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[joey_big_nose]

Should have specified I was talking about the schools of Islamic law. The Kurds follow Shafi'i, the Turks mostly Hanafi, as do most Muslims directly south of Turkey (hence me suggesting most IS members might follow the same school of law as Turkey). I’d found that IS follow Salifism but that isn’t a school of law, not much knowledge on how Islam all fits together but I’m assuming Salifism falls into a broader class of ideology.

Turkey’s secular nature has been eroded by recent successive governments on an official level and I’d imagine is at even more risk on an unofficial level. I could see an Egypt-type civil war between the government and army occurring there sooner or later if its political class carries on becoming more religiously conservative. If Turkey and IS were opposed to each other on a primal level, Turkey wouldn’t respond to IS bombing a pro-Kurdish peace rally by intensifying its attacks on Kurdish rebels. The reaction of the Turkish government to that bombing was as revealing as it was alarming as it was totally unjust.

Indeed there are people in Turkey funding IS, it’s probably the biggest financial supporter of IS in the world after Saudi Arabia. And what is an (apparently) democratic government if not the will of its people? If a minority of powerful people in Turkey are backing IS, that is no doubt reflective of a minority of its people in every walk of life, including politicians that make up government.

Never thought I’d back Russia on anything but the enthusiasm of Turkey to open fire is more than questionable in my opinion. There’ll be a lot of NATO allies seriously considering whether it’s worth having Turkey’s geographical strategic advantage over their increasingly dubious friendship.

Great considered post.

Yes its true I would say there are people of many different types of background in Turkey who will be sympathetic to ISIS. But as you say they will be a minority (and a small one I think).

The government however will have absolutely no truck with ISIS. Indeed ISIS have been bombing them and are seeking to overthrow the government. It's a huge threat to them. I can't see how there is any strategic benefit (beyond squeezing the Kurds) of support for ISIS. The situation is complicated as the Turkish state is at war with Kurdish rebels, and until recently the Kurds were considered a bigger threat.

Regarding the particular incident you point to - intensifying attacks on Kurds after the IS bombing - can you post some links? Id be really interested to read about that?

[adopted scouser]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/katie-hopkins-shut-down-angry-6904025- 'you're going to reap, just what, you sow'.....

Pathetic really. Refuse to take part in a debate then label her a fascist.

[yoda]

Pathetic really. Refuse to take part in a debate then label her a fascist.

Left wing democracy at it's finest

[K-Hod]

Not nearly as pathetic as saying anything to get a reaction on Twitter/via a newspaper column, what a sad existence. Best thing they could do was just to ignore her. Don't feed the troll etc.

[ultrablue]

Pathetic really. Refuse to take part in a debate then label her a fascist.

The alternative would be to bar the doors and force everyone to listen. We don't do torture remember?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

She's just a gobby idiot. How can anybody take anything she says seriously ?

[K-Hod]

She's an absolute whopper designed to deflect attention away from the real issues in the world. Her and Josie Cunningham are horrible gosh1tes who will say anything to be current.

[T J Hooker]

Shes nothing but a professional troll(with the face of a troll to go with it), i doubt she even believes half of the crap she spouts, it just gets her headlines and headlines get her more money, that's her whole existence.

[K-Hod]

Shes nothing but a professional troll(with the face of a troll to go with it), i doubt she even believes half of the crap she spouts, it just gets her headlines and headlines get her more money, that's her whole existence.

Absolutey right TJ. I doubt she believes half of the guff she spouts.

The thing is though, as some of the things she's said are pretty close to the bone, if she had really wound someone up with her words and they subsequently attacked her, she'd only have herself to blame imo...

In any event, she got 'papped' with a married man in a field, so there is more than an element of 'glass houses' about anything she says.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

It was obvious she was an extremely nasty piece of work from her time on the Apprentice. The country didn't seem the least bit bothered then because she was only being derogatory about the accent etc of a lad from northern England (that Rovers fan who went on). But then she started venturing into the spheres the politically active do seem to care about and its been open season since then. Couldn't happen to a nicer person.

[Audax]

In 2012, apparently, the Syrians shot down a Turkish plane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2012_interception_of_Turkish_aircraft

[Paul]

Pathetic really. Refuse to take part in a debate then label her a fascist.

The only pathetic thing here is this woman who has nothing to offer and so decides to make a career out of being deliberately offensive in the media.

That she has become a "celebrity" demonstrates all that is wrong in our society.

[yoda]

Some of the previous posts about a certain female are laughable.

As soon as someone comes along with a view that you don't like, free speech is out of the window.

[Husky]

Sorry off topic, but why is it that muslims are allowed to be openly homophobic(and proudly claim that its a major sin to them ) and this is not seen as an Issue? yet anybody that even dares to openly question islamic beliefs is Labelled as being "Islamaphobic"(which isn't even a real thing imo.) most muslims ive ever spoke to about homosexuality or heard speaking about the subject on tv cant even remotely grasp that being gay isn't a choice a person makes.

Ain't that the six million dollar question.

[DE.]

Turkey doesn't want Russia involved because they support Assad, whilst Turkey are supporting the Syrian rebels. The focus on ISIS has caused people to forget that Turkey and Russia aren't on the same side in this mess. Turkey see the Kurds as a target above ISIS, whereas Russia have it the other way around.

The Kurds are just trying to use the chaos to try and gain ground. They haven't benefited from backing by outside forces, though, whereas Assad, the Syrian rebels and ISIS all have to significant degrees. I'd assume that makes the Kurds the weakest of all the groups fighting out there at the moment.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Some of the previous posts about a certain female are laughable.

As soon as someone comes along with a view that you don't like, free speech is out of the window.

She can say what she wants, within the law. I just don't have to listen to any of her ramblings.

[K-Hod]

Some of the previous posts about a certain female are laughable.

As soon as someone comes along with a view that you don't like, free speech is out of the window.

Not really. She can say what she likes of course, there's no need for her to be so rude though. Some of the things she's said have been horrendous and obviously to provoke a reaction. It's laughable that someone makes a living like that, but it is what it is I guess.

[adopted scouser]

The only pathetic thing here is this woman who has nothing to offer and so decides to make a career out of being deliberately offensive in the media.

That she has become a "celebrity" demonstrates all that is wrong in our society.

And you're commenting

[T J Hooker]

to be honest i think most of he 'celebrity status' is gained from people that just see her for what she is(a nasty hurtful cow that will say anything for attention and money) but they still watch her and read what she says because shes so absurdly gross its hard to not to keep following her because of some perverse entertainment value, its only a tiny minority of people(i hope) that actually like her and take her seriously.

[ultrablue]

Bang on TJ. Public comment has become reality TV. The more extreme she is, the higher the viewership. The irony, of course, is that if this was true reality people wouldn't be able to look themselves in the mirror after behaving like she does.

But hey, at least we're not the US. Their reality TV twitter troll has a shot at being President!

[speeeeeeedie]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/katie-hopkins-shut-down-angry-6904025- 'you're going to reap, just what, you sow'.....

Shes nothing but a professional troll(with the face of a troll to go with it), i doubt she even believes half of the crap she spouts, it just gets her headlines and headlines get her more money, that's her whole existence.

I had no idea who you were on about so read the article.

My first impression was that TJ must have extremely high standards as the girl in the first picture is certainly no troll. Then I kept reading.......

[Pedro]

to be honest i think most of he 'celebrity status' is gained from people that just see her for what she is(a nasty hurtful cow that will say anything for attention and money) but they still watch her and read what she says because shes so absurdly gross its hard to not to keep following her because of some perverse entertainment value, its only a tiny minority of people(i hope) that actually like her and take her seriously.

Don't buy into it. She is a character and a tool used to point the focus away from what is really important. She won't comment on anything particularly worthy of note...only propaganda aimed at the red tops and 'This Morning' audiences.

...I see nobody is pressuring the MP'S etc these days that were accused of paedophilia and cover ups etc. Amazing what over-reporting things from far away lands, for months on end can do.

[Audax]

Air travel has certainly changed yet, if one flies in small planes ever so often, I'm not sure if the experience is that different. From http://www.middleeasteye.net/in-depth/reviews/review-fragments-palestinian-lives-cut-short-1070727936 , kind of an informative website, I'm not positive about their editorial slant but some stories worth reading.

[Steve Moss]

I don't see what Russia can do. Turkey is massive, relatively wealthy, with a big military and a member of NATO. Not a fight the US could win, let alone Russia.

Theyll just move on I think. Maybe a few sanctions but that will be it.

Russians are the second largest source of tourists to Turkey. Putin has moved to cut that off, roughly 12% of their tourism industry. That simple move will hurt Turkey significantly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-signs-sweeping-economic-sanctions-against-turkey/2015/11/28/f3f5fff4-9603-11e5-befa-99ceebcbb272_story.html

History will judge the US very poorly if this happens. France, the UK, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Greece, Serbia, Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc will all take refugees and the US will be left looking isolated, morally bankrupt and cowardly. So quick to throw the bombs, destroy nations yet unwilling to burden the risks they have helped architect.

i think this is hilarious. How history will judge the USA, I'll leave to future generations to determine. Your opinion on how history will judge the USA is worth as much as mine- not much at all.

I think the West has been behaving in an incredibly weak fashion. I don't think taking in refugees in mass will be viewed favorably by history. If you want immigrants, take those who want to Westernize, not those who are looking for benefits and/or importing their failed systems into our communities.

And I've noticed a trend. You keep throwing out the word "coward". I don't think it means what you think it means. Here's a hint- in the West we value disagreement and debate. It's is not "cowardice" to express an opinion that diverges from that of joey_big_nose. If you can't accept that, I pity you.

In fact, if it is so necessary for your self-esteem and the preservation of your sad world view which tolerates no dissent without name calling in response, I'll cop to being a coward. The way you use it, it's a word without real meaning anyway. Either that, or you're projecting. And it that's the case, let it go- you aren't proving that your the bravest boy on the block by typing words on a discussion board; this is a discussion not a willy waving contest.

[joey_big_nose]

Russians are the second largest source of tourists to Turkey. Putin has moved to cut that off, roughly 12% of their tourism industry. That simple move will hurt Turkey significantly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-signs-sweeping-economic-sanctions-against-turkey/2015/11/28/f3f5fff4-9603-11e5-befa-99ceebcbb272_story.html

i think this is hilarious. How history will judge the USA, I'll leave to future generations to determine. Your opinion on how history will judge the USA is worth as much as mine- not much at all.

I think the West has been behaving in an incredibly weak fashion. I don't think taking in refugees in mass will be viewed favorably by history. If you want immigrants, take those who want to Westernize, not those who are looking for benefits and/or importing their failed systems into our communities.

And I've noticed a trend. You keep throwing out the word "coward". I don't think it means what you think it means. Here's a hint- in the West we value disagreement and debate. It's is not "cowardice" to express an opinion that diverges from that of joey_big_nose. If you can't accept that, I pity you.

In fact, if it is so necessary for your self-esteem and the preservation of your sad world view which tolerates no dissent without name calling in response, I'll cop to being a coward. The way you use it, it's a word without real meaning anyway. Either that, or you're projecting. And it that's the case, let it go- you aren't proving that your the bravest boy on the block by typing words on a discussion board; this is a discussion not a willy waving contest.

I used the word cowardice to refer to a similar viewpoint presented by two posters including yourself, proposing because people were killed in Paris as a knee-jerk reaction all refugees should be denied entry to western countries irrespective of any other consideration.

That is cowardice, no two ways about it. Nothing has changed about the situation of millions of people fleeing the conflict in Syria. A few of these will be jihaddists, the majority normal people trying to get b in life who have seen terrible terrible horrors. Huge numbers of those want to "westernize". That's not the issue. What has changed is the US particularly (although the phenomenon has been seen across the world) has become more scared as a result of the attack and made a knee-jerk response. The terrorists have won on that score.

No issue with you disagreeing with me. Doesn't stop your view, in my opinion, being one motivated by fear rather than values, with little grasp of the human tragedy unfolding in Syria.