[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[Dean]

Interesting that the OECD have said that publing spending needs to increase and austerity needs to come to an end.

Jeremy Corbyn was the only Labour candidate pushing that message less than six months ago. That should kill the dreary Tory rhetoric of "same old Labour, spend spend spend".

Not surprising really, given that he has appointment a team of world class economists, including nobel prize winners. And it's yet another time he has been proven right in the fullness of time.

[jim mk2]

Jeremy Corbyn is too right wing for my taste but his message is resonating with voters up and down the country fed up with the failed policies of a government that has for the past 6 years in the name of "austerity" waged an ideological war on public services and working people and left the national finances in a worse state than when they came into office.

Osborne has been pursuing an extremist right wing political agenda that has caused long-term damage to the British economy and failed to achieve anything that he promised he would back in 2010, but instead of telling the truth the right wing media portrays him as some kind of success while continuing to deride Corbyn for proposing a change of direction.

The fact is Corbyn's policies on QE, the banks and renationalisation are not radical and they are not unpopular with the British public. Polls consistently show that a huge majority believe the NHS, railways and energy companies should be run as not-for-profit public services so Corbyn is speaking the people's language when he proposes these sort of social democratic policies.

The OECD report is another uncomfortable truth for this government. As the economy heads for another slowdown and more taxes rises and spending cuts are foisted on the suffering majority (note Osborne has been getting his excuses in early recently, blaming China and any other "headwind" he can think of), the public will finally wake up to the fact they have been conned by a Tory party that exists only to serve the City of London and richest few

[Dean]

Jeremy Corbyn is too right wing for my taste

He's further left of my beliefs, but given how near to the middle the rest of the Labour candidates were, he was easily the closest and got my vote.

Labour have been using the line that austerity is "a political choice and not an economic necessity" so frequently that it's almost become background noise. The OECD report shows it to be true though.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Labour have been using the line that austerity is "a political choice and not an economic necessity" so frequently that it's almost become background noise. The OECD report shows it to be true though.

Of course Labour have been using that line, they will always use that line totally regardless of the economic circumstances. For them its a political necessity and an economic irrelevance.

You may well be right about the overall point of austerity. Although its far from the case that what the OECD says is the undisputed truth. Nobody really definitively knows what the correct approach is, hence bodies like the OECD and IMF flip-flopping and only becoming more concrete in their opinions once they have the benefit of hindsight.

In my opinion the argument against austerity comes across as sweeping the debt problem under the rug. Now the argument is that austerity should end to encourage recovery and then we'll have more money to pay off the debt later. Later the argument will be that the economy is booming and why risk recession by making cuts to pay off the debt. If we later go into recession the argument will be that the economy will never recover under the weight of austerity. There's never a good time for this, Labour will always oppose it and the public sector will always kick off about it.

So assuming the argument then is to forever ignore the debt (because realistically that's what it is), what does that give us. 10-year cycles of boom and bust basically. Recovery, boom, a wave of uncertainty about growth built on debt, recession, etc etc. And each time recession hits, thousands of businesses go bust and millions lose their jobs.

As a general rule I like to think I'm not too stubborn to bow to superior knowledge on an issue so if every other credible financial body agrees with the OECD then fine lets do it, if there are still expert opinions that fall on either side then personally I continue to have major doubts.

[onlyonetugay]

Interesting that the OECD have said that publing spending needs to increase and austerity needs to come to an end.

Jeremy Corbyn was the only Labour candidate pushing that message less than six months ago. That should kill the dreary Tory rhetoric of "same old Labour, spend spend spend".

Not surprising really, given that he has appointment a team of world class economists, including nobel prize winners. And it's yet another time he has been proven right in the fullness of time.

Jeremy Corbyn is too right wing for my taste but his message is resonating with voters up and down the country fed up with the failed policies of a government that has for the past 6 years in the name of "austerity" waged an ideological war on public services and working people and left the national finances in a worse state than when they came into office.

Osborne has been pursuing an extremist right wing political agenda that has caused long-term damage to the British economy and failed to achieve anything that he promised he would back in 2010, but instead of telling the truth the right wing media portrays him as some kind of success while continuing to deride Corbyn for proposing a change of direction.

The fact is Corbyn's policies on QE, the banks and renationalisation are not radical and they are not unpopular with the British public. Polls consistently show that a huge majority believe the NHS, railways and energy companies should be run as not-for-profit public services so Corbyn is speaking the people's language when he proposes these sort of social democratic policies.

The OECD report is another uncomfortable truth for this government. As the economy heads for another slowdown and more taxes rises and spending cuts are foisted on the suffering majority (note Osborne has been getting his excuses in early recently, blaming China and any other "headwind" he can think of), the public will finally wake up to the fact they have been conned by a Tory party that exists only to serve the City of London and richest few

My word , this reaction is almost orgasmic. One selective part of a report from the OECD and the left and extreme left are in raptures of "I told you so ! "

I note that the Guardian ( a questionable left wing publication , akin to the right wing Daily Mail) says the OECD was a long time deficit reduction supporter , I'm assuming that the left and the hard left didn't think much of the OECD when it supported austerity , so why so much support for it's pronouncements now ?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/18/oecd-calls-for-less-austerity-and-more-public-investment

The IMF has also been known to change it's mind on austerity too. They were lauding the Chancellor not so long ago

I note the Daily Mail ( for sake of balance ) has another take on this story . They concentrate on parts of the OECD report that say how well the UK will do this year , in comparison to the other big economies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3453504/Britain-developed-world-s-fastest-growing-major-economy-year-crisis-torn-eurozone-nations-set-falter.html

It's hard to know what to believe isn't it ! What we've got to be careful about is just quoting part of the OECD study that suits our argument . Lets look at the bigger picture .

I accept we're still borrowing far more than we can afford, a legacy our grandchildren won't thank us for . Paying for the wages and pensions of a still bloated public sector and interest on the national debt doesn't help balance the books. However I accept we could do more on infrastructure. Both labour and the conservatives have failed when it comes to house building, railways and roads, although the climate change lobby has a big effect on the latter.

Considering all the doom and gloom in the world economy , the UK economy compared to most others isn't doing too badly with relatively reasonable growth, low inflation, low interest rates and high employment rates. Wage rises are benign at an average of 1.9% , which is puzzling when we have almost full employment . I'm guessing that's down to the 2 million migrant workers currently competing for jobs alongside UK workers, giving those horrible bosses a cheap and plentiful labour supply

[onlyonetugay]

Jeremy Corbyn is too right wing for my taste

What about Stalin ?

[Baz]

Im impressed the PM has managed to spend the last 9 months negotiating a new deal with Europe, that may save us up to £25m in benefits a year.

Although I fundamentally disagree with most of what he says, Farage must be absolutely delighted with the outcome.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Im impressed the PM has managed to spend the last 9 months negotiating a new deal with Europe, that may save us up to £25m in benefits a year.

Although I fundamentally disagree with most of what he says, Farage must be absolutely delighted with the outcome.

Farage is a loser,why do you think a lot of the out campaigns didn't want him to be involved at all.

During my teenage years I was actually pretty eurosceptic but I think I am going to vote to stay. Better to be in than out,though the EU does need reform.

[Al]

Farage is a loser,why do you think a lot of the out campaigns didn't want him to be involved at all.

During my teenage years I was actually pretty eurosceptic but I think I am going to vote to stay. Better to be in than out,though the EU does need reform.

Perhaps you mean "Better the devil you know". I believe that Farage will prove to be a winner after the referendum.

[adopted scouser]

Cameron has come across as a bit spineless, Thatcher would've murdered them.

[jim mk2]

I'm definitely in the Remain camp. Leaving the world's biggest market and trade bloc is madness and will likely cause economic chaos and job losses. Anyone who thinks we can negotiate trade deals on better terms out of the EU is deluded.

The only upside of a Brexit is the turmoil it will cause in the Tory party, the likely departure of Cameron despite what Johnson says, and the possiblity of an early general election.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I'm all for getting out, the EU can't control its borders and we can't control ours whilst we're part of it. There's a reason the EU is paying Turkey vast sums of money and threatening Greece with being kicked out if they don't get a handle on the migrant flow. Because the problem is a massive one, its not something minor cooked up by right-wing media or whatever.

This tidal wave of "refugees" is actually a tidal wave of economic migrants, and as such there will be no letting up of it regardless of the state of the Middle East. There will always be a desire from the billions of people living in the third world to restart their life in the first. In fact the numbers on the move will just continue to increase as personal wealth in the third world edges en masse towards the level where most people can afford to save up a thousand quid or so to pay traffickers.

We've already seen the short-term effect that a huge influx, the vast majority adult males, has had on Germany. What will the long-term effects be? Stay in Europe and we'll find out first hand.

[JBiz]

If you think that leaving Europe is about migrants - you've essentially fallen hook line and sinker for right wing rhetoric and fear tactics.

The sole responsibility of regulations left to a single party? Many people and businesses, who matter little to those in power will suffer more than ever, with no protection from the EU.

Migrants are a small part of a huge wheel - any debate that's centred around that is ignoring plenty.

[oldjamfan1]

Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, George Galloway and Michael Gove all think we should leave the EU. If that doesn't help you make up your mind, then I don't know what will!!

[Norbert Rassragr]

If we leave I can see any worker's rights that are backed by EU law not being replaced, fewer regulations for the City and so on. I half expect tariffs on British goods to the EU, introduced out of spite, as France and Germany have always hated our awkwardness and scepticism over closer integration.

I am not a fan of what the EU has become (a mess), but I fear an unfettered Tory party more.

[Ribble Rover]

Im impressed the PM has managed to spend the last 9 months negotiating a new deal with Europe, that may save us up to £25m in benefits a year..

Can you not see the fundamental problem with this? It's the fact that we have to go and ask countries like latvia's permission to vote on our benefit rules.....it's a joke and the sooner we're out the better.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If you think that leaving Europe is about migrants - you've essentially fallen hook line and sinker for right wing rhetoric and fear tactics.

The sole responsibility of regulations left to a single party? Many people and businesses, who matter little to those in power will suffer more than ever, with no protection from the EU.

Migrants are a small part of a huge wheel - any debate that's centred around that is ignoring plenty.

I've fallen for jack ****. And if that's the persuasion tactics of the In vote, insult the other side and make them out to be thick, good luck persuading anyone because you've just solidified my vote 10 fold.

[T J Hooker]

I think id vote to leave the eu, not for any political or nationalistic reason its just that im more drawn to the unknown than the known and i like a bit of chaos.

Needless to say that i dont have kids though so im not tethered to taking whatever is perceived as being the safe option due to the natural fear i imagine most parents have in wanting a secure(if very bland and uneventful) future for the offspring.

[K-Hod]

I'm definitely on the in side of the debate. Whilst it's far from ideal, our EU membership affects many things. Leaving would make things more difficult from a trade point of view, and it would make me very uneasy to just leave. To be honest, I think we've gone about it the best possible way in re-negotiating our terms etc.

I'm not bothered about point scoring either, people are free to believe what they like.

[Dean]

I've fallen for jack ****. And if that's the persuasion tactics of the In vote, insult the other side and make them out to be thick, good luck persuading anyone because you've just solidified my vote 10 fold.

If you don't want to be accused of falling it for it, then don't use regurgitated nonsense like "This tidal wave of "refugees" is actually a tidal wave of economic migrants". If you have spent any time reading about the situation (both historical and contemporary) then you would know it's not true.

And as K-Hod says, there are so many parts to this debate. Migration is one of many. Anyone who concentrates solely on that is probably just piggybacking on the debate to repeat tired, old prejudices.

[Al]

I'm definitely on the in side of the debate. Whilst it's far from ideal, our EU membership affects many things. Leaving would make things more difficult from a trade point of view, and it would make me very uneasy to just leave.To be honest, I think we've gone about it the best possible way in re-negotiating our terms etc.

I'm not bothered about point scoring either, people are free to believe what they like.

The renegotiation has not gone far enough. Why on Earth should we pay child allowance for foreign children who do not live in this country?

[Dean]

The renegotiation has not gone far enough. Why on Earth should we pay child allowance for foreign children who do not live in this country?

I agree on that one, I think most people would. It's a tiny matter in the grand scheme of things though. It's certainly not enough of a reason to quit the whole thing.

[Al]

I agree on that one, I think most people would. It's a tiny matter in the grand scheme of things though. It's certainly not enough of a reason to quit the whole thing.

Just one more reason as far as I am concerned. I hate our laws being made in Brussels particularly people going to European courts after British courts have found against them.

[onlyonetugay]

If you think that leaving Europe is about migrants - you've essentially fallen hook line and sinker for right wing rhetoric and fear tactics.

The sole responsibility of regulations left to a single party? Many people and businesses, who matter little to those in power will suffer more than ever, with no protection from the EU.

Migrants are a small part of a huge wheel - any debate that's centred around that is ignoring plenty.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that after democratically electing our government , be that Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat , we need a disparate union of European countries to protect us from ourselves ?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I notice that after a year of deliberately misrepresenting the migrant issue by insisting on labelling them as refugees, the BBC has finally capitulated to statistical evidence and started calling them migrants. Its almost comical their determined lack of impartiality these days.