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[Audax]

I believe what was said was until a better vetting process can be done and we know whom we are dealing with, that such immigration should be blocked.

President Jimmy Carter blocked all Iranians or near all, there may be some details to this.

[speeeeeeedie]

Trump has plenty of things in his favour at present; the large candidate field splitting opposition against him, wall to wall media coverage, worrying by the Republican Party that he will go on his own if they renounce anything he says, his lack of a need to court donors, crazy nutters shooting people, and a lack of any political experience (strange but a lot of Americans think this is a plus).

He's leading by stoking the fears of a sizable portion of the Republican electorate; the largely uneducated working class white vote especially concentrated in the south and midwest of the country. This group of Americans have felt marginalized over the years and used to vote Democrat, but God, guns, and gays brought them over to the Republicans. The loss of careers traditionally filled by their ilk; manufacturing and construction are a big 2, has led the group to be very wary of politicians as they blame them for trade deals that caused the loss of manufacturing jobs, and immigrants because they now work construction jobs traditionally held by the white working class.

I think that the Republican party could be doomed whatever they do. If the party comes together to unite against Trump it's entirely possible that he will run on his own. If this happens he will take a lot of votes with him, ensuring a Democrat win.

If they decide to jump on board with him and he wins the nomination the Democrats will win again as Trump won't be able to get enough people to vote for him. What killed Mitt Romney last time was his lack of votes from non-whites. The USA is getting more non-white by the day, and Trump is alienating most of them.

I wonder what Jeb Bush thinks? This time last year I'll bet he was licking his lips at the prospect of an easy run to the nomination. Trump's outlandish style has kicked Bush to the curb.

[Steve Moss]

If they decide to jump on board with him and he wins the nomination the Democrats will win again as Trump won't be able to get enough people to vote for him. What killed Mitt Romney last time was his lack of votes from non-whites. The USA is getting more non-white by the day, and Trump is alienating most of them.

I wonder what Jeb Bush thinks? This time last year I'll bet he was licking his lips at the prospect of an easy run to the nomination. Trump's outlandish style has kicked Bush to the curb.

Kicking Jeb to the curb is a feature, not a bug. I'm sick of dynasitic politics. So good for Trump.

As to Trump's minority support, some polls show him at 25% support from blacks. That's more than double prior Republican candidates over the years. And Trump's support among Hispanics is a couple of points higher than Romney.

And he gets the highest marks of all the candidates on the economy and national security.

What's freaking establishment Republicans and Democrats out about Trump isn't that he's a crash and burn candidate. What's freaking them out is that there is a fair prospect that he might win, based on the issue polling.

I personally haven's decided to vote for Trump or not. I don't have to decide until March. But I'm enjoying the pain of our career political class. They got us into these messes. I doubt they're the ones who will get us out.

[yoda]

One thing that is 100% certain is that IS won't differentiate between the Democrats and Republicans, or Labour, Tory, Ukip or Libdems.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Mosques,you mean those peaceful centres of Islamic faith and scholarship storing weapons?

Yes Mr Trump your quite right to ask....just what the hell is really going on here!

[Steve Moss]

Just out of interest, what happens to American Muslims under Donald Trump's plans? His proposals won't stop acts like the one in California.

No, I was just curious. He mentions not allowing any more Muslims in, ignoring the fact that many already live in the USA. Are they to be on lockdown as well?

If you truly were curious, you could have found the answer within 2 seconds via Google. His plan would have no application to Muslims already residing in the USA. It would not prevent Americans, Muslim or otherwise, from coming and going. It would only put a stop to additional immigration until we can get this issue sorted.

The fact that some think this is controversial astounds me.

[adopted scouser]

I heard Trump called White ISIS last night on The Daily Show. The similarities are quite striking.

Stupid comment and a little obnoxious to boot.

To date Trump hasn't video'd men being drowned in a cage lowered into a swimming pool, burned men alive, beheaded people, locked people in a car then vaporised it with an RPG, raped and murdered Yazidi children, thrown blindfolded gay men head first from tall buildings or trained children to murder and behead bound prisoners on camera.

[yoda]

Stupid comment and a little obnoxious to boot.

To date Trump hasn't video'd men being drowned in a cage lowered into a swimming pool, burned men alive, beheaded people, locked people in a car then vaporised it with an RPG, raped and murdered Yazidi children, thrown blindfolded gay men head first from tall buildings or trained children to murder and behead bound prisoners on camera.

Correct, he's not likely to do any of those things either,

some people need to give their heads a wobble,

IS will kill anyone that does not conform

[Gav]

Donald Trump is trying to win votes in a presidential campaign, he's trying to be controversial to appeal to certain sections of American society, he also lives in a country that prides itself on free speech and I for one have absolutely no issues with what he said, let the voters decide.

I'm not racist, I'm not anti Muslim and I don't think we should shy away from controversial subjects either.

Britain and America are allies of Saudi, they behead, crucify and stone people, that's far worse than anything Donald Trump has ever said or done on my book, but somehow that's ok?

Hungary building fences to keep asylum seekers out? Kuwait and Saudi refusing to take refugees?

Donald Trump is a side show if you really think about it.

[yoda]

Donald Trump is trying to win votes in a presidential campaign, he's trying to be controversial to appeal to certain sections of American society, he also lives in a country that prides itself on free speech, I for one have absolutely no issues with what he said.

I'm not racist, I'm not anti Muslim and I don't think we should shy away from controversial subjects either.

Britain and America are allies of Saudi, they behead, crucify and stone people, that's far worse than anything Donald Trump has ever said or done on my book, but somehow that's ok?

Hungary building fences to keep asylum seekers out? Kuwait and Saudi refusing to take refugees?

Donald Trump is a side show if you really think about it.

It's not Ok as you know, the UK at least has recently cancelled a major defence contract with the Saudi's, allegedly because of their human rights record

[Gav]

It's not Ok as you know, the UK at least has recently cancelled a major defence contract with the Saudi's, allegedly because of their human rights record

If it's not Ok why did so many people vote Tory? When they're in the pockets of the Saudis?

One of the reasons we've joined the bombing campaign Is probably to keep the Saudis sweet, but like the defence contract we'll never really know.

Puts Trumps comments into perspective I'd say, he's an irrelevance.

[yoda]

If it's not Ok why did so many people vote Tory? When they're in the pockets of the Saudis?

One of the reasons we've joined the bombing campaign Is probably to keep the Saudis sweet, but like the defence contract we'll never really know.

Puts Trumps comments into perspective I'd say, he's an irrelevance.

Can't believe you are trying to make political capital out of fighting IS, what exactly did Labour ever do to check the Saudis

I am going to post this again

One thing that is 100% certain is that IS won't differentiate between the Democrats and Republicans, or Labour, Tory, Ukip or Libdems

[Gav]

Can't believe you are trying to make political capital out of fighting IS, what exactly did Labour ever do to check the Saudis

I am going to post this again

One thing that is 100% certain is that IS won't differentiate between the Democrats and Republicans, or Labour, Tory, Ukip or Libdems

I'm late into this debate and was discussing Trump, so I'll stick to that.

As Donald makes the BBC news again...

[jim mk2]

It is astounding that anyone thinks immigrants are the problem when the overwhelming majority of shootings carried out in America are by people born and raised in the USA.

Donald Trump is clearly a highly unstable individual who is a threat to the civilised world. The only upside to his increasingly unhinged rantings is that he is showing the Republican party to be a pariah group of facist bigots and virtually guarantees that there will be a Democrat president for a third successive term.

[ultrablue]

Did you actually listen to it or just cherry pick the media headline. He was referring to IS using family as shields when they are being attacked, not defending him at all by the way but try to be a bit more balanced when using snippets like this.

ps just seen your post above Audax, must have been at the same time

Trump was asked about human shields, but it's unclear whether he was answering that question when he said "you have to kill their families".

You know when you said you can't understand how to justify killing? This is one of those cases.

[Steve Moss]

It is astounding that anyone thinks immigrants are the problem when the overwhelming majority of shootings carried out in America are by people born and raised in the USA.

Donald Trump is clearly a highly unstable individual who is a threat to the civilised world. The only upside to his increasingly unhinged rantings is that he is showing the Republican party to be a pariah group of facist bigots and virtually guarantees that there will be a Democrat president for a third successive term.

I'm still waiting for an example of Trump's alleged racism, per you. Why do you think Trump is racist?

[ultrablue]

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scaleFit_400/56524d2f1b0000270029e559.png

How about when he posted this on twitter? A man running for President of the United States posted this on twitter.

The statistics were entirely fabricated by a neo-nazi by the way.

[Steve Moss]

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scaleFit_400/56524d2f1b0000270029e559.png

How about when he posted this on twitter? A man running for President of the United States posted this on twitter.

The statistics were entirely fabricated by a neo-nazi by the way.

Re=tweeting alleged bad crime statistics makes him a racist?

Here's the actual FBI statistics for 2013. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

As to the last category re-tweeted (picked because it was the largest letters), "97%" of blacks are killed by blacks, that's wrong as of 2013. Out of 2,491 black murders, 2,245 of them were committed by blacks, or just over 90%. So quoting someone who was off by 7% makes Trump a racist?

I have no idea if that percentage was ever 97% or not in prior years.

But if that's your definition of racism, a 7% error in one category (and errors, perhaps, in others), that was re-tweeted but originated by another, then the word has no real meaning.

[Baz]

Re=tweeting alleged bad crime statistics makes him a racist?

Here's the actual FBI statistics for 2013. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

As to the last category re-tweeted (picked because it was the largest letters), "97%" of blacks are killed by blacks, that's wrong as of 2013. Out of 2,491 black murders, 2,245 of them were committed by blacks, or just over 90%. So quoting someone who was off by 7% makes Trump a racist?

I have no idea if that percentage was ever 97% or not in prior years.

But if that's your definition of racism, a 7% error in one category (and errors, perhaps, in others), that was re-tweeted but originated by another, then the word has no real meaning.

Trumps recent history of statements regarding Muslims, Mexicans, women and posting that on Twitter shows he's an ignorant bigot who's more interested in a soundbite than the issues. Anyone seriously considering voting for him needs their head examined.

Should we ban him from the UK? No, we should just get John Oliver to interview him for TV as his passport to entry.

[ultrablue]

"Perhaps other errors?" Come on Steve, you've got to come up for air sometime!

The racist part is in the completely fabricated stat that 81% of whites killed were at the hands of blacks. The real figure is around 14%. Whites killed by whites should be around 83%, not 16%.

I'd say a 67% difference is not an error, it is complete fabrication for racist purposes.

[jim mk2]

Trump in this presidential campaign has lambasted African Americans, immigrants, Latin Americans, Asians, women, Muslims and the disabled. The Republican party needs to think very carefully before it nominates as its presidential candidate a racist bigot whose every utterance is an affront to common decency.

[Mike E]

Trump in this presidential campaign has lambasted African Americans, immigrants, Latin Americans, Asians, women, Muslims and the disabled. The Republican party needs to think very carefully before it nominates as its presidential candidate a racist bigot whose every utterance is an affront to common decency.

We need to stop agreeing Jim, people will talk!

[Steve Moss]

Trumps recent history of statements regarding Muslims, Mexicans, women and posting that on Twitter shows he's an ignorant bigot who's more interested in a soundbite than the issues. Anyone seriously considering voting for him needs their head examined.

Should we ban him from the UK? No, we should just get John Oliver to interview him for TV as his passport to entry.

Muslims are not a race. It is a religion and/or ideology.

Women are a gender, not a race. But exactly what has he said to demonstrate he's bigoted against women?

What, exactly, has Trump said about Mexicans? I've heard both bad and good, which is the same for every ethnic group.

As to voting for Trump, I'll reserve judgment. But claims such as the above make me more inclined that otherwise, if only to poke my finger in the eye of those who'll twist words beyond all rational meaning in order to assassinate a man's character.

"Perhaps other errors?" Come on Steve, you've got to come up for air sometime!

The racist part is in the completely fabricated stat that 81% of whites killed were at the hands of blacks. The real figure is around 14%. Whites killed by whites should be around 83%, not 16%.

I'd say a 67% difference is not an error, it is complete fabrication for racist purposes.

Trump did not create the error. He, and presumably others, were mislead by another. That's not racist.

And for the record, I could not find the crime statistics broken down by race of offender and victim in San Francisco. I could only find the national data. So whether the tweet is right or wrong about San Francisco data, I have no idea. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it were wrong as there appears to be no agency as described at the bottom of the tweet.

Re-tweeting a message containing incorrect data does not make Trump a racist. That you claim it does demonstrates far more about you than it does Trump.

Trump in this presidential campaign has lambasted African Americans, immigrants, Latin Americans, Asians, women, Muslims and the disabled. The Republican party needs to think very carefully before it nominates as its presidential candidate a racist bigot whose every utterance is an affront to common decency.

Congratulations, Jim. I'm a step closer to voting for Trump.

Exactly what has he said that's racist?

[ultrablue]

So Trump isn't racist, he just shares racist propaganda online.

You interpret it however you like Steve, I think he's racist

[Steve Moss]

So Trump isn't racist, he just shares racist propaganda online.

You interpret it however you like Steve, I think he's racist

And I'm too polite to share my opinion as to the quality of your alleged cognitive functions.