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[Al]

So we should be suspicious of all Muslims as Terrorists?

Suspicious? Yes! No worse for being watched.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

It absolutely has to be Trump, he's the next leader of the free world, and if any coalition force was to be raised, it would have to be led by US forces. There's no one else going to do it. Not saying it's right, but in reality it's not going to be anyone else.

I don't deny that at present most active terrorist groups are Islamic, but that's not causality unique to Islam, almost all acts of terrorism in history have been based on religion or political ideology of some kind. The truth is that the vast majority of people from whatever religious beliefs are not terrorists, or want any part of it - even if they share some religious beliefs with the terrorists, or want some of the same things - like Northern Ireland.

Oh he could raise a coalition, but it would have to be without UN authorisation. The UN did nothing in Darfur as 300,000 civilians were killed by the Sudanese government, its done nothing about IS, nothing about Boko Haram even after the high profile schoolgirl kidnapping. At some point we must recognise that it will never intervene in military problems.

I agree terrorism isn’t unique to Islam and the vast majority of Muslims aren’t terrorists. If it was a black and white issue then that’s the line you’d plump for because it’s the most accurate approximation. But I do think its missing some shades of grey that are important.

56,000 people died globally in 2008 due to armed conflict, 0.0008% of the world’s population. The utopian vision of world peace within reach thanks to a maturing of attitudes at both state-level and amongst 4 of the 5 major “religious” demographics, atheists, christians, hindus and buddhists. But by 2014 conflict deaths had tripled to 180,000 primarily due to the 5th major religion. Why?

Root cause analysis is a celebrated problem solving technique amongst organisations in any area of modern society you care to mention. But it seems it’s never applied to this problem. Pointless I suppose because nobody dares vocalise what it will inevitably find.

[Steve Moss]

Suspicious? Yes! No worse for being watched.

Easier said than done. Germany has about 7,000 potential cases and can't monitor them all. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4057824/Germany-7-000-terror-suspects-large-finding-impossible-monitor-former-UK-intelligence-chief-says.html

The more practical solution is to immediately deport any refugee or immigrant who makes it onto a watch list.

[ultrablue]

Easier said than done. Germany has about 7,000 potential cases and can't monitor them all. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4057824/Germany-7-000-terror-suspects-large-finding-impossible-monitor-former-UK-intelligence-chief-says.html

The more practical solution is to immediately deport any refugee or immigrant who makes it onto a watch list.

Not enough eyes to watch everyone but as a general rule its smarter to keep suspects close and watch them no? Intelligence is the only way to stop terrorism.

[ABBEY]

[JAL]

Easier said than done. Germany has about 7,000 potential cases and can't monitor them all. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4057824/Germany-7-000-terror-suspects-large-finding-impossible-monitor-former-UK-intelligence-chief-says.html

The more practical solution is to immediately deport any refugee or immigrant who makes it onto a watch list.

How many potential cases are there in the UK for comparison Steve.

[Audax]

Mm, Obama is a left winger ? Well I suppose he is compared with Trump !

Hollande? Seemed he supported this action too.

Anyway, just answering hyperbole with hyperbole.

Per Libya, the problem to me, is when you go after some dictators, you can't go after all of them and there might be a real bad one somewhere that deserves it.

Anyway, I'm not really passing judgement on them.

[jim mk2]

Not enough eyes to watch everyone but as a general rule its smarter to keep suspects close and watch them no? Intelligence is the only way to stop terrorism.

Germany's strict data protection and privacy laws means they do not have CCTV to anything like the extent we have in this country. A member of Berlin's city government said there would be no expansion of video surveillance despite Monday's incident.

[Steve Moss]

Not enough eyes to watch everyone but as a general rule its smarter to keep suspects close and watch them no? Intelligence is the only way to stop terrorism.

That is a great concept but a cold comfort to the Berlin victims (and the other victims of those on watch lists).

In reality, I agree with you to a point. When you identify a suspect I would want to chart his known associates, etc. The problem is that security services only watch, it seems they rarely act. And terrorists may be insane, but they are not complete idiots. When they want to go missing they go off the internet and ditch their cell phones. Which has the distressing effect of our security services "losing" them.

We need a few less IT experts and a few more 00s, in my opinion.

How many potential cases are there in the UK for comparison Steve.

No idea. I'm not an intelligence agent.

Taking a guess, the population of Germany is a bit larger than the UK, which would indicate fewer than 7,000. Add in that I don't think the UK has invited in a million Muslin refugees over the last year, I'd assume that the UK number is significantly smaller.

Which should be a small comfort. Whether the UK has 7,000 crazy refugees, 1,000 crazies, 100, 10 or 1, a risk exists that would no have otherwise existed if reasonable safeguards were put in place and each immigrant was evaluated from the perspective of the host country's needs, not the immigrant's.

[koi]

How funny seeing Jim call out the likes of Cameron as being warmongers whilst elsewhere on this forum hailing Blair as our greatest ever PM!! talk about hypocrisy.

Sorry, I must correct myself, he actually only said the last 100 years.

[Stuart]

We wouldn't want to infringe his human rights before he has had a cup of tea

Tell that to Cliff Richard.

[jim mk2]

How funny seeing Jim call out the likes of Cameron as being warmongers whilst elsewhere on this forum hailing Blair as our greatest ever PM!! talk about hypocrisy.

Sorry, I must correct myself, he actually only said the last 100 years.

Working class Tory - the turkey who votes for Christmas.

Merry Christmas !!

[perthblue02]

Alleged Christmas day terror attack foiled in Aus

http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/police-raids-in-melbournes-northern-suburbs/news-story/135a23d342de22b6abedc7203b02d04f

and the big story from Perth - Australia's most expensive and longest running murder case - Man Charged

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-23/claremont-serial-killings-man-charged-with-murder/8144518

Heard many stories and theories about the above from the mrs and the in laws about how it changed Perth at the time, and its no understatement to say there seems to be a great deal of relief in Perth today at the above news. Hopefully the scumbag will spill where the body is that has never been found and give that girls parents some closure.

The feeling in Perth news sites/forums is that the list of what he is charged with, will grow. The name is out of the bag in Perth already, and surprisingly was never on the official lists of suspects or interviewed.

WA Police have come in for a fair amount of criticism over the years for the way they handled the case , but looks like they got there in the end

EDit : Appeared in court and name officially released now

http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/claremont-serial-killer-man-appears-in-court-charged-with-claremont-murders-20161223-gth517.html

[koi]

Working class Tory - the turkey who votes for Christmas.

Merry Christmas !!

I'm not the one talking about party politics, it's you Jim, a bitter an twisted hypocrite. You're the one who calls Cameron a right-wing warmonger for raising the prospect of bombing a country then laud Blair, a PM who openly lied to take an under-funded, under-equipped armed forces into a war that cost many, many lives cost billions of pounds and has caused a catastrophic vacuum that leaves the world of the verge of WW3. Take your red specs off Jim, Blair is as much a warmonger as those he deposed.

[Dreyski]

Reports coming in that the Berlin market terrorist has been killed in a shootout in Milan.

[Audax]

Yes, I heard about those Melbourne planned attacks some hours ago. Horrible. About the only continents these attacks are not occurring are Antarctica and South America.

Reports coming in that the Berlin market terrorist has been killed in a shootout in Milan.

Thanks for telling us.

Guardian is now reporting this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/23/berlin-market-attack-suspect-anis-amri-killed-in-milan-reports-say-live-coverage

[Baz]

Alleged Christmas day terror attack foiled in Aus

http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/police-raids-in-melbournes-northern-suburbs/news-story/135a23d342de22b6abedc7203b02d04f

and the big story from Perth - Australia's most expensive and longest running murder case - Man Charged

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-23/claremont-serial-killings-man-charged-with-murder/8144518

Heard many stories and theories about the above from the mrs and the in laws about how it changed Perth at the time, and its no understatement to say there seems to be a great deal of relief in Perth today at the above news. Hopefully the scumbag will spill where the body is that has never been found and give that girls parents some closure.

The feeling in Perth news sites/forums is that the list of what he is charged with, will grow. The name is out of the bag in Perth already, and surprisingly was never on the official lists of suspects or interviewed.

WA Police have come in for a fair amount of criticism over the years for the way they handled the case , but looks like they got there in the end

EDit : Appeared in court and name officially released now

http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/claremont-serial-killer-man-appears-in-court-charged-with-claremont-murders-20161223-gth517.html

Re the Christmas day threats, thankfully they have been found beforehand. Some important messages in this statement:

"It comes as members of the Victoria Police Multi-faith Council said they were “united in our shock and condemnation of the alleged planned terrorist acts in the Melbourne CBD”.

“These alleged acts were not acts of faith, ethnicity or culture,” the group said, in a statement provided by Victoria Police.

“They were opposed to the principles of all religions. They were alleged acts of criminality that do not reflect the harmonious values we collectively strive to promote.

“We stand together for cohesion and harmony and are confident that Victoria’s multicultural and diverse community will unite in the face of these challenges in a positive and peaceful way.

“Anything that disrupts our unity only gives strength to those who try to divide us and as such, acts of racism or victimisation will not be tolerated.”

[ABBEY]

Reports coming in that the Berlin market terrorist has been killed in a shootout in Milan.

good

[Amo]

.

[Amo]

How the hell did he get all the way to Italy? How do we know it's even the same guy?

[Al]

Easier said than done. Germany has about 7,000 potential cases and can't monitor them all. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4057824/Germany-7-000-terror-suspects-large-finding-impossible-monitor-former-UK-intelligence-chief-says.html

The more practical solution is to immediately deport any refugee or immigrant who makes it onto a watch list.

Absolutely what I have said before.

[Paul]

How the hell did he get all the way to Italy? How do we know it's even the same guy?

His finger prints were found in the vehicle cab.

[Amo]

His finger prints were found in the vehicle cab.

Were they?

[cmb211087]

Were they?

With his ID, conveniently....

[Al]

Libyan plane hijacked and landed in Malta. Phillipl has got to start buying tickets to get home for Christmas.