[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[Baz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35862598

Know he's not everyone's favourite person but a lot of good comments from Blair here. I'm generally one of the first to say lets get boots on the ground to wipe out IS, give the state semi-draconian powers to root out domestic terrorists, proscribe ultra-harsh jail terms to anyone convicted of the slightest terrorist activity. Basically stop worrying about offending people and tackle the problem head on.

But Blair's somewhat convinced me in that article that the only way to kill religious extremism is to win the information war as it were. And I totally agree with him that to do that all political parties need to start flexing their ideological muscles, stop acting as though there's something wrong with western values, and stop tolerating intolerance.

Cameron warned about the dangers of Madrasas last year.The Trojan Horse episode brought the dangers of faith schools into the public forum and its about time a strong call was made to scrap them entirely. Controlling what is said in Mosques/Churches is another level of difficulty but should still be attempted. And then the other major source of the poisonous views that lead to extremism is the parents/families of kids. Unfortunately there's nothing to be done about that in the short term, but in the long-term hearing a different message from everyone else should at least lead to a trend towards tolerance and moderate beliefs.

You can't win this by killing them all, as they aren't going to line up on a battlefield and get obliterated, you can't have policemen with guns on corners stopping everyone with a backpack etc, you are never going to stop a lone-wolf who has made a decision to kill themselves and as many others that they can take out as possible, there has to be another way.

Winning the information war is the key for me, people aren't born as terrorists, so they are driven to it. Ive posted before about education, saying that schools should either follow no religious studies, or cover the full range. However, its the teaching outside schools that worries me far more. For example, I have muslim friends and occasionally you see their comments etc on articles on Facebook, Twitter etc what is scary is not what my friends post, but some of the extremist views being posted, the anti-Israel stuff, the everyone hates Muslims stuff, it's completely biased, twisted or untrue - it really doesn't surprise me how someone young and impressionable could be taken in with that. How do you stop that? Is it Facebook and Twitters responsibility to remove these sometimes very subtle articles? And if they do so, is that then spun as being anti-Islam censorship?

The one thing Islam doesn't have that the other religions do (as far as I can see), is to have a head of the religion. Maybe that's very important, that pretty much anyone can set themselves up as a cleric or leader, and have the same authority as anyone else on what the Qu'ran would say. If there was one leader, they could denounce these attacks, but at present probably 99% would condemn, but 1% be supportive, guess which would get the media coverage?

My thoughts go to anyone affected by what has happened in Brussels, it's terrible.

[LewisF]

Very sad state of affairs. It's disgusting that people STILL in this day and age, think it's acceptable to carry out acts such as this; a very small minority, but one that cannot be tolerated. These disgusting people are a disgrace to the name of humanity, let alone Muslims, and I'm sure that trump and ukip will use this attack to further their (racist) points.

Shocking

[Iceman]

This really shouldn't be happening. Condolences to the family of those who lost their lives

[Audax]

This guy took off after a protester at a Trump rally; the man in the white shirt is the Trump supporter. Dey look like weal racist people.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2016/03/20/tensions-soar-at-trump-immigration-focused-rallies-in-arizona/

The left's hatred never ceases to amaze me and I don't mean that in a bitter way to anyone, but to just say some things, are pretty unbelievable.

[MCMC1875]

The worst attack of this type, 9/11, preceded the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and Guantanamo Bay. The West aren't victims of their own making, they are victims of not being hardline Sunni Muslim, just as the Pakistan army, Nigerian christians, Syrian minority groups, India, China etc etc are. These attacks aren't retaliation, they are the punishment meated out to all who don't follow medieval Islam. Seeing as even the most staunch advocates of a pacifist appeasement approach to the Middle East don't intend to take the UK down the route of reverting to a dark age Saudi Arabia, we'd have been every bit at risk of Islamic extremism now regardless of our foreign policy in modern times.

Are we still selling arms to Saudi Arabia?

[bazza]

Are we still selling arms to Saudi Arabia?

Hit the nail on the head. Why are we selling arms to anyone if we are so angered and saddened when arms are used against us and innocents?

[Audax]

Selling arms to Saudi Arabia was just a new story in the past few months and that practise was defended; I remember that.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/25/david-cameron-brilliant-uk-arms-exports-saudi-arabia-bae

In fact, there were a few such stories.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Hit the nail on the head. Why are we selling arms to anyone if we are so angered and saddened when arms are used against us and innocents?

Hardly the nail on the head, more like another distraction technique to blame anyone and everyone other than the section of society responsible for these attacks and the poisonous religious doctrine they follow. You can't just blame them you see, that's racist. Or if its not racist, it at least gets you kicked out of the leftist intelligentsia, whose reactions to these tragedies are getting more nauseating with each one that passes. I wonder whether we'll get another Stop The War tweet blaming the West in a celebratory tone like we did after Paris. When it happens here (that's a definite when, not if by the way), I hope the criticism is actually focused on the people who've done it instead of this litany of self-recrimination. Its almost as though excuses and empathy are being afforded to this murderous virus on humanity.

[joey_big_nose]

Hardly the nail on the head, more like another distraction technique to blame anyone and everyone other than the section of society responsible for these attacks and the poisonous religious doctrine they follow. You can't just blame them you see, that's racist. Or if its not racist, it at least gets you kicked out of the leftist intelligentsia, whose reactions to these tragedies are getting more nauseating with each one that passes. I wonder whether we'll get another Stop The War tweet blaming the West in a celebratory tone like we did after Paris. When it happens here (that's a definite when, not if by the way), I hope the criticism is actually focused on the people who've done it instead of this litany of self-recrimination. Its almost as though excuses and empathy are being afforded to this murderous virus on humanity.

Its a subtle situation. Clearly it is not just as simple as "these people are murderous idealogues who will kill all in their path" nor is it "these attacks are a product of western interventions in the middle east". The reality is very complex.

What seems straightforward to me is

1) Security efforts need to continue to be improved

2) We need to understand what draws people to commit these acts better and fit our responses to that.

Those two strategies will make us safer imo. Retaliation does not as far as I can see.

[Norbert Rassragr]

By making Saudi Arabia powerful we are allowing them to spread their bone headed extremist Sunni Islam. I bet if this bill to turn all schools into Academies goes through, there will be schools set up by foundations who are ultimately funded by Qatar, or SA in order to indoctrinate Muslim children to their ideology.

[ultrablue]

This is a phenomena created by far more than one policy, or one factor. There are thousands of reasons and actions behind the rise of ISIS. So it will take far more than a single policy, or a simple operation to stop this madness.

What is simple though is the goal of ISIS. Their goal is division. Muslim and non- Muslim, the holy and the infidel.

Governments alone can't stop hateful ideas, armies cannot stop them either.

So we have to start with ourselves. Look at your own behaviour. Dont fear your neighbours, engage with them. Dont avoid them, include them. Confront any hate or doctrine with liberal ideals. You'll find that almost everyone will do the same for you. And take that attitude everyday. As long as we do that, no bomb can change us.

(I can sense Abbey's temples bulging from here, 9 hours in the future. But at least I didnt mention brewing a pot of Earl Grey.)

[Al]

Blame the immigrants. The traditional view of a white, middle class right of centre male.

Conveniently forgetting that many terrorists are home grown.

Or perhaps all dark skinned people with funny clothes and fuzzy hair should be locked up because they look foreign ?

Well it's certainly not the indigenous British population who are terrorists Jim. Who do you think are the perpetrators? Does it matter where they were born? We all know what religion they follow and the more we allow in the bigger the problem.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Its a subtle situation. Clearly it is not just as simple as "these people are murderous idealogues who will kill all in their path" nor is it "these attacks are a product of western interventions in the middle east". The reality is very complex.

What seems straightforward to me is

1) Security efforts need to continue to be improved

2) We need to understand what draws people to commit these acts better and fit our responses to that.

Those two strategies will make us safer imo. Retaliation does not as far as I can see.

How far has massive retaliation got Israel in the Middle East ?

[ultrablue]

Well it's certainly not the indigenous British population who are terrorists Jim. Who do you think are the perpetrators? Does it matter where they were born? We all know what religion they follow and the more we allow in the bigger the problem.

Unbelievable disconnect here Al. Clearly you do think it matters where people are born.

But of course by indigenous people you mean white people.

[Audax]

Nigeria, Cameroon, Chad, Niger, has all this stuff going on with Boko Haram.

Kenya and El Shabaab.

[AllRoverAsia]

I've just watched the ITV documentary 'Exposure - Saudi Arabia Uncovered' which clearly shows that the Saudi regime indoctrinate their young school children to believe that Jews and Christians should all be hunted and killed. A difficult to watch but gripping programme and not for the squeamish. Training future terrorists.

I worked there for a decade in the 70s and 80s and have to admit I liked the place and people I met at that time. The Police and similar were scary though as was going in and out of their airports..........really dealing with any employee of the regime.

[Al]

Unbelievable disconnect here Al. Clearly you do think it matters where people are born.

But of course by indigenous people you mean white people.

Wrong! It does not matter to me where people are born. A Muslim is a Muslim wherever they are from.

Of course the indigenous people are generally white. What is your definition of indigenous?

There are of course Caribbean people who are now well integrated and not suspected to be terrorists.

[K-Hod]

I've just watched the ITV documentary 'Exposure - Saudi Arabia Uncovered' which clearly shows that the Saudi regime indoctrinate their young school children to believe that Jews and Christians should all be hunted and killed. A difficult to watch but gripping programme and not for the squeamish. Training future terrorists.

I worked there for a decade in the 70s and 80s and have to admit I liked the place and people I met at that time. The Police and similar were scary though as was going in and out of their airports..........really dealing with any employee of the regime.

Saudi Arabia is absolutely backwards, and also pretty wealthy. Not a good combination!

[jim mk2]

Wrong! It does not matter to me where people are born. A Muslim is a Muslim wherever they are from.

Of course the indigenous people are generally white. What is your definition of indigenous?

There are of course Caribbean people who are now well integrated and not suspected to be terrorists.

Indigenous Britons are those of Celtic origin in Wales and Cornwall forced to the extremities of these islands by the invading Angles and Saxons (5th century immigrants). Now if you live in Lancs you're more than likely to be of Anglo-Saxon origin and therefore not native to Britain. As the descendant of immigrants don't you think you should be more welcoming to 21st century immigrants Al, or is their skin the wrong colour ?

[ultrablue]

Wrong! It does not matter to me where people are born. A Muslim is a Muslim wherever they are from.

Of course the indigenous people are generally white. What is your definition of indigenous?

There are of course Caribbean people who are now well integrated and not suspected to be terrorists.

So you are talking about religion, not race or lineage. You confused me with the 'indigenous British' line.

As to that second line in bold, it seems to me you are saying:

a) people who follow Islam cannot integrate into British society, unless they give up their religion.

b ) You suspect any and every Muslim could be a terrorist by virtue of their religion.

Of course, tell me if I'm wrong

[Al]

Indigenous Britons are those of Celtic origin in Wales and Cornwall forced to the extremities of these islands by the invading Angles and Saxons (5th century immigrants). Now if you live in Lancs you're more than likely to be of Anglo-Saxon origin and therefore not native to Britain. As the descendant of immigrants don't you think you should be more welcoming to 21st century immigrants Al, or is their skin the wrong colour ?

You post crap. The indigenous population is the one that our forefathers fought 2 world wars to protect. The 5th century is history only. You are the only one who mentioned skin colour as a I said, Caribbean people have integrated well. It is Muslims who want to force us all to follow their customs and employ terrorist methods to do so that I object to.

[Dean]

There are of course Caribbean people who are now well integrated and not suspected to be terrorists.

Neither are Muslims.

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. If even 0.1% of them were a threat, we'd probably all be dead by now.

That's like me saying you are a suspected paedophile because you are white, British and a similar age bracket to Jimmy Saville and Stuart Hall*.

*(before you get offended by that, it's deliberately ludicrous to make a point!)

[Al]

Sorry Dean, as I told you, you are on ignore in case you were replying to me and I have no intention of opening your post to find out. You waste your time if you are replying to me.

[ultrablue]

You post crap. The indigenous population is the one that our forefathers fought 2 world wars to protect. The 5th century is history only. You are the only one who mentioned skin colour as a I said, Caribbean people have integrated well. It is Muslims who want to force us all to follow their customs and employ terrorist methods to do so that I object to. You hardly have a right to an opinion sheltered where you live.

Funny you should mention that:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/02/muslim-soldiers-first-world-war

[Audax]

Actually, a percentage, even if 5% are radicalised; maybe only 2% are radicalised but more percentage points support what the radicals do.

So, if 2% of 1.6 billion are radical, that leaves quite a few.

If there are not radicals out there, why in the world are there maps showing how many Belgians, French, English, Americans, Germans have gone to join ISIS? Even if 500, 700 persons from England have joined ISIS, that's quite a lot.