give women the same freedoms as men. Other cultures do not. But if you import people, you import their culture and worldview. And that means you change the USA and the U.K. Not necessarily for the better.

An Arab friend of mine told me this joke, which illustrates a difference in world view.

"Three women are chatting, a French, an American and an Arab.

The French says: "After we got married, I told my husband right away that I was not going to cook, do dishes and laundry or clean the house. He disappeared, I didn't see him for a day, two, three, then he came back with a housemaid. Now she does all that, and I just sit and relax all day long."

The American says: "Well, after we got married, I told my husband the same. Didn't see him for a day, two, three, then he came back with some big appliance. Now it does all that automatically, and I just sit and relax all day long."

The Arab says: "After we got married, I told my husband that I wouldn't do all that either. I didn't see him for a day, two, three. On the fourth day I was finally able to see something with my right eye."

It sounds funny, until one thinks that it could be your sister, daughter or granddaughter caught up in that culture which tolerates that kind of abuse of women.

It's fairly obvious that liberals in both parties import immigrants to win elections and (short term) prop up finances. And long term, it will be the death of Western liberalism.

But who cares so long as migrants are voting correctly and paying for seniors pensions, right? The short sightedness of some is staggering.

[Audax]

Speaking of the hijab and all of that, that gal went out in Saudi Arabia not wearing these traditional clothes; this story is all over the news from whatever source.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2312363/woman-in-saudi-arabia-faces-calls-for-her-execution-after-being-pictured-without-a-hijab/

Diversity for us but not for them. That's the tolerance.

[joey_big_nose]

  On 02/12/2016 at 13:52, ABBEY said:

How many planes did the IRA fly into buildings ?

None in the UK, and neither have Islamic extremists.

There are always going to be people who want to murder indiscriminately. Whether religious or political or racial fanatics, ultimately the political and judicial system needs to find and contain them while protecting the rights and liberties of the population at large. What you don't want to do, unless absolutely necessary, is breakdown hundreds of years of social, individual and judicial liberties to contain the threat. Especially when the threat, compared to many we have faced in our history, is not actually that large.

[ABBEY]

IRA didn't behead a soldier on our streets or celebrate 9/11 like the islamists do .

[joey_big_nose]

  On 02/12/2016 at 19:37, ABBEY said:

IRA didn't behead a soldier on our streets or celebrate 9/11 like the islamists do .

There would have been quite a few fanatics living in the UK who celebrated the Birmingham and Brighton bombings. It's hardly an exceptional situation.

[Audax]

  On 02/12/2016 at 18:00, joey_big_nose said:

None in the UK, and neither have Islamic extremists.

There are always going to be people who want to murder indiscriminately. Whether religious or political or racial fanatics, ultimately the political and judicial system needs to find and contain them while protecting the rights and liberties of the population at large. What you don't want to do, unless absolutely necessary, is breakdown hundreds of years of social, individual and judicial liberties to contain the threat. Especially when the threat, compared to many we have faced in our history, is not actually that large.

Lockerbie went down.

Also, the most horrid terrorist group ever as I said earlier, Daesh, ISIS, has had some 600 recruits from the UK.

Also, I think they say Muslims don't like dogs, so maybe in that way, the IRA is better.

[Baz]

  On 02/12/2016 at 14:23, Steve Kean's Hypnotoad said:

Wouldn't say frightening but I'd say it's unnerving for 2 reasons:

1. The Niqab is an example of hardline Islam. When women are wearing that rather than say a Hijab, its because they (or more likely their husbands) have chosen to suscribe to a more severe, less tolerant interpretation of Islam. I posted at length on a previous page about the hundreds of thousands of people a year globally who are dyeing due to intolerant interpretations of Islam. Is it not a worrying thing to see a rise in Niqabs and a fall in Hijabs on Blackburn's streets?

2. The grooming and abuse of white girls by Asian gangs across northern towns in particular was in part due to the total lack of respect or consideration that these girls had any worth, which was in part driven by how they dressed. If more and more women in towns like Blackburn are walking around in a black baggy full body sheet with a small eye hole, will that not lead to further discrimination against say a woman who's wearing heels, a thigh high skirt and a tight top? You'd be a very brave woman to walk around like that in some areas of Blackburn these days, which is a depressing notion in a 21st century western society. It's not an issue i can see the feminists rushing to tackle though, that's for sure.

Re point 2 - the problem is paedophilia, not religion. For every Rotherham theres several Barry Bennell, the common link is abusers, not religion.

Id agree there is an issue with the way SOME Muslim women are treated, but I also believe theres a massive and growing trend of young men of all (& no) faiths trying to control women as objects of possession, domestic violence etc. Do I like women covering themselves, not particularly, but equally I don't feel frightened or threatened by it either. On the news today there was the conviction of a man for killing his ex-girlfriend (and her mother) because she was ignoring him - he'd beaten her for their entire relationship, the police had been called over 20 times for their arguments, he had a banning order from court to not be within so many meters of her house, but even though he had broken off their relationship to go with another girl, he couldn't handle her ignoring him so broke in and killed her and her disabled mother. Karen Danczuk has had her brother convicted of raping her this week etc. The ONS is reporting a large increase in domestic abuse in the last 10 years, bucking the overall trend of reducing violent crime. Whilst I recognise everyone will look at something with some bias (including me), at times on here that bias is so selective it's frightening - eg I see Abbey on another thread kind of claiming that the IRA are a more noble terrorist than ISIS - to me there is little difference.

[Paul]

A neo-Nazi, right wing white supremacist terrorist executes an MP on the street. Hardly a murmur.

350 victims report child abuse and a further 860 make calls to the NSPCC help line in one week. 17 police forces across the country are investigating. This is happening in football, the sport this place is about. A total of three posts as far as I can see.

Very telling in my view.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

  On 03/12/2016 at 00:13, Paul said:

A neo-Nazi, right wing white supremacist terrorist executes an MP on the street. Hardly a murmur.

350 victims report child abuse and a further 860 make calls to the NSPCC help line in one week. 17 police forces across the country are investigating. This is happening in football, the sport this place is about. A total of three posts as far as I can see.

Very telling in my view.

I said the guy who murdered Jo Cox should be tried as a terrorist, put away for life, that he was a horrible excuse for a human being and that no Leave voter would want to associate with such a cretin.

How about the event that happened 4 days prior to that to which most people on here, including you, expressed no negative thoughts at all on the gunman? Very telling indeed.

[Audax]

And that Polish man killed, another tragedy.

[ABBEY]

  On 03/12/2016 at 00:13, Paul said:

A neo-Nazi, right wing white supremacist terrorist executes an MP on the street. Hardly a murmur.

350 victims report child abuse and a further 860 make calls to the NSPCC help line in one week. 17 police forces across the country are investigating. This is happening in football, the sport this place is about. A total of three posts as far as I can see.

Very telling in my view.

It was commented on back when it happened and disgust expressed , which group currently is more a threat to world peace ? A nutter who tragecilly killed an mp or Islamists trying to take over the world .

Funny how you are making a point about the dirty nonce coaches and only a few posts on it (I have commented ) yet you have not . Now that's telling .

[Paul]

  On 03/12/2016 at 03:08, Steve Kean said:

How about the event that happened 4 days prior to that to which most people on here, including you, expressed no negative thoughts at all on the gunman? Very telling indeed.

I don't know what you're referring to but I'll happily respond if you could expand on it. I've tried Google but not enough to go on.

The point is the predominant times these types of event are discussed is when the perpetrator(s) are thought to be Muslim. I'd like to know why this is. I've raised the question on many occasions but it is rarely, if ever, responded to.

If one reads these threads it's a fair point

[Paul]

  On 03/12/2016 at 08:06, ABBEY said:

It was commented on back when it happened and disgust expressed , which group currently is more a threat to world peace ? A nutter who tragecilly killed an mp or Islamists trying to take over the world .

Funny how you are making a point about the dirty nonce coaches and only a few posts on it (I have commented ) yet you have not . Now that's telling .

I don't need to comment because I don't spend my time railing against these things from any perspective. There are people who frequently comment about these events when migrants, Muslims etc. are involved. I'm just asking why?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

  On 03/12/2016 at 08:10, Paul said:

I don't know what you're referring to but I'll happily respond if you could expand on it. I've tried Google but not enough to go on.

The point is the predominant times these types of event are discussed is when the perpetrator(s) are thought to be Muslim. I'd like to know why this is. I've raised the question on many occasions but it is rarely, if ever, responded to.

If one reads these threads it's a fair point

Referring to the Orlando gunman who killed 49 times as many people as Jo Cox's murderer. Tom M got stuck into him but not many others at all did.

Yeah I agree it is a fair point. I suppose everyone has a subconscious filtering mechanism that focuses them on things that back up the issues they consider particularly important. You're right, the forum content would be more varied if people (myself definitely included!) worked on that. But it's certainly not a phenomena confined to one "side". There are many on here who will never criticise anything ethnic or religious minority related under any circumstance.

[Al]

  On 02/12/2016 at 20:09, joey_big_nose said:

There would have been quite a few fanatics living in the UK who celebrated the Birmingham and Brighton bombings. It's hardly an exceptional situation.

Does that make celebrating 9/11 acceptable then. A lot of Blackburn based Muslims do it. I can't understand why a lot of Lefties find this tolerable.

[Al]

  On 03/12/2016 at 08:17, Paul said:

I don't need to comment because I don't spend my time railing against these things from any perspective. There are people who frequently comment about these events when migrants, Muslims etc. are involved. I'm just asking why?

Because militant Muslims are probably currently the major threat to world peace. Deny it if you wish but it is the truth.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

  On 03/12/2016 at 11:00, Al said:

Because militant Muslims are probably currently the major threat to world peace. Deny it if you wish but it is the truth.

Absolutely the biggest threat. And to be honest its not really a threat anymore, they are actually just wrecking world peace right now. IS, Al Qaeda and Boko Haram in particular are the embodiment of pure evil in the world.

[joey_big_nose]

  On 03/12/2016 at 10:54, Al said:

Does that make celebrating 9/11 acceptable then. A lot of Blackburn based Muslims do it. I can't understand why a lot of Lefties find this tolerable.

I don't think it's acceptable at all. My only point is it is something we have dealt with in the past by trying people as individuals, and applying the rule of law on a nondiscriminating basis. We need to continue in that vein which has lifted us out of the dark ages.

Nothing in the current situation with Islamic terrorism suggests to me that needs to change.

If you lot had lived in an earlier time and had your way you would have suspended habeas corpus and been imprisoning suspected Irish/communists/Catholics/fascists etc etc in the tower without trial and we would be right back to the 1600s.

It's daft and we are all above it, and need to be above it. People are individuals in front of the law, whatever their religion, politics or ethnicity.

[yoda]

  On 03/12/2016 at 21:42, joey_big_nose said:

I don't think it's acceptable at all. My only point is it is something we have dealt with in the past by trying people as individuals, and applying the rule of law on a nondiscriminating basis. We need to continue in that vein which has lifted us out of the dark ages.

Nothing in the current situation with Islamic terrorism suggests to me that needs to change.

If you lot had lived in an earlier time and had your way you would have suspended habeas corpus and been imprisoning suspected Irish/communists/Catholics/fascists etc etc in the tower without trial and we would be right back to the 1600s.

It's daft and we are all above it, and need to be above it. People are individuals in front of the law, whatever their religion, politics or ethnicity.

We need a bigger boat

[Baz]

  On 03/12/2016 at 10:54, Al said:

Does that make celebrating 9/11 acceptable then. A lot of Blackburn based Muslims do it. I can't understand why a lot of Lefties find this tolerable.

Who finds it tolerable?

[Al]

  On 03/12/2016 at 21:42, joey_big_nose said:

I don't think it's acceptable at all. My only point is it is something we have dealt with in the past by trying people as individuals, and applying the rule of law on a nondiscriminating basis. We need to continue in that vein which has lifted us out of the dark ages.

Nothing in the current situation with Islamic terrorism suggests to me that needs to change.

If you lot had lived in an earlier time and had your way you would have suspended habeas corpus and been imprisoning suspected Irish/communists/Catholics/fascists etc etc in the tower without trial and we would be right back to the 1600s.

It's daft and we are all above it, and need to be above it. People are individuals in front of the law, whatever their religion, politics or ethnicity.

It's a bit late to try them after they have killed a bunch of people. Is it not better to deport them as soon as they are found to be militants as enemies of the people? I agree that there is little you can do before they declare themselves as haters.

[joey_big_nose]

  On 04/12/2016 at 12:06, Al said:

It's a bit late to try them after they have killed a bunch of people. Is it not better to deport them as soon as they are found to be militants as enemies of the people? I agree that there is little you can do before they declare themselves as haters.

You write and pass a law which allows you to try people who break it, which is exactly what has happened with inciting hatred and violence legislation.

The main issue around hate preachers is deportation is difficult as they are usually either under violent threat wherever you could feasibly deport them to or the country won't take them.

[yoda]

  On 04/12/2016 at 17:51, joey_big_nose said:

You write and pass a law which allows you to try people who break it, which is exactly what has happened with inciting hatred and violence legislation.

The main issue around hate preachers is deportation is difficult as they are usually either under violent threat wherever you could feasibly deport them to or the country won't take them.

see post 3484,

bigger boat required

[Husky]

I was just doing a news vanity search for Blackburn . . .

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/739614/muslims-isolated-uk-britain-islamic-dame-louise-casey-review

1995 is well and truly over.

[yoda]

  On 04/12/2016 at 20:27, Husky said:

I was just doing a news vanity search for Blackburn . . .

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/739614/muslims-isolated-uk-britain-islamic-dame-louise-casey-review

1995 is well and truly over.

What's with all the arses up in the air and facing the same way, is the Imam on his rounds ?