[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[Pedro]

I'm not the biggest fan of our public sector colleagues (I think the doctors have behaved disgracefully)

Why?

[Rover-the-Top]

For me its the 'my uncle beats me' comment that should be getting all the attention.

Context is key: beats physically or beats at a game, sport, etc? Both answers could have perfectly innocent explanations that don't need the police to investigate. It's always difficult to know what we're not being told, maybe the school already had suspicions, maybe the teacher did have a word with the boy to find out what he meant before reporting it.

[K-Hod]

We have a 'like this' facility but why do we not have a 'dislike this' button?

I'm sure there was something in the past (a +/-) button, think it was called the reputation vote, or something along those lines. I'll enquire about it.....

[onlyonetugay]

Maybe if there was steel plant in this area you would have received messages about that too but the doctors' dispute affects everyone.

Labour introduced the mimimum wage in 1998, one of the first steps to improve the working conditions of all workers in both public and private sectors and was vehemently opposed by the Tory opposition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Wage_Act_1998

If you look at it in a wider context , the steel plant redundancies affect everyone too . A thousand redundancies in the private sector means less tax and national Insurance contributions (both employer and employee) going into the exchequer to pay the wages and pensions of those who work in public services like health , education and social care.

[BlueMonday]

If you look at it in a wider context , the steel plant redundancies affect everyone too . A thousand redundancies in the private sector means less tax and national Insurance contributions (both employer and employee) going into the exchequer to pay the wages and pensions of those who work in public services like health , education and social care.

Public Sector Workers pay tax as well

[Mike E]

Public Sector Workers pay tax as well

Yes, but they get paid from the public purse anyway. So they net 'take out', whereas private workers (in theory, at least) 'net put in'.

Or have I misunderstood? (Quite likely).

[BlueMonday]

Yes, but they get paid from the public purse anyway. So they net 'take out', whereas private workers (in theory, at least) 'net put in'.

Or have I misunderstood? (Quite likely).

Does that mean I can stop paying taxes then!

All workers make a net contribution to the economy. The public sector might not produce a tangible 'product' but without it commerce, finance and society itself couldn't function. So its not a case of the Private sector providing/paying for the public sector. Without a health service your workers get sick and die young, without the police, people would steal your resources, without bin men, the streets would be over run with garbage.

[Paul]

This was a good video on why there is discontent with immigration and the Islamification of Europe. I know the BBC intended it as a parody, but I think it unintentionally hit on the problem.

"I am an Englishman"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWHPJ8hO-ZM

I'm not sure Islamification was even a topic of national interest in 2001 when this was made. Far from being a parody NCS Manhunt was a police drama series.

It's worth googling "I am an Englisnan" or "NCS Manhunt I am an Englishman" to gain knowledge of the organisations which have taken an interest in a 5-6 minute clip from a 15 year old probably two hour long TV programme.

It certainly isn't a parody.

[Steve Moss]

^

Agreed. Parody was a poor choice of words.

I believe it was meant negatively by the bbc. I have never seen the episode, but it being associated with a crime drama makes sense.

Regardless, I think it accurately sums up the frustration of those who see the world around them changing dramatically but are given no voice in whether the change is good, bad or indifferent.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Does that mean I can stop paying taxes then!

All workers make a net contribution to the economy. The public sector might not produce a tangible 'product' but without it commerce, finance and society itself couldn't function. So its not a case of the Private sector providing/paying for the public sector. Without a health service your workers get sick and die young, without the police, people would steal your resources, without bin men, the streets would be over run with garbage.

Yeah you could stop paying taxes if your wage drops by the equivalent amount. Otherwise you'd be costing the government more.

The public and private sector are of equal importance. The public sector spends money to provide people with essential services, the private sector makes the money for the public sector to spend. It doesn't come from anywhere else!

So when 1,100 jobs are lost at a steel company, that is as important as the junior doctors saying they're overworked. The 2 are inextricably linked. Less private sector jobs, less taxes, less money for the government to pay junior doctors, less junior doctors employed for the same amount of work.

But one issue sparks grass roots national campaigns for months and the other issue vanishes from public perception within 24 hours of it occurring, I bet it didn't even achieve a twitter hashtag.

So working in manufacturing myself (about 5 million jobs lost in the last 50 years), I'll continue to sympathise with the public sector's employment woes as much as they sympathise with mine. That sounds fair to me.

[Audax]

I keep up with a lot of international news. This won't get a lot of play in the Western media but makes me wonder what the H this is about.

My theory would be guerilla/rebel types, there are not Jihadis generally speaking in the Buddhist country of Laos. Of course, the Uighurs and China have tensions so one never knows where this could come from. Anyway, I guess, I am just thinking out loud.

2 Chinese nationals killed, 1 injured in suspected bomb attack in Laos

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-01/25/c_135041044.htm

[onlyonetugay]

Thatcher started punishing the north in the 1980s for not voting Tory since when all Tory economic policy and investment has been focused on the south and the City of London in particular. The "Northern Powerhouse" is mere window dressing and a cynical election ploy used last May to con simple minded northern folk into voting Tory. It also an idea that Osborne pinched from Labour anyway (nothing new there).

Northern Conservative voters are the turkeys that voted for Christmas.

So what are we to think of the large number of folk who vote Labour because their Dads did and they voted Labour because their Dads did? A party that purports to represent working people but counts among its MPs, Dianne Abbott , left wing revolutionary who sent her son to a private school. Harriet Harman advocate of all women constituency short lists, but then makes an exception for her husband, the ex Union baron Jack Dromy so he could join the "family business" . Emily Thornberry (aka Lady Nugee) the champagne socialist and a member of the North London Metropolitan elite who looks down on the ordinary white working man and who took money in kind , from a firm of solicitors who specialize in hounding our servicemen and women ..........shall I go on comrades?

If you're a Muslim and want the UK to increasingly reflect your way of life , an economic migrant yet to arrive, work in the public sector or rely on benefits, then Labour is definitely the party for you and if that's your choice, I certainly wouldn't call you simple.

On the other hand I know which side my bread's buttered on and thankfully there were enough of us to prevent a Labour and Scottish Nasty Party coalition at the last election. Just think where we'd be now with Ed Milliband as PM and Alex ( I hate the English and blame them for everything that's wrong with Scotland ) Salmond as deputy PM, with Nicola Sturgeon acting as their consultant ..................the mind boggles!

[K-Hod]

There's some hypocrisy detailed above, no doubt about it. One could easily make a counter-argument for the hypocrisy of people in the North voting Tory though...

Just to add as well, with people like myself, it's not so much that I believe in Labour, it's just I don't agree with the Conservative party on principle for a host of reasons.

[Biddy]

Sounds like you should have voted Lib Dem....

[K-Hod]

Sounds like you should have voted Lib Dem....

You're probably right Biddy! IIRC I had a bit of a bee in my bonnet about the tuition fee 'lie' when they joined up with the Conservatives.

Though probably on balance, it's not the first political lie to be told....

[BlueMonday]

Yeah you could stop paying taxes if your wage drops by the equivalent amount. Otherwise you'd be costing the government more.

The public and private sector are of equal importance. The public sector spends money to provide people with essential services, the private sector makes the money for the public sector to spend. It doesn't come from anywhere else!

So when 1,100 jobs are lost at a steel company, that is as important as the junior doctors saying they're overworked. The 2 are inextricably linked. Less private sector jobs, less taxes, less money for the government to pay junior doctors, less junior doctors employed for the same amount of work.

But one issue sparks grass roots national campaigns for months and the other issue vanishes from public perception within 24 hours of it occurring, I bet it didn't even achieve a twitter hashtag.

So working in manufacturing myself (about 5 million jobs lost in the last 50 years), I'll continue to sympathise with the public sector's employment woes as much as they sympathise with mine. That sounds fair to me.

Well as a Public Sector worker I have great sympathy with all workers made redundant, and feel passionately that workers Rights should be protected. It should be pointed out that the public sector has shrunk considerably since 2010, with the loss of tens of thousands of jobs.

It must be said that the Tories are happy to play the public and private sectors off each other, devide and conquer as their instinct is to drive down wages and workers rights.

[onlyonetugay]

Well as a Public Sector worker I have great sympathy with all workers made redundant, and feel passionately that workers Rights should be protected. It should be pointed out that the public sector has shrunk considerably since 2010, with the loss of tens of thousands of jobs.

It must be said that the Tories are happy to play the public and private sectors off each other, devide and conquer as their instinct is to drive down wages and workers rights.

It's the current high level of migration that's driving down pay, although I accept low paid workers will receive a boost in April when the new living wage is introduced.

http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/migrant-workers-are-driving-down-pay-in-low-skilled-jobs/

So if you believe in decent wages for unskilled workers , then arguably the last party you should vote for is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour and his extreme far left associates , who seem to think uncontrolled immigration won't do any damage.

[yoda]

It's the current high level of migration that's driving down pay, although I accept low paid workers will receive a boost in April when the new living wage is introduced.

http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/migrant-workers-are-driving-down-pay-in-low-skilled-jobs/

So if you believe in decent wages for unskilled workers , then arguably the last party you should vote for is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour and his extreme far left associates , who seem to think uncontrolled immigration won't do any damage.

Tin hat time on here

[jim mk2]

So what are we to think of the large number of folk who vote Labour because their Dads did and they voted Labour because their Dads did? A party that purports to represent working people but counts among its MPs, Dianne Abbott , left wing revolutionary who sent her son to a private school. Harriet Harman advocate of all women constituency short lists, but then makes an exception for her husband, the ex Union baron Jack Dromy so he could join the "family business" . Emily Thornberry (aka Lady Nugee) the champagne socialist and a member of the North London Metropolitan elite who looks down on the ordinary white working man and who took money in kind , from a firm of solicitors who specialize in hounding our servicemen and women ..........shall I go on comrades?

If you're a Muslim and want the UK to increasingly reflect your way of life , an economic migrant yet to arrive, work in the public sector or rely on benefits, then Labour is definitely the party for you and if that's your choice, I certainly wouldn't call you simple.

On the other hand I know which side my bread's buttered on and thankfully there were enough of us to prevent a Labour and Scottish Nasty Party coalition at the last election. Just think where we'd be now with Ed Milliband as PM and Alex ( I hate the English and blame them for everything that's wrong with Scotland ) Salmond as deputy PM, with Nicola Sturgeon acting as their consultant ..................the mind boggles!

"The Conservative Party is not a party but a conspiracy … the great vested interests banded together in a formidable federation; corruption at home, aggression to cover it up abroad, the trickery of tariff juggles, the tyranny of a party machine, sentiment by the bucketful, patriotism by the imperial pint, the open hand at the public Exchequer, the open door at the public house, dear food for the million, cheap labour for the millionaire … the Conservative Party is nothing less than a deliberate attempt on the part of important sections of the propertied classes to transfer their burdens to the shoulders of the masses of the people and to claim greater profits for the investment of their capital by charging higher prices."

-Winston Churchill

[BlueMonday]

It's the current high level of migration that's driving down pay, although I accept low paid workers will receive a boost in April when the new living wage is introduced.

http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/migrant-workers-are-driving-down-pay-in-low-skilled-jobs/

So if you believe in decent wages for unskilled workers , then arguably the last party you should vote for is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour and his extreme far left associates , who seem to think uncontrolled immigration won't do any damage.

The Tories are hardly controlling immigration. Not only did they miss there own target, they abandoned them.

[onlyonetugay]

"The Conservative Party is not a party but a conspiracy … the great vested interests banded together in a formidable federation; corruption at home, aggression to cover it up abroad, the trickery of tariff juggles, the tyranny of a party machine, sentiment by the bucketful, patriotism by the imperial pint, the open hand at the public Exchequer, the open door at the public house, dear food for the million, cheap labour for the millionaire … the Conservative Party is nothing less than a deliberate attempt on the part of important sections of the propertied classes to transfer their burdens to the shoulders of the masses of the people and to claim greater profits for the investment of their capital by charging higher prices."

-Winston Churchill

Good one. By quoting something Churchill said nearly 100 years ago ( as a Liberal) you make my argument for me . For some, voting Labour is akin to passing a family heirloom through the generations, still fighting the old class wars, because their Dads and Grandads did.

As we're starting to trawl the internet for century old quotations , here's one from Georges Clemenceau 1841 - 1929 ( former French Prime Minister )

" Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart , to be one at thirty is proof of want of head "

[K-Hod]

Good one. By quoting something Churchill said nearly 100 years ago ( as a Liberal) you make my argument for me . For some, voting Labour is akin to passing a family heirloom through the generations, still fighting the old class wars, because their Dads and Grandads did.

As we're starting to trawl the internet for century old quotations , here's one from Georges Clemenceau 1841 - 1929 ( former French Prime Minister )

" Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart , to be one at 30 is proof of want of head "

It's exactly the same with most political parties though. I bet not many vote differently to how their parents do in fairness.

How much funding does the South get compared to the North? People wonder why there's a class war. Without even bringing into it tax avoidance/evasion. Look at that paltry sum Google paid for back taxes the other day. When in reality it should be way more. Routes to tax havens need blocking, not the most vulnerable in society punishing because the government doesn't dare chase up these organisations. (I am aware successive Labour and Conservative governments also haven't addressed this problem).

[onlyonetugay]

The Tories are hardly controlling immigration. Not only did they miss there own target, they abandoned them.

I agree 100% , they need to do a lot better

It's exactly the same with most political parties though. I bet not many vote differently to how their parents do in fairness.

How much funding does the South get compared to the North? People wonder why there's a class war. Without even bringing into it tax avoidance/evasion. Look at that paltry sum Google paid for back taxes the other day. When in reality it should be way more. Routes to tax havens need blocking, not the most vulnerable in society punishing because the government doesn't dare chase up these organisations. (I am aware successive Labour and Conservative governments also haven't addressed this problem).

It's a disgrace what Google and the rest ot their ilk haven't paid over many years , but at least they're being shamed into paying something now. Like you said though, both political parties are to blame

[yoda]

The Tories are hardly controlling immigration. Not only did they miss there own target, they abandoned them.

No party can control net immigration while we have freedom of movement in the EU

[Baz]

It's the current high level of migration that's driving down pay, although I accept low paid workers will receive a boost in April when the new living wage is introduced.

http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/migrant-workers-are-driving-down-pay-in-low-skilled-jobs/

So if you believe in decent wages for unskilled workers , then arguably the last party you should vote for is Jeremy Corbyn's Labour and his extreme far left associates , who seem to think uncontrolled immigration won't do any damage.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/29/migrants-wages-uk-immigration_n_5409319.html

The biggest problem with wages is the economic stagnation we currently have. You can't just cut your way to growth.