[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[thenodrog]

Anyway, nice to see Cameron completely change his mind on the issue within 24 hours.

Sad to see he's had to be shamed into doing it though.

On the contrary. Cameron's primary responsibility is to the citizens of this nation.

Croydon has 30,000 on housing list .

They are taking 20 Syriaian families . Where are they going to put them ? Oh yea top of the queue .

Are any of the do goiders on here actually to put a family up at their home ? I bet it's a no .

Chap on the radio yesterday said he would. He has a roomy shed in the garden and a caravan on the drive and would give them a home immediately. Wonder if he'd still be so generous should he ever wish to sell his house with immigrants refusing to move out?

[ABBEY]

Instead of having one of your predictable pops at me would you like to argue why it's in our long term benefit to close our borders?

Do you want to live in a country with plentiful food, power and medical resources or not? Long term as populations grow and resources diminish countries which chose to isolate themselves may suffer the consequences.

What about the lorry drivers getting attacked in France ?

What about sleepers ? What about a shortage of houses already ? The hospitals are full? Places like Aldershot there are no jobs for locals ( I was there a couple of years back) ,

Why can't the British people produce food ? That's an insult to our farmers .

Medically ? So you are saying the British youngsters can't become docs ? That's an insult to our young

What about the people already homeless here and in need ? Why should refugees get housed before them ?

Will wheelton be stopping locals from having a roof for these refugees

Only one do gooder says he will be housing some and that's professional do gooder geldof ...again I ask how many on here will or are you all talk?

[thenodrog]

I don't know how you can post this and mean what you say. Do you read newspapers? This country's press is overwhelmingly right wing, The coverage of the election by the Daily Telegraph, the Sun, the Mail and the Express was nothing short of disgraceful in its personal attacks on Ed Miliband. Even the supposedly independent Independent backed the Tories. The Times, as with all Murdoch publications, backed the Tories, as did the FT. Only the Mirror and the Guardian backed Labour. Most of the BBC's political correspondents have had Conservative party affliliations while the BBC's news agenda during the election consistently took its cue from the Mail. So where is this "vocal left" you are on about except as a figment of your own warped right wing imagination?

Given the current state of labour and the quality of the leadership candidates the British press were spot on. Is Frank Field still an MP? He's about the only labour politician that I would ever have voted for.

I was replying to another piece of nonsense from SKH. Have you anything worthwhile to say ?

His attached map says it all doesn't it? If we must help then let's make sure the refugee camps are well supplied with food and medical supplies. I suggest weapons and military training too with which to destroy isil with. They are the reason for this we are continually being told and most of the migrants that I see are young men.

Just as an aside every interview that I hear from these people is how they thank God that they have managed to get into Europe ..... Well isn't it their God that has persecuted, slaughtered and expelled them from their homeland? They are kept ignorant and brainwashed by a cruel and backward religion.

Be a good move forward for this country to outlaw religious slaughter, islamic education, the wearing of the veil, make cremation compulsory to keep the rivers and seas free from putrefying liquid and subject any immigrants to a 50% tax rate should they find employment. If they can't then compulsory work projects repairing our decaying roads, footpaths and walls for those that don't. They see our way of life as something to be desired so why do they want to move here and recreate the conditions that they are leaving behind here?

Might be interesting to see how many put GB at the top of their preferred destination list then.

[thenodrog]

Alf Garnett? In case you missed it, immigration has net plus to the UK economy, and I think you'll find the NHS couldn't function without immigrants.

.

Absolute rubbish. The NHS functioned quite nicely thank you before the country was a object to mass immigration. It could do so again quite easily.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/09/04/egyptian-billionaire-proposes-buying-island-to-shelter-mideast-refugees/

Egyptian Billionaire wants to buy island from Greece or Italy and make it for the refugees to live in. May sound like a far-fetched idea, maybe there are better ones or maybe it would work.

How about buying and donating a large area of egypt? Plenty of sparsely populated areas right across north africa.

[thenodrog]

Instead of having one of your predictable pops at me would you like to argue why it's in our long term benefit to close our borders?

Do you want to live in a country with plentiful food, power and medical resources or not? Long term as populations grow and resources diminish countries which chose to isolate themselves may suffer the consequences.

Rubbish. A wealthy country will always possess power. Anyway you already stated the we only produce 50% of the food we need and in the next breath you say food is plentiful?!?

[Al]

Close the borders, no more effing immigrants, this country is already overloaded, one day we will be the minority

Exactly what I was trying to say but some lefty mod deleted my post. It was a perfectly legitimate post and a perfectly legitimate worry for the future of the indigenous population of this country but Enoch was ignored too so I am in good company.

[Al]

It seems to me we may have or will reach a point when the UK population becomes too large, unsustainable. However that does not mean we should be closing our borders, it means solutions have to be found to the huge problems the world faces.

Do you comprehend the huge impact of closing our borders to your "effing immigrants"? Much of our society and the life we are privileged to lead is reliant on a workforce of "effing migrants."

Closing our borders could shut us off from at least EU markets for our imports and exports and probably even world markets. EU countries are already pretty irritated by UK government attitudes and our lack of contribution in some areas. If Cameron thinks he can @#/? off the EU and then expect support for his proposed changes he's a fool.

British farming produces approximately 50% of our food requirements. Close the borders and we might find importing our food becomes a problem in the future.

We are forecast to import 70% of our gas requirements by 2020. If this supply was cut how do you propose we keep the lights on?

Approximately 5.5 million British citizens currently live outside the UK. If we closed our borders and other countries retaliate by forcing these people out where do you propose we put these people?

We live in a world and society we helped shape and create. We cannot walk away from the responsibilities centuries of benefitting from people and resources scattered across the world have given our country.

Mass migration of people fleeing war, terror, famine, drought have been taking place in Africa for decades. Other countries, far poorer than the UK, are taking literally millions of refugees. Interesting isn't it that we only really take an interest when the refugees start banging on Europe's door.

For me we have a moral responsibility to help these people in the long and the short term. If the world doesn't solve these issues the population and wealth imbalances will unleash terrible consequences.

So by all means close the borders to your "effing migrants" but from a purely selfish view we might want to consider the consequences. If Britain abandons the EU, the world what makes you think other countries will be interested in us?

Closing the door to "effing migrants" could change or society for the worse in a very short period.

We live in a world, we cannot isolate ourselves for moral, practical and self-interest reasons. Shut the door if you wish but don't complain when the world responds.

Opinion only Paul. No way is the rest of Europe going to refuse to trade with the UK so you can forget that argument.

[Pedro]

So accurate news reporting that shows the reality of war is all part of some conspiracy to get us into war.

I certainly wouldn't use the term 'accurate reporting'. Selective reporting or tactical reporting, definitely. Imagery hits home the easiest and hardest and fear controls the majority of people.

Unfortunately, too many people have spent too long ignoring the facts of war, why many travel to seek asylum and have lost sight of the value of a (foreign) human life. Some idiots need a photo and a headline for them to comprehend it, to ultimately be told what to think. It will be in the forefront of their mind for a while...until a few days time when the front pages and news programmes lead with Miley Cyrus flashing her arse, someone gets a tit out on Big Brother or says something daft or there's a 'Maddie' update.

[Baz]

Absolute rubbish. The NHS functioned quite nicely thank you before the country was a object to mass immigration. It could do so again quite easily..

11% of staff, and 26% of doctors are immigrants.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service

[thenodrog]

Exactly what I was trying to say but some lefty mod deleted my post. It was a perfectly legitimate post and a perfectly legitimate worry for the future of the indigenous population of this country but Enoch was ignored too so I am in good company.

This never gets debated. The legacy that we are leaving for future generations. People will no doubt suggest that I am over reacting but future generations could blame the foolishness of our own generation for the great religious Civil War of the 21st Century.

I am not joking!

11% of staff, and 26% of doctors are immigrants.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service

Only because they are cheaper. We could provide NHS staff from our own. Imagine if some other industries imported cheap labour from the 3rd world at the expense of our own solely to keep costs down? There'd be an outcry.

I suggest rather than defending this policy the Guardian should be denouncing this as a national scandal! It's obviously put's it's own political agenda first wouldn't you say?

[ultrablue]

I certainly wouldn't use the term 'accurate reporting'. Selective reporting or tactical reporting, definitely. Imagery hits home the easiest and hardest and fear controls the majority of people.

Unfortunately, too many people have spent too long ignoring the facts of war, why many travel to seek asylum and have lost sight of the value of a (foreign) human life. Some idiots need a photo and a headline for them to comprehend it, to ultimately be told what to think. It will be in the forefront of their mind for a while...until a few days time when the front pages and news programmes lead with Miley Cyrus flashing her arse, someone gets a tit out on Big Brother or says something daft or there's a 'Maddie' update.

This is all true in my opinion. Unfortunately in the information age it takes something truly shocking for the mass media to report on human strife in the Middle East, and something even more shocking for the general populace to dmand action.

But your original post implied it was a ruse to lead us into war. I would say reports on Syria make our direct involvment even less likely. It's a failed state with no guarentee of a good outcome.

[ultrablue]

This never gets debated. The legacy that we are leaving for future generations. People will no doubt suggest that I am over reacting but future generations could blame the foolishness of our own generation for the great religious Civil War of the 21st Century.

I am not joking!

Fortunately there will never be enough extremists like yourself for this to happen. But you'll keep trying I'm sure.

[Al]

Fortunately there will never be enough extremists like yourself for this to happen. But you'll keep trying I'm sure.

It's to be debated whether it is Theno or Ultrablue that is the extremist. Easy to criticise the UK from half way across the world.

[Baz]

Only because they are cheaper. We could provide NHS staff from our own. Imagine if some other industries imported cheap labour from the 3rd world at the expense of our own solely to keep costs down? There'd be an outcry.

I suggest rather than defending this policy the Guardian should be denouncing this as a national scandal! It's obviously put's it's own political agenda first wouldn't you say?

NHS staff are on salary grading schemes so foreign doctors are the same rate as UK doctors.

There just aren't enough uk doctors to go around.

There is a crisis in recruitment of GPs, as we cannot fill even the training places. Maybe the government needs to re-assess the levels of debt a doctor would get in order to qualify, and offer to pay some / all their fees if the committed to working in the nhs for a minimum of 10 years after qualification?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/gp-trainers-warn-of-doctor-shortages-1580118.html

[jim mk2]

This never gets debated. The legacy that we are leaving for future generations. People will no doubt suggest that I am over reacting but future generations could blame the foolishness of our own generation for the great religious Civil War of the 21st Century.

I am not joking!

Only because they are cheaper. We could provide NHS staff from our own. Imagine if some other industries imported cheap labour from the 3rd world at the expense of our own solely to keep costs down? There'd be an outcry.

I suggest rather than defending this policy the Guardian should be denouncing this as a national scandal! It's obviously put's it's own political agenda first wouldn't you say?

Nearly every industry you can think employs cheap labour from abroad - look at catering, hotels, leisure, food production and processing, among many others. All of them employ migrants so they can pay them less than indigenous workers. And there is an outcry - in particular from the trade unions. It is also one of the few planks of Ukip policy. Mass immigration is in fact a right wing policy par excellence because it keeps employers costs down and allows the owners to pay themselves ever higher salaries. I'm surprised the agricultural and animal feed stuff firms haven't done the same, wouldn't you say ?

[thenodrog]

Fortunately there will never be enough extremists like yourself for this to happen. But you'll keep trying I'm sure.

Only a fool of the highest order will not heed the lessons of history.

[Mike E]

Four points:

1. This is probably the first time I have responded to one of your posts.

2. I don't respond because you give the appearance of knowing nothing about anything at all

3. The above is a prime example. Do some research on the history of British press ownership.

4. This is the last time I respond to one of your posts.

Well you did once threaten to 'take legal action' against me despite what I said occurred definitely occurring according to myself, the person whose child you targeted and admin at the time.

So you've definitely responded to me before. You covered your face in egg last time as well. No wonder you can't respond to people in a reasonable manner, when you have a nasty habit of humiliating yourself when challenged.

Anyway...

Tell me what I typed that was wrong (you know, like sensible debaters do). Or are you worried about that egg becoming omelette?

[thenodrog]

Nearly every industry you can think employs cheap labour from abroad - look at catering, hotels, leisure, food production and processing, among many others. All of them employ migrants so they can pay them less than indigenous workers.

Haven't you heard of the national minimum wage?

[Paul]

What about the lorry drivers getting attacked in France ?

What about sleepers ? What about a shortage of houses already ? The hospitals are full? Places like Aldershot there are no jobs for locals ( I was there a couple of years back) ,

Why can't the British people produce food ? That's an insult to our farmers .

Medically ? So you are saying the British youngsters can't become docs ? That's an insult to our young

What about the people already homeless here and in need ? Why should refugees get housed before them ?

Will wheelton be stopping locals from having a roof for these refugees

Only one do gooder says he will be housing some and that's professional do gooder geldof ...again I ask how many on here will or are you all talk?

Well i tried quoting and responding to the individual questions but it didn't work. So lets try again. Nothing you refer to above is the fault of migrants or refugees. keep in mind the EU appears to want the UK to take 18,000 people

Clearly attacking anyone, lorry driver or otherwise, is wrong. I don't defend it.

Sleepers? I would imagine potential terrorists would chose more discreet routes in to the UK than in throungs of people subject to security checks at any moment.

Our housing shortages result from several factors; Tory sell off of the social housing stock, the ridiculous levels of house price inflation, failure by successive governments to invest adequately in our housing stock.

I'm not sure our hospitals are full but I'll take your word for it. If the NHS cannot provide adequate facilities this is another question for government and investment.

If you look closely you will find there are thousands of job vacancies filled by EU workers. Look at the type of work and ask yourself why local people aren't doing it? I don't know why but it appears many British people don't want to do the work many EU migrants are happy to do. That is the fault of the people who won't do the work.

The insult to British agriculture is our unwillingness to pay the real price for food. It's the NFU who are calling for change and it is a simple fact we do import 50% of our food. If you have deep concern for British agriculture I hope, like me, you pay £1/litre for your milk, buy your meat, chicken, eggs and some vegetables from your local producer. It costs more, supports local business and tastes better. BTW finding local people prepared to cut cabbage at daybreak is very difficult.

Our homeless? Yes of course charity begins at home and I would fully support any government which had the foresight to make longterm investment in housing, infrastructure etc. Problem is all of them look to the short term and the next election result.

As for taking in refugees? I don't know about Wheelton as I don't live there and don't know anyone well enough who does. Would we take in someone? I don't know but I think we'd consider it

One last point for you ABBEY. Ask a Berliner how he/she feels about the Young British people moving to the city. Driving up house prices and, I presume, working locally. You'll find the response isn't very polite.

[Paul]

Opinion only Paul. No way is the rest of Europe going to refuse to trade with the UK so you can forget that argument.

Quite right Al it is opinion only. I have always understood debate is about opinions? Perhaps not. If we do chose to isolate ourselves from Europe, and I recall you recently told us we should forget trade with Europe and concentrate on New Zealand, Australia and the USA on the basis they all speak English, can you explain why Europe should give two hoots about the UK in a time of crisis?

[Paul]

Rubbish. A wealthy country will always possess power. Anyway you already stated the we only produce 50% of the food we need and in the next breath you say food is plentiful?!?

As you are more than capable of understanding I was talking about longterm consequences of an isolationist policy. If as a country we chose to cut ourselves off from Europe by refusing to help with this crisis and close our borders why, in the longterm, should Europe care about us?

In regard to the food point there was a question mark at the end of the sentence. It makes a difference to the point. If, in the future we can't import food for political or economic reasons, we face a problem. Sooner or later someone in Africa or other developing areas is going to ask the question - is it better to produce mangetout and roses for Britain and Europe or feed our own people?

[jim mk2]

Haven't you heard of the national minimum wage?

Irrelevant in the context of your previous post.

[Al]

NHS staff are on salary grading schemes so foreign doctors are the same rate as UK doctors.

There just aren't enough uk doctors to go around.

There is a crisis in recruitment of GPs, as we cannot fill even the training places. Maybe the government needs to re-assess the levels of debt a doctor would get in order to qualify, and offer to pay some / all their fees if the committed to working in the nhs for a minimum of 10 years after qualification?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/gp-trainers-warn-of-doctor-shortages-1580118.html

More likely the British qualifiers either go into private practice or go abroad to get the richer rewards. The NHS is stuck with the ones who are prepared to work for less and foreigners.

Quite right Al it is opinion only. I have always understood debate is about opinions? Perhaps not. If we do chose to isolate ourselves from Europe, and I recall you recently told us we should forget trade with Europe and concentrate on New Zealand, Australia and the USA on the basis they all speak English, can you explain why Europe should give two hoots about the UK in a time of crisis?

Not what I said at all but however I phrased it I meant we should include the rest of the world and not rely on Europe for trade. I would have thought that was logical. The rest of Europe don't give two hoots about us now and I don't give two hoots about them. You trade because you want what each other has to offer.

[ABBEY]

Fortunately there will never be enough extremists like yourself for this to happen. But you'll keep trying I'm sure.

Why did mine and als post get removed but this is allowed . I gave an opinion yet gord being accused of being an extremist is allowed just as Al was accused of being of racist .

Paul I will have a £ 50 charity bet with you .

I say you won't have any Syrian families living with you by November

[Baz]

More likely the British qualifiers either go into private practice or go abroad to get the richer rewards. The NHS is stuck with the ones who are prepared to work for less and foreigners.

In which case they are needed, glad you agree Theno is wrong.